Let me explain….I’m at the job at around 7:30….work through lunch because I don’t want to stop to pick up all the tools to go somewhere then come back to resetup. Sometimes eat at the job. Work until 4:30-5:00. Come home clean up and then return phone calls, respond to emails, do paperworrk, etc and then its 10:00-11:00 at night! Do it on weekends too!
Sound familiar? I know its does as many of you do it too.
Question is, when do you stop? I LOVE working for myself and enjoy what I get out of it but how long can you keep up this rate? Does it ever end? What makes it end? Hiring someone? Been doing it for years and as I said love it, but just starting to feel like my job is ME and thats it.
How do you know when to slow down withouit fearing it will hurt the business?
All work and no play makes Mike a dull boy but no work and too much play prevents him from playing at all!
Mike
Replies
How do you know when to slow down withouit fearing it will hurt the business?
You have to slow down on purpose before you have to. IOW, make a decision and plan ahead.
Can you be satisfied with less money or can you streamline the business side so it takes less time and be satisfied with the same money?
Or: Can you be content hiring a crew, working the trades less or not at all and the business more. Possibly make more money.
Each method requires a different plan.
Finally, you can wait until life forces you to slow down, make less money and wing it.
SamT
Praise the Corporation, for the Corporations' highest concern is the well being of the public.
Mike its personal choices.
For my parents it was a way of life and many others.
I follow the same path. But that doesnt make it right .
Im sure you are being rewarded too by working . You will also miss a lot working .
I look to the needs of it and make choices. There used to be days I was rained out but not anymore . Theres always work to do. DW lives the same way and we poke each other into working most every day. She woke me up yesterday and I woke her up today. The whole house wanted to sleep. Her , the kid nor the dog responded this morning to my wake up call so I went out to eat beakfast and plan the day. Its supposed to rain all day to day but it hasnt yet rained a drop. I got home with the plan to run my backhoe but as I got through the door DW said Tim phone ! Im going to the mountain to look at some land Ive been waiting on and this morning is the right time with the neighbor gone ![Church] Rent was due Friday and Ive got one missing . Ill have to go collecting this afternoon. I still want to run the tractor .
Tim
The property was atop the mountain on the West side . I havent been over there in a few years . It was a 20 mile drive through some georgous country.
I thought I would take the boy as DW was busy doing her thing. Anyway we had a good visit . We stopped at the country store over there and he ate his fill. I got to visit with a friend of mine for about an hour that had turned me on to the property . I stopped on the way out to see my Brother . Ive never went to see him at his house and rarely see him. TJ urged me to turn left and do it other wise I would not have Im afraid . He wasnt home but I saw hes doing pretty good finacially. Hes got a nice place on top of the mountain top and he loves it .
The property was a diamond in the rough. Much more than I had expected and a lot less too. A house had burned to the ground there and it left a horrible mess . It had burned up kids toys and that made me feel really bad. It was the site of a very nice home site that had ended in ruins where the family lost everything . I had the same feelings finding a dead person. The rubble was everywhere .
The property had huge shade trees in the front yard people would pay money to have them. They were awsome . The gift of the trip came in the view . [sorry I wasnt carrying the camera guys] On a scale of 1 to 10 it was a solid 7 and those views are hard to come by buying an acre. I think I can improve the view by clearing some and It will raise to an 8.
The price is 5,000 with a well and septic about 10 yrs old on site . Thats worth 4,000 at todays prices so the rest is 1,000 for the land . Ill buy it full price if the people dont back out or its sold to someone else first. I apraised it cleaned up for 20,000. Still its prospecting .
I thought about your thread most of the way up there and back. I really enjoyed the trip and thats what I do for a living so yes it was work. I jumped a renters butt on the way back too . Told them to have my money this afternoon or else and left orders to mow the yard or be charged for me doing it .
I guess Ill have to ask how much you enjoy your work? Id rather been up there this morning than any where else at that time and Im still drooling to get on the back hoe . I havent seen it all week long! Monday Im back on the fire house getting black. Ive even enjoyed that . I guess to say I really love what I do. I still dig it and I do several different things to spice it up. I dont know what else I would do if I took off . Ive got three atvs at the cabin and a boat at the marina . I work instead because I want to.
Tim
Two things that have worked for me, starting at about the same stage that you're at.
First, I took Sunday off...period. That was my day to do something...or nothing...that would take me far away from work, to refresh my mind and spirit.
Second, I got into adventure sports that I'd always dreamed of doing...motorcycle riding and racing, flying, skiing, reef diving, traveling to special places. I had a mental list of such things, one that I'd started when I was just out of high school, and I kept adding to it as new challenges presented themselves. The only item yet to do is sky diving.
As absorbing as work can be, we need something adventuresome to keep us alive and free. And we need some dedicated time to persue those new adventures.
Mike,
It seems your identity is not in question, you are what you do...
I can identify, I had the 17 hour work day going as well, Designed all we built, did all the record keeping, and built 2 houses for myself on weekends and nights....
To improve the design side I returned to school for an architecture degree...
I was really getting good....
The divorce cost alot in terms of property seperation (and the IRA), the relationship didn't have much depth left to lose though...
The youngest will graduate from college in mid May, the former wife (and my replacement) are retired, no more work, travel a fair amount, seem to enjoy life.
I work a leisurely lifestyle now. A 10 hour day is average, I commute to the next state on a weekly basis, return Fridays to a pretty housemate for the weekend.
You ARE what you do.
Are you liking yourself enough to be who you are being even if there are BIG changes in your surroundings......
Just be sure of that and everything else will work itself out....
SolarSam
P.S. It could be worse, you could have been a hedge fund broker, my client lost $6.5million in one day the first week I was there last month....
Mike
RAISE your prices! If you're so busy that you can't have any time for a "normal" life (whatever that is), then raise your prices by 10,15,25% until you're getting just enough work to keep you busy but also that you have enough time to re-charge.
Nothing worse than working 24/7 for peanuts (if that's the case).
Jay
I'd start with your budget. Try a book by Dave Ramsey "The total money makeover".
Its a easy read. We've found that when we follow a budget we are not working to just make ends meet each pay period. When you have a spending plan, you not so worried about whether you have the money each month tp pay bills.
Then listen to the Song "Cats in the Cradle" then decide what is more important when you lok out the window at your kids.
"Then listen to the Song "Cats in the Cradle" then decide what is more important when you lok out the window at your kids"
Funny, I've got that song on the CD player in my shop (the Ugly Kid Joe version). It really does work. :)
Amazing how whenever that song comes on when I'm working up there when I shouldn't be, I close the shop down pretty quick and head for the swingset with the kids.
Mike
Mike,
When I first opened up, I thought I had to do it all. After a couple years, things started to fall a little behind. I hired part time office help. Kept me off the phone so I could do other things that were more important. Big help. Filing actually got done. Things got put away where they belonged. As time went on, I needed more help but it was still a good thing. Kept delegating - gave her the checkbook and told her to pay the bills. (I always okayed which ones got paid and I signed the checks.) Teach them what needs to be done, especially the simple and time consuming stuff.
In the field, I've used subs, part-timers, even family. Sometimes, it's just more than one person can handle. Don't be afraid to surrender some control.
Since I've moved to VA, I've really tried to go back to a five day week. I've spent most of my adult life working 6 or 7. Today, on my day off, I did yard work, but it was for a shed I'm building for myself. Remember, you will never get the time back once it's gone. If you spend all your time working, it better be fun. That's what you are going to be looking back at in 30 years.
Don K.
I seem to got through stages. Business grows, I run my butt off, hire a guy and suddenly I have some free time. Business grows, I run my butt off, hire a guy, suddenly I have some free time again.
Anyway before my wife died I did exactly what you are doing except I stopped at 7PM. Now some days I had to go a little longer because of a sales call late but every other day 7PM was it. On Saturdays I would stay in the office till noon or 1PM then take her to lunch and shopping or such. You just have to make yourself do it. And everything still gets done, you just get better at it. DanT
I'm feeling what you're feeling, especially this weekend. Ironically all that I do is for my family and they everything they can to make it harder to do. Right now I have two estimates to complete, a house almost ready that for some reason seems repel subs (the only one on time was the plumber), my wife works part time as a nurse on midnights and of course she is working an extra shift this weekend.
I'm literally on the verge of going over the edge this weekend. As I write this i'm waiting for a call from my floor guy (who's two weeks late) so I can go let him in my house so he can get going. I've got a guy that wants me to do his bathroom and two rooms of raised panel wainscoting (and he wants it yesterday of course). This is great, except that i'm so close to finishing my rental that it would be insane to leave right now and not finish.
I can see here that i'm now ranting and have actually forgotten tha original question. Thanks for listening.
You either run your business, or it runs you. Make choices consistant with how you want to live. Like a wise person once said "this is not a practice life".Remodeling contractor who once visited the Glass City.
We all have done it though sometimes I have to kick myself to slow down. When I'm at home between jobs I'm actually a real slug at heart. I can be in the middle of doing something and literally drop evrything where I stand and go for a coffee with a buddy but if I'm paid to work then I work from morning to night and eat on the run. I used to live and work in cottage country and lots of times I would be screaming down a road just thinking of the job and then I would think "Whoa! slow down, people drive hundreds of miles to see this place and I'm taking it for granted" It would work..............for awhile, but at least it worked. I would also say to myself " there are only 60 minutes in an hour and I can't do any more than that" or I would say "after 9 hours, that's it, I'm going home regardless of what I'm doing".
I've also learned to say "no" to quite a few things. Took a long time to learn that word and I found the consequences were no where near as bad as I thought and the benefits were great.
My system works, when I use it.
roger
i used to work those production hours
then i incorporated and started treating myself as just another hourly employee..
now , if i'm working on the job, come 3:30 my guys go home and i go to the office
i still spend too much time at work..but it ain't pounding nails
That's the great thing about being self employed. You only have to work half days.
Even better, you get to pick which 12 hours you are going to work.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Damn, guys...those were all excellent replies...Thanks!
I think what my problem (OK, its not a problem but a concern) is that most of the folks I work for I somehow know or get to know rather quickly and become kind of friends with. I then take their job personally and since I do much of my own work on the projects (we're still too small to hire anyone aside from the subs we have to due to licensing) I worry about them being 100% satisified with the product, the time frame and keeping them informed. I'm also doing consulting at the same time with a state-wide firm and trying to keep them 100% happy as well and not saying No to any requests for travel, etc.
It seems I am keeping everyone happy aside from myself. I guess I need to find out how much I can reduce my concern for keeping others happy and raise my own?
Its just one of those things where I try to return all calls immediately the same day and all emails as well and thats what leads to the long hours.
Do any of you guys that swing a hammer on your jobs set aside one specific day each week for just paperwork and office stuff?
And yeah, I am guilty of working today (Sunday) getting some millwork ready for a job tomorrow. Urgh, I have to rethink some things.
But thanks for all the great replies!!!
Mike
Mike,
In response to the last part, I have tried doing a one day a week for paperwork thing. I was never able to get it set in stone. One thing or another always kicked me off schedule.
I have started spending an hour or two first thing in the morning and an hour at the end of the day to do paperwork. The key to be able to do that is to make sure I avoid Breaktime and focus on the task at hand. I have also subbed out my bookkeeping and payroll. I pay $500/month for those services-very helpful. I find if I keep up with all the paper a little each day, 30 minutes is the most I need and then focus the other office time on phone calls and management. It is still a twelve hour day, but I get started at 5 am and wrap up by 4 or 5 pm so I can spend the remainder of the day with my all my girls. When my first daughter came into this world, I just about lost it on the highway when "Cat in the Cradle" came on the radio. My father worked hard every day but still managed to make it to all my hockey games and baseball games as kid. I know I want to see my daughters grow up-don't want to miss a minute if I don't have to.
My biggest challenge is doing design work. I need to be "in the mood" and have to strike when the iron is hot.
Im going to make a guess here .
Seems to me by your posts you are in a catch 22 with your business . Theres probably a better word for it or name for the condition. Ill explain when I became involved with what I call that .
1 rental is nothing . 3 rentals is a pain in the butt . That esculated until I got 8 and then it was a migraine to make a living and tend to those rentals . That was the catch 22. Those rentals didnt make a living because I owed for them. So I was still trying to make a living working . There wasnt enough of me to go around or enough time . I fixed it by buying more and and making them pay more . I made better deals which improved bottom line . I slacked the public part time till I phased working for them out . I dont work for the public anymore trade wise.
I heard a painter tell another one when I was young that it took 5 painters to make him a living . He didnt do any painting himself but worked an office from his truck. Somwhere in that process he was in a catch 22 till he made that transition.
A friend of mine is a builder . He has about 5 jobs going as not all are new ones . He picked up a hammer the other day and three guys on his crew drew their picture cameras . He doesnt wear a nail apron. He doesnt do any physical work anymore but he trained his foreman wearing a nail apron. It was interrestting what he told me so put value on it where you will.
He told me when he was working all the time he kept running out of work . He made a bad manager and he didnt return all phone calls at night because he was all in when he got home framing amoung other things that tired him out . He made 42,000 the last year he did everything as a bottom line profit . He changed to what hes doing now and this is his third year not working physically. He told me hes making "around" 76,000. I dont know if its true but hes living better and I know that .
Weve talked about this catch 22 many times here on breaktime . I believe this is where there are so many failures . This is the hump of all humps in a trade carreer.
I look at it like this ; We all started out working for someone as an employee and several here still do . Thats not a bad idea btw. We learn a trade or several of them and we want more money for what we do. Everyone says , boy, you need to go out on your own! Go West young man , theres gold in them ther hills . So we strike out with out a clue of what being a business man is about and we didnt take the time to get trained in the subject. We sorta got pushed into business when we werent trained. The first hump is to realize its a business not a trade anymore . When we make that transition we look at it differently. The problem with trades is it holds prideful people and they first cared about their work. I beleive they have to learn to love money more . Many dont make that transition. If they dont do it they arent really business men. They are tradesman in business. Some learn to do both and love what they do while making money to boot.
We werent the first ones to travel this trail of tears . There have been many before us . Much more successful than we are and the success doesnt seem to stop with some . I as many others here have read about them. Two things being noteable in this discussion;
They manage their company in a way that doesnt take their personal time . Courses are taught on hands free business where it can free the owner up to secure more business deals for if it doesnt grow we can get cooked in the squat like bisquits that never rose in the pan.. Weve got this little skillet and we only keep fish that will fit in it . We become fish in a small pond and never seem to get bigger while we also dont thrive.
So one thing is to hire people that can do what we can for a lesser amount and manage the work.
The next thing would be hire a person to manage them.
If you read any good book on the subject winners surround themselves with winners . Anyway you want to say it , they have some good folks working with them. If they dont do that how can they get bigger ?
I took a different route so Im not the preacher on this subject but I know its real . Its basic common sense to a growing business .
Tim
<So, how do you guys "stop working"?>
Get injured.
Forrest
How do you know when to slow down>>>>>>>>>>
When you start asking yourself these kinds of questions.
There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
Hey Mike,
May sound simple enough in theory....a bit harder to realize in actuality....but it all comes down to prioritizing.
Ask yourself what is/are the most important thing(s) to you.
For myself, money is pretty far down on the list. Obviously though, a necessary evil.
I've come to the realization that I will never be rich doing this for a living. I could live a bit more comfortably if I put in the extra time......but that is time away from the things that are truly important to me.
That said, I work five days a week. Not set in stone....but pretty darn close. If I do any work on weekends, its meeting with clients. On my time.
Weekdays, I'm done in time to sit down with my family for dinner.
I'll do paperwork in the evenings, but not until the kids are in bed and homework is done.
I'm sure that not "banging it out", or not being the first to return an estimate to a client has cost me jobs over the years......but I honestly don't care.
My customers appreciate the effort and attention I show them when I'm "on the clock".....and have come to understand that I'm not the guy to call for those last minute, squeaze me in, projects.
May not be for everyone, but it works for me.
Best of luck.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Mike,
Been there done that. If you don't plan something at night or on the weekend the grind won't stop. I too love carpentry but throw in a golf league, bowling, dinner out something else you are interested in there is no reason to quit.
i feel for you been on the merry go round for a long time, Get work do it get more work hire help , babysit, try to keep enough work to keep crew busy, get enough, crew leaves, right now im in a doitmeself mode, I cannot call back everybody that calls anymore unless i have already worked for them, I woke up and the kids have grown up and im 54, Would like some of that time back, My dentist takes Wednesday off plus the weekends, He says he catches up on office work stuff at home etc, I have been trying to do this for 4 years but still to busy
I have to admit I am pleasantly surprised by the replies. Not one person said, "if you don't bust your tail, you won't make it". Which unfortunately is how I often feel. We don't have any kids but I do still need to make some fun time as 6-7 day weeks are wearing on me and quite honestly, I'm not making the money to show its worth it.
I guess I am just afraid of failing and if it would happen, wouldn't want anyone to say its because I didn't try hard enough.
Hey Mike, glad to see its going better for you work wise. Like Jay said, maybe if you can increase your price a little it would work out better for you.
One guy I know did this in increments of 5% at a time till he got where he needed to be. One that let him work for what he was worth and he could still have some free time.