Here’s a job I’m looking at–in the rainy Pacific NW.
Existing house is 1 story up and 2 down the hill with a deck wrapping around the second story from up the hill (front of the house.)
The main floor joists all pass outside the ext wall, 2×10’s 16″ O.C. to support the deck/walkway, about a 42″ cantilever. A post and beam hold up one 8×14 framed portion of the deck.
The existing decking material is painted 3/4 PLYWOOD nailed on wedge shims to the 2×10 floor joists for drainage. much of the ply decking is rotted/patched etc and a few of the extending canti’d 2×10 ends are rotted and will need replaced. I won’t even mention the falling0-off POS railing…
I’m to rebuild most of the deck–here’s what I was thinking:
Replace or clean up any rotted joists and rims with treated. Replace all the decking with 3/4 (do they make 7/8?) treated ply and paint/treat it with a non-skid something or other. Or is there a MEMBRANOUS material I can apply over it?
I cannot use any decking greater than 1″ because there’s no room under the doors adn under the wall flashing detail. Also the framing under has got to stay dry as it’s common lumber canti’d out from the house framing and will continue to rot if out in the weather. I will replace all ther rims joists with treated.
40′ feet of the walkway is so bad and useless that I’m going to frame it back to the wall as a small shed roof just to get rid of it.
HO is little bit cheap, but wants it right of course, and the place is a rental so durability and safety are main concerns.
Suggestions Please!
Thanks,
Pat
Replies
My suggestion, lose the cantilevers. That there is a bad idea anywhere it's damp.
Here's my .02, fwiw: It's not a matter of 'if' the cantilevered joists will rot, but rather, 'when'. There are two ways to address the cantilevers; the first is to replace them, which of course means tearing open the ceiling/floor to access the original and fasten in new.
The second option is to cut off the joists at the rim and frame the deck with a ledger, or as free-standing.
With your weather, rot on those joists is inevitable, especially if they are std framing lumber, even with 3/4" plywood covered by membrane. Sounds like you need to rebuild close to the whole thing as it is, might as well rebuild it to last.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
"HO is little bit cheap, but wants it right of course, and the place is a rental"
This is not a good combination, especially sincethe place was built with poor design to begin with. Any time joists pass thru the exterior wall, they lead water and air into the interior. Drafts abound in that floor space affecting the heating capability and efficiency. There could be mold in there, so include a disclaimer for it in your proposal.
The deck should be re-designed to be hung independent of the interior joists and the wall surface dealt with to keep water on the outside where it belongs.
but that will not be cheap
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I agree with you all.
I think I'll propose to completely remove the portion of the deck to be rebuilt and continue with my original plan to make a small shed roof out of the useless 40' catwalk along the belly of the house.
Cut off the cantilevered joists, integrate a treated ledger with proper flashing and rebuild with whatever decking they'd like.
Thanks guys.
Pat
My parents had a 4'x30' balcony with stairs that was framed similarly, but with 2x6 decking. The cantilevered DF joists were dryrotting in place and some even had fungi growing on them - as in the kind you see on trees in the forest.
My solution to avoid tearing off siding, ceiling sheetrock, etc., was to pressure wash the joists, cut back the mushy end grain and then saturate them with liquid epoxy. Wear a cartridge respirator when applying amounts this large.
Joists then got a rubber channel cap (upside down U-shape) that keeps the tops and end grain cuts dry (hopefully). This was slipped under the still good metal flashing that was installed originally under the siding. Decking was Trex. Seven years later, looks like the day I finished, except the joists have a very slight yellow tinge due to the ambering of the epoxy.
The switchback stairs had a landing with dry storage below. Existing plywood and tar paper had failed. Replaced with EPDM roofing and flashing system, with Trex on plastic sleepers. Still dry. BTW, this is in NorCal/Africa, where we have the monsoon and dry seasons, but the wood stays wet for 7-9 months.
Hey Thanks.
There are only 4 or 5 joists in the area to be rebuilt that have problems. Per the HO's wishes I'll rebuild and only fix these 4 or 5. Then I was planning to use that grace ice/water deck stuff I saw in the mag a while back to protect the tops but thx for the tip on the epoxy.
Who makes/markets the EPDM roofing system you mention?
And the epoxy--what brand and what quantity? Was this a product from the boat world? I once used a 2 part epoxy floor finish....
Thanks,
Pat
Curious,,, can you share a ball park price with me?
http://grungefm.com
For the job?
sure.. I'll be working it up over the weekend...I hope.
Surf's up.
Pat
The EPDM was from Resource Conservation Technologies. They advertise every month in FH. Any EPDM will work, but they supply a kit with an adhesive, and uncured EPDM, which is very flexible and is used to flash 3D locations, inside corners for example. The adhesive comes in a tub of one size only; I still have a bunch. If you got to to such a point, I'll check if it's still good and it's yours.
They also offer drip edge bars (or whatever they call 'em) which are metal with a self sealing sticky surface on the inside surface. It's screwed on the horizontal surface that the EPDM laps down onto and holds the EPDM securely down.
The epoxy is from rotdoctor.com. It's a clear penetrating epoxy sealer; it's a liquid with the consistency of water. I used the Internet to search for dryrot solutions and found them. Their selling points seemed to address all of my issues. I can't vouch for their truthfullness. It comes in quarts or gallons. My local paint store also has it. They charge more however. The paint geek there says that painters use it on restoration jobs to seal the wood permanently. The epoxy company claims, "Paint sticks better when you use this first."
Sorry this is so tardy.
Definitely plan on cutting out the cant and build a more conventional structure you can flash properly. Also, with the lack of clearance, I'm not sure EPDM will be any help since you need sheathing beneath it and some kind of finish over it. A paint on system like Gaco-deck (?sp?) would be just the ticket. It comes with ground up walnut shells for slip resistant surfaces and is actually pretty tough material once cured. It's all in the prep. If you're near a White Cap, go in and ask what they have for waterproofing and finish coatings. That's where I got the Gaco-deck kit (about $500/5 gal bucket with catalyst.
Of course, if you're reframing the entire place, you could drop the framing down enough to accomodate whatever finish you wanted. But if cheap is the way to go, look hard at the job because that's not a good situation for a cheap fix.
in the pnw, you can get the gaico deck material at Lumberman's.
also consider the products from Pacific Polymers, which are considerably cheaper.
i just used a four coat system (5001 x2) that finishes with the application of sand and clear coat. that was for use over a critical areas (living space).