I’m thinking strongly about buying SoftPlan and getting into the plan drawing business. And I have 2 questions.
First – Is the training CD they offer a good investment? It kind of annoys me that they want to sell you software that costs over a thousand bucks, then want you to pay $145 for a training CD.
But if I buy the software I have to be able to use it. I’ve used SoftPlan a little in the past, but not a great deal.
.
Second – For those of you who draw plans – What kind of large format printer would you recommend? I was thinking about an HP Designjet 130, as I’ve had good luck with HP printers in the past. But I’m open to suggestions.
Thanks fer any thoughts you can offer.
Q: Why do female black widow spiders kill their males after mating?
A: To stop the snoring before it starts.
Replies
Included tutorials and books have been adequate for me since 1997.
If you buy, join Splash, an exclusive SP user forum. There you will get more help than you will need, and better answers to your questions.
I have owned the full version since 1997, and currently use V13.
I use an HP Designjet 110 plus nr. I think the plus nr designates roller feed, which I highly recommend.
If they ahve a buyer special deal on SP Review, you should consider purchase as it allows you to send SP drawings to your clints for their review, mark-up and noting. You purchase review, which enables your clients to download the free Homeowner software for their part.
Another trick is to download a pdf viewer / publisher. Without complicatiing the matter I have had success using CutePdf, a free dowload that installs as a printer, converting your SP drawings to pdf for client review. I have also used edrawings a free downlaod from Solid Works. It also enables clients to view the drawiings. Neither of these allow clients mark-up and notes as does SP Review.
I've used the "client viewer" version of softplan's software, and from this end I'd say it sucks. It's hard to use and hard to get anything to print out. Almost like they designed it to be annoying.I also use a freeware version of PDF software to send stuff to clients. It'd much better than the softplan thingy. Most folks seem to already have that installed on their computers. I thought about the roller feed option on the printer. But it adds several hundred dollars to the price tag, so I think I'll skip it. I won't be printing large quantities of stuff. I think I can stand to hand feed the thing. I was aware that the splash forum was out there. Is it free, or by paid subscription only? I'm sure it would be a good resource, just like BT.
Cheops' Law: Nothing EVER gets built on schedule or within budget.
So, you going to be drawing spec houses? :)
I use Chief Architect and print on a HP wide format printer. It does everything from postcard to 11x17 (or maybe 12x18). For D-size plots I email it to a plotting service. But then maybe you don't have a plotting service close by.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
"So, you going to be drawing spec houses?"
There's always one smart-a$$ in the bunch.
There's only one guy in town who draws prints. He's a jerk and does a lousy job. So at the moment there isn't much competition.
"...maybe you don't have a plotting service close by."
Nothing within an hour's drive. One of the downsides to small town life.
I've been asking around to see if anyone locally would print out stuff for hire, but no luck yet.
Change is as constant as the restless sea.
It seems that SP Review may have been imporoved as there is lots of success reported on Splash.
Splash is now free to SP users.
I too have had success with a pdf viewer / publisher.
Boss,
I've been using Softplan since 1993. I currently use version 11 but will probably upgrade soon to v13. I use an HP Designjet 430 plotter that I've had good luck with. I'm self taught on the software. The included tutorials are OK and I even attended a training session years ago. I'd recommend a training session over a CD. I find that I learn better in a classroom situation where I can ask questions and be hands on.
I use the PDF995 that you suggested and have been very happy with. I've even emailed to clients and it worked well. I checked out SPLASH before for the free trial period, but I'm too tight to pay the annual or monthly membership fee.
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
I've used an HP 430 before - Didn't know they still made them. But that would be a good option. I'm looking for pricing on it now. If the 600 DPI tight enough for plans? Or do you wish you had something finer, like 1200 DPI?
By working faithfully eight hours a day you may eventually get to work twelve hours a day. [Robert Frost]
boss,
Google the hp 110 plus. It's a great printer for the price (around a grand), and will do color. I also have the 430 (obsolete now?), and the 110 is a much faster unit (more memory).
Most software companies will third party the tutorials, so your stuck with the price they charge. Some include on the disc, but it's a pain over having a physical book you can leaf through.
Good luck with the plan biz.
boss, as you know , i use Chief..vs. 10
my printer is an HP 500 -24
so i can do 24 x 36 prints ( or 24 x 150' prints if i want )
i usually print all our plans at 18 x 24.. i like working with that size on the jobs... most guys sell prints at 24x36....
the HP500 is very economical in ink use & printer heads.. i'm still on my original printer heads ( $2700 in 2001)..
and the ink seems to last a long time... i think i'm on my 3d set of tanks.. i buy all of my ink, printheads & paper from Reprint , which caters to schools...
the ability to print in color is a great leap forward in terms of marketing and graphically .. you can differentiate between different types of wall and different materials with color.. so the prints are a lot easier to read
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I think the 430 is now obsolete. The 110 appears to be the replacement. Can still get 430's on ebay or other sources. I think the 110 is about the same money so you may as well look that way. I've never had an issue with the dpi. Works for me.
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
http://www.securemart.com had the best price when I bought my 110 plus nr.
I am a Splah member and do not pay anything.
I remember when I first started usinjg Splash there were some fees but I think they have eliminated.
I'll have to check into that. I wanted to "join the group" but I don't need support very often and it wasn't worth the fees to me. If it's free, I'm in.
Thanks,John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Do you get pop-ups with pdf995? I was told that by Splash members so I downloaded and use CutePdf (free download). It has worked well so far, with no ads or pop-ups.
I've used pdf995. My memory is that a po-up sits in your face for the few seconds it takes for the print toi be saved as a pdf. Then it goes aweay. By time you are ready to print, it is time to sit back and roll your neck around to relax anyhow. Then the pop-up is gone.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I have PDF995 and another called PrimoPDF. The latter does the exact same job and has no popups or other screen garbage.
Half the time, the pop-ups don't load and usually when they pop up, it's done and I close them. I tried another PDF printer that was suggested on a previous discussion, and I didn't like it. PDF995 works for me.John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
"Do you get pop-ups with pdf995?"
What I get isn't a popup. It loads an advertisement in my default browser.
That can be annoying, but I've learned to plan for it. I'll open a new tab in Netscape, then print out what I need to print. Once the new tab in Netscape starts loading the ad I just close it. That way I don't lose my place on BT.
(-:
A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight and understanding [Marshall McLuhan]
I think a lot would depend on your learning style when it comes to what resource you use for training. I am good at following out the step by step tutorial right from the book and elaborating and experimenting while in that mode. I also do pretty good picking things up at Splash. ( Boss, Splash used to be $75bucks when it was independent useers forum, but SP took up the reins and now makes it available free to registered users. You can learn about anything from the power users there.)I found the training class I atteneded - an intermediate right after I bought the v11 I think - to be a waaste of time for me, but that was because the majority of users there seemed to me to be guys who should have been in a beginners calss based on the questions they asked and the familiarity with product that they showed. So the class was sloooooow for me. I also noted that one suggestion for a tricky detail they adressed was from a suggestion I had made at Splash - so there I was learning second-hand from myself, and paying for it.But believe me, that is the closest to a complaint I have had about anything to do with SP.It is my observation that the people who have not been happy with SP are the guys who are not willing to be patient and invest the time to learn how to use it. It is far more user freindly than ACAD and commands or processes are designed to work the way a builder thinks rather than like a techie.
Splash is full of dozens of guys who have migrated to SP from ACAD or Chief and swear they would never go back.
The other handicap tpo learning any CAD system is that once you know one product and its commands, you confuse yourself trying to switch to another one. That impedes the learning process.So knowing your own learning style and basis is important to know how to train on SP. I'm thinking that for Boss, if he can link up with one of the big guys on Splash who offer training sessions - in person or via phone - for an immersion weekend or day, it would be a fantastic way to get a leg up on the program.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for your thoughts - I was hoping you would chime in. I've been to those day-long training session for software also. I know it can be frustrating to be held back by slow users. But every time I've gone to something like that, I've come away with SOMETHING. It seems there's always a couple of things that come up that I didn't know about. Of course - Every time I went to one of those things, I was getting paid to do so. That makes the situation a bit different.You're definitely right that using 2 different programs with different commands can be confusing. Everyone I've tried to train in our software who's used atuocad before gets really frustrated. (People often assume that we use autocad to design trusses, but it's not even close)I learn by poking buttons and DOING soemthing, not reading. So I hopeI can figure it out on my own.
Humor is the affectionate communication of insight [Leo Rosten]
I learn by poking buttons and DOING soemthing, not reading. So I hopeI can figure it out on my own.
Man Boss, that seems like the slow route! (for me anyway). At the very least I would recommend a good set of tutorials (maybe someone here will sell used on the cheap).
The cad program I use allows me to create a pdf thru the print/plot menu. When an instance comes up that I need to create a pdf from a different application I use the free pdf maker from plotsoft. Works excellent, no pop ups, watermarks, etc. Works great for making pdf's out of my picture files too.
The pdf thing is not endemic to a CAD program, tho some might include a version of a pdf printer. I have the original Adobe pdf creator too - foget which version. But the point I make is that the pdf is in the printers folder of your PC so once installed, you can choose to print to pdf instead of print to HP9650 or whatever.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If you will be coming to Tipifest, I can bring mine along.I'm even thinking about getting a laptop
Shhhh - don't let Carole hear me say that.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Tipifest is out of the question for me. That's my folk's 50th wedding anniversary, and I think that takes priority.
The lottery:
Where millions of stupid people make one stupid person look smart.
Off topic, but since you brought it up, I was just at the Dell site. You can get a refurbished D610, 1 GB RAM, 80 GB hard drive, CD/RW DVD drive, built in wireless, for $850 and I think free shipping. Some others were $799, but I didn't check what the difference was.I have the predecessor, the D600 and love it. It's about the lightest full featured notebook I've found, meaning it has a built in drive bay. To get lighter, you have to give up the drive bay and move down to a 12" screen. And I paid about $1600 for mine.
BTW, better tie your hat down. Going from v11 to V.13 is going to be like jumping from a biplane to a supersonic jet! Just going eleven to twelve was super!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Boss,
If you are still looking for a plotter, a buddy of mine is selling his HP 220 plotter and stand for $300. He says it works well and only saw light use. Selling because he replaced it about 2 years ago with a $6000 unit that plots, scans, and copies. If you are interested let me know.John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Yup. I'm definitely interested. As a matter of fact, I plan to call and order softplan lite today.I would want to make sure that supplies are still available for it, though. Sounds like it's an older model?Thanks fer thinking of me.
Exciting minority teens? How, by aiming gamma rays at them until the spontaneously ejected a photon? [Rohit Khare]
It is an older plotter. I asked my buddy and he guessed 10 years. It's been sitting in the corner of his office not being used for the last 2-3. He ran a test plot on it and it ran fine. I checked ebay and it appears that ink is readily available (HP 26) and I checked HP's website and it appears that the windows XP driver is available for HPGL-2.
I'll do a little more checking.John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
If it works O.K. and he's tested it recently, I have little doubt that I could use it. I could concievable drive over the weekend of the 25th and pick it up. I didn't figure he'd deliver it for that......(-:
Cross country skiing is great. But only if you live in a small country.
I guess I'll see yu on Splash. There is lots of help for SP, and great advise in other areas as well.
I am "JWL" in the Splash forum.
Boss,
I don't know if you have bought the software yet but you might be interested to look here
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Thanks, Jon - But the package came last night. I only bought the lite version anyway. Don't know if I'll have enough business to justify the full blown version.
Sometimes I think I understand everything... then I regain consciousness.
Boss, been following this thread in the background, and noticed that you recieved your softplan,Was real curious to see how the learning curve was going andif you had anything you could share that you have done so far?How are things going w/wife? ...Better,sameFor me, I'm just kinda hanging around for the kids .... O>
Hey Butch - Long time no talk. Thanks for asking.I got softplan a couple of weeks ago, and started going through the tutorial in the manual page by page. That took about a week. I don't have it all figured out by any means, but I'm getting a lot of it figured out. I put the word out to everyone I know in the business that I was looking for work. And I told 'em all I would pay a "finder's fee" for the first 3 jobs I got in order to get some business. Last week I got an email from my realtor. She's hoping to build a house soon. Last fall she hired the only other guy in town who draws prints to come up with a plan for her. He came up with a HUGE 2 story house with no way to support the 2nd floor. It looked like heck, and was all but unbuildable. And he charged her $1,000 to draw it.While I was working with her on the house about 6 weeks ago, I mentioned that I was thinking about drawing prints. She was really excited, and strongly encouraged me to do so. She even offered to convince DW that it was a good idea. (-:Wednesday she emailed me and said she'd decided to have their last print re-drawn, and asked me if I'd do it. So we met Friday afternon and I worked on her plan much of yesterday. The printer that John Lazarro found for me is great. It was inexpensive and works well. I even had a friend offer to pick it up for me and bring it back from Indy so I wouldn't have to make the trip.I have 2 other people that are thinking about using me to draw plans. One guy referred his Daughter to me, and a builder has a client that hasn't made up his mind yet. So I may have more work coming in soon. Is that more than you wanted to know? (-:
I think, therefore I get a headache.
"Is that more than you wanted to know? (-:"Man that is exactly what i wanted to hear. I was eventhinking about contacting you for the very exact thingfor my house(in lieu of buying softlplan myself) But right now it is a pipe dream and don't know that I'll ever be able to make it happen.Do you have anything yet that you care to share that you havedone with softplan?"Hey Butch - Long time no talk"Well, after our get together at the rendezous(sp)and my quick departure I kinda of felt bad about saying anything(via breaktime) to you. Didn't know if I had left with any bad feelings from anybody.
"I was even thinking about contacting you for the very exact thing or my house(in lieu of buying softlplan myself)"
I'd be willing to give it a shot. But it would be tough to do long distance.
"Do you have anything yet that you care to share that you have done with softplan?"
I don't think so - At least not at this point. The plan I'm working on is only in the "first draft" stages. And there are privacy issues that I'm not at all sure about.
"Well, after our get together at the rendezous and my quick departure I kinda of felt bad about saying anything to you. Didn't know if I had left with any bad feelings from anybody."
I can't imagine anythying you did that would cause any hard feelings. Based on our conversation when I was headed south I think we are a lot alike and have a lot in common.
I just talk a heck of a lot more than you. (-:
Last night I was in the mood to see something silly and idiotic on TV. So I put the cat there.
"I'd be willing to give it a shot. But it would be tough to do long distance"How do you go about figuring what it would cost to do somethinglike this? I've already got the floor plan, just need to work outthe details......"I can't imagine anythying you did that would cause any hard feelings."I read into a lot of things that aren't there. Seems like i alwayshave a guilty conscience(stupid I know)<Sorry, an error has occurred (ID: 004-057-36851) Please try your request again>Well, I tried to post some pictures of my drawing but i got theabove error message
"Seems like i always have a guilty conscience"
Catholic? DanT
Catholic? nopejust had parents that I could never please,could always do it "just a little better"don't ask me why that has anything to do with what we aretalking about...:-)
Edited 2/26/2006 1:58 pm ET by butch
If you seriously want to talk about some drawings, why don't you email me? If it's not too complicated and doesn't have to be sealed, I could probably help ya out.
If I won the lottery, I wouldn't be one of those people who immediately quit their jobs. I'd make my boss's life a living hell for a week or two first.
If you seriously want to talk about some drawings,I do, but it is going to have to wait a while before I can committo anything right know.
Just let me know when you're ready. You have my treal name, cell phone number, and know where I live. (-:
Winning isn't everything.
Winning and gloating and rubbing their noses in it ... that's everything.
Boss,
Glad to hear that the plotter worked out. Dale hadn't told me that you picked it up already. I knew that it was a good older plotter that just needed a home.
Good Luck,John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Thanks for letting me know about that plotter, John. It saved me a lot of money not having to but a new one. Can't remember if I said, but - The manager of our Springfield Illinois plant was headed over to the plant in Kirklin Indiana a few days back. He offered to pick up the plotter on the way through Indy. I tried to pay him something for picking it up for me, as it would have cost me a full day's time and a bunch of gas money to drive over there. But he wouldn't take it. He just said I owed him a BIG favor, and he was gonna remind me of that frequently. (-:Would you tell your friend the printer works great, and I appreciate it? After using it I do think he gave me a good deal on it.
I said "no" to drugs, but they just wouldn't listen.
FWIW there is guy, Bill Lacey, that posts over in JLC in the Trade Talk, and Business section.He is in a similar situation. He works for a building supply business and is doing plans on the side. He is in WI.
Thanks for the info, Bill. I don't venture over into JLC very often. (Too dull) But I may wander over there and check it out.
I watch the harvest... learning from the earth of what it is to give and give again, and only in that giving to grow whole.
Hey, another Memphis connection for you besides Butch, although I am transplanted to Texas. I pushed the Rendevous, when y'all were planning you Memphis meet.
Our company has desing / build capacity. I use Softplan / Full Version 13. I market plan design and plan changes to my clients. I currently have two plans to adapt and redraw for clients from internet plan services.
While I do not dowplay or belittle the role of building designers and architects, I do suggest the advantages of plans and specifications done by or in cooperation with experienced local buiders.
Further, Softplan now has a group of designers / architects who offer their plans via the website http://www.Softplan.com. I would look for this offering to grow in plan count. Also, http://www.coolhouseplans.com has a limited number of plans offered by SP user architects and designers. As is obvious, these plans can be imported very easily for changes.
My marketing includes the suggestion to purchase internet plans that are as close as possible to what the client wants and then do changes. This is usually much more cost effective than a new design from scratch.
In our marketing, we inform the client that we will do whatever may be required for a full, buildable set or plans and specs, and provide whatever engineering may be required for the foundation and framing thorugh our resources.
We offer a guaranteed price for design work with limitations of review sessions and additional changes. The guarantee is that the plans will be buildable by alternate builders with minimual explanation. Advantage fof completing a set of plans and specs? All builders are bidding apples to apples.
At completion, we provide a guaranteed bid on a Contract to Build, charge the client for design work and offer a discount off of the design work if the client closes on a Contract to Build with our company. To date, our clients have not used an alternate builder. While our design work is market rates, we may discount our design work as much as 40- 50 % in favor and as an incentive for a much larger Contract to Build.
If you do not do the build end, I would suggest befriending a good builder or two for consultation thru the design work. Compenstation can be negotiatied, but this consultation usually results in cost savings substantially beyond the compensation. The builder will be motivated by the possibilities of a Contract to Build with your client.
If you have not already, I would suggest you join Splash http://www.softplansplash.org.
As is evident in your generous post about trusses, I would be glad to give and help you further with anything possible.
If you would like a more private exchange, email me [email protected]. I do have a spec sheet that has been personally developed (blood, sweat and tears) over the years and very effective as a genral format for others doing the same work. Many from Splash have requested the sheet. I do not make this offering to locals, as it is an advantage in competetion.
Thanks for the offer of help. I've already joined splash as "Boss Hog". I've posted a couple of questions in the "beginners" section, and have gotten prompt and helpful answers. I'm still struggling with the program a bit. The whole thing seems so foreign to the truss design/layout software I'm used to. But given time I figure I'll adapt to it. I'm a little fuzzy on how to do multi-level stuff. Like once you have a first floor plan drawn, how do you start the basement and/or 2nd floor? That would be a good subject to take a crack at if you felt inclined to do so.Again, I appreciate your offer of help.
Bumpersticker: As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Boss-
If I remember right from using Softplan 10 years ago, you create a reference point on the drawings that "stacks"- maybe a common corner, or the inside of a stairwell. The program then stacks the floors on top of one another, placing those points at the same location on each floor. Of course, that was back in the DOS version, but I'm assuming it's still similar.
Bob
I remember the thing about the referrence point that you mentioned. I gues you just start a new drawing, put a reference point in it, and start a new drawing using the 2nd floor wall height?
Bumpersticker: If you can read this, I've lost my boat.
Boss,
When I do a multistory structure, I save my drawing, copy my drawing (save as "second floor" or "basement"), erase all the unecessary items from the drawing, and then I start moving or drawing walls. This gives me the footprint in which to work. I draw a reference point for when I use the overlay function to check my wall stacks and bearing points. Overlay is a very neat feature that I only discovered in the last two years and I've been using Softplan for 13 years now. I probably only use 50% of what the program is capable......
Still learning,
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
Well, although I am an SP user since 1997 V9, I view Softplan as a 12 story building and I have only been to the forth or fifth floor.
My building business keeps me from dedicated exploration and learning, although I do learn more with each project.
Thought you might be interested in knowing - This morning I landed my 4th customer. Things started out slow. I got one customer (a woman) who has been driving me nuts with changes. We're gonna have to re-negotiate our original price pretty soon if she doesn't straighten out. (-:Then it was slow for over a week - I was starting to get worried. Then I landed 3 more jobs in the past 24 hours. All of the people so far have almost seemed to be RELIEVED that I was doing this for them. I guess that's one of the benifits of many years of working hard to build a good reputation? Anyway, I couldn't be happier. I appreciate your input, as well as others who have offered suggestions in this thread. Maybe sometimes the nice guys win one......(-:
Everything goes over your head. You should go to Jamaica and become a limbo dancer.
Boss,
Changes will indeed drive you nuts (and it is hard to tell who will take advantage of you, if you do not make upfront policy. A policy as follows or similar defining your work and review / changes may be necessary.
Additional Inclusions and Terms<!----><!----><!---->
1. Plan review of the proposed plans and specifications are limited to a rough draft and specifications creation with Homeowner review following. After the Homeowners primary review, the designer shall make changes to the plan and specifications according to Homeowner preferences. Two additional review sessions shall be allowed. Final plans and specifications shall be produced and delivered to the Homeowner, with payment due upon presentation. <!----><!---->
2. All other additional site discovery and plan changes shall be billed at $______ per hour, or a flat rate with specific instructions by the Homeowner as to the changes required.<!----><!---->
3. The plans and specifications shall be adequate for build-out by a contractor of choice, with Homeowner providing selection of items such as paint color, light fixtures selection, floor covering selections, etc. to Brothers Custom Works or alternate contractor.<!----><!---->
4. Provide 3 sets of plans and specs to the Homeowner. Additional sets as required shall be $_______ per set. <!----><!---->
5. Upon completion of the final plans and specifications, Brothers Custom Works shall submit a bid for the proposed improvements at no extra charge. <!----><!---->
6. Brothers Custom Works shall discount the design work final cost _____% with a closed Contract to Build with Brothers Custom Works. Full payment for plans and specs is due upon completion. The discount shall be applied at Contract to Build closing.<!----><!---->
congratulations!There is no better way to learn a CAD than under pressure of deadline and with changes happening.;)I need to do something diffeent skill wise with each design I do. That is how I learn the program. I read at Splash a lot and keep little things in the back of my head and then go back there when a new skill is necessary. The manual is your friend tho. It covers a lot!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"There is no better way to learn a CAD than under pressure of deadline and with changes happening."
Yup. I've already had to learn a few things the hard way. But I've gained a lot of confidence in what I'm doing.
Haven't hung out on splash much, except to ask questions and get a couple of answers.
No matter how good she looks, some other guy is sick and tired of putting up with her
Too dull? I think I've gotta take that comment personally there Boss! lol
Bill's right- Bill Lacey's been posting over there for a while- he's a lumber salesman who I believe is just about 100% broken away on his own and just doing plans now. He uses Autocad for his drawings, but he may be able to provide you some good advice on finding work, etc.
Let me know of you have trouble finding him,
Bob