we all do it, bid
sometimes you win , sometimes you loose
you justify the winning with the loss. yeah it only cost me 500 I bid 1200, I win, it makes up for those that I bid 500 and it cost me1200 and i lost ( seems like I see more of them)
had a dig out the other day. bid was good, actually I use the same guy for the pst 9 years. usually I just go and say hey Jim , go for it, It was a bank job so I needed a bid. Anyway the bid was 2100 for two days, two people and of course cats and 10 yarders ( big house)
dirt was great, they dint have another guy( because of a car wreck) for half the day, so ten yarder sat a bunch, I supplied a guy for the day , ran laser and confirmed corners
bill came today
$2100
hey Jim, whats sup, you were there one day and I supplied help
hey thats what I bid and you accepted it.
but but but but……… he then deducted for my guy $120, what he said he would have paid for his “helper”, cost me 192 with the guy I sent out there, yeah I could have sent a min wage grunt. would have turned out wavy gravy.
If i had not accepted the bid and paid him hourly I would be in it for under 1k
it still dont seem fair, guess I know how some homeowners feel.
but but but but
arghhhhhhhhhhhh
Replies
Well... he's getting 2100 on this one, but on the next one he'll probably get stuck with a low bid because he missed something, or maybe he'll find the rock of gibraltar about 6" below the surface.
He wins some and loses some too.
>or maybe he'll find the rock of gibraltar about 6" below the surface.
his excludes / includes cover the rock of gibraltar...
remodeler
Two ways to look at this:
First, you can suck it up and drive on, because you can bet that over the course of the next few jobs he's going to eat part of it. Keep working with him and be happy that he gave you credit for his guy not being there. He doesn't care if your guy costs you more than his guy costs him.
Second, find another excavator and tell your buddy Jim he isn't competitive anymore. I would do that even if the new guy costs *more*, it may make Jim realize that he can't get away with screwing you over. Of course, this may backfire on you - Jim may dump you altogether and you get stuck paying more for someone you don't work with very much.
I actually vote for #1, but you might look at it differently. In my business, I need guys with 5-ton rubber tracked excavators for two to four hours of a workday. I have a pool of about ten of these machines, with reliable operators, in a twenty-mile radius. I work with all of them fairly equally, and I have never had to wait more than a day for a machine, or feel like I've been soaked with the bill. If the first guy I call can't get to me within 48 hours, I tell him thanks, and call the next one. Worst case scenario, I rent a machine and dig the job myself. So, maybe you oughta find a backup for Jim, and get a couple prices next time.
as one sub told me 20 years ago when i complained about his price..
" stop whining and act like a pro"Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
a GC I subbed for lots used to try to "negotiate" the price all the time ...
always started with ... "now I'm not trying to beat ya up here but ..."
and that's all he ever got out. As I always jumped in with ...
"good 'cause ya ain't gonna" ...
Most of the time he ended it there ... every now and then he had to put me in my place ... used to leave the house laughing ... telling Cath ... "gonna go get beat up" ...
Each and every time I came back after re-negotiations ... with a bigger and fatter contract!
Used to amaze the wife. And after each time .. she's say ... "why doesn't he learn to keep his mouth shut".
I miss working for him.
Came a point in time where I'd leave certain portions of work out .... the stuff I really didn't wanna do ... but would if the money was right ... in hopes he'd want to renegotiate.
ahh ... the good old days ...
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I don't mind if someone questions a price before agreeing to hire me. But I think it's bush league to complain after the job's done and the bill comes in. On the other hand, seems kind of bush league for him to bill the total amount before offering to at least help pay for the man you loaned him.
"Communication is everything." - Lee Iococa
I feel if you work well with your subs, you have to always give them the benefit of the doubt. Keeping the same group only meshes (sp.?) the project that much further ahead because guys are communicating about different problems that may arise that haven't been discussed only because they are used to working together. That is fudge factor that is worth losing money on one dig in my book.
Several points i want to make
1) I was just saying I know how some homeowners must feel. I did not mean to sound like I was trying to find a way out of the bill
2) I have been using this sub for 9 years or so
3) Before his dad retired I used his dad so add another 20 + years to the family biz,
4) maybe I should have posted this in the woodshed tavern, like I said I was just saying this must be how some owners feel
5) believe me I know the ups and downs, the profits and loss, the homeowner that skips out, the comercial firm that jacks you on 5% on a 1 mil contract better then some of you ever will, so look at yourself before you call bush league
I pay my bills, my subs,I pay my employees well, before I get paid. Im last , my policy
we are a design build firm, we have a showroom, offices, staff, wharehouse, retail building supply, distributors of several major building products ( Lindal, Milgard, Farwest, Helo,Cedarshed)
we got where we did because we treat our employees and subcontractors as tema mates and treat everyoe fair
clean record, no bankruptcys or lawsuits
my yougest son recently ( married with kids) joined the crew,my grandson wants to join us, with him that would make 5 generations building experience
and my son, starts at the bottom pounding nails and stripping forms at near minimum wage. privalage is earned, people are respected for quality, professionalism, team work
And lastly
hey Jim ( not jim blodgett but jim the sub) itf your reading this , ill see you i the morning at the next dig out, you know me, Im not looking around for a low bidder
you and your family are "my" excavation company
ok , Ill calm down, put the merlot down , and get back to paperwork
sorry thought I was just bs-ing with friends
Edited 8/26/2004 11:40 pm ET by hammertime
Edited 8/26/2004 11:42 pm ET by hammertime
You have 29 years history with Jim and his Dad. How many of his bills came in lower than you expected? (just curious)
Ya, I get pissed up and post on here as well. The next day I wonder what the hell I said that for.
"sorry thought I was just bs-ing with friends"
What, so we're all supposed to just nod our heads and comminserate with you?
You were clearly not happy with how this situation went and it seemed like you were asking what we thought. Then when you don't like what people say you get all indignant?
Sorry to have offended you, it certainly wasn't my intent. But I could care less what kind of firm you have, or how you break your kids into it. Posting specific details of business dealings in a public forum for all the world to read is questionable. I sure wouldn't want to do business with you.
Jim,
yeah your right, and I was just venting, I dont like being called a bush leauger, and you did not, and I was not striking back at you when the last thread said Jim. that is the name of the sub.
He and I do have a good realtionship, he started today on a new dig out
I was just saying sometimes you win sometimes you loose on bids, thats all
now I regert I brought it up
and I did not mean to piss you off either
and yor right on biz stuff too, I guesss I was striking back at some who have no experience yet try to walk the walk
shouldnt have brought that up either
as far as your last comment , I guess thats another bridge I burned.
Well I went overboard there, hammertime. I hope you'll accept my apology. Must be letting this stuff get to me too much. Last night the missus asked me if I thought I maybe should get my meds checked.
Thank heavens the weekend's here, huh? Next time I see you I'll buy you a cool beverage and hopefully we can laugh at the time we each bowed our necks online, okay?
See you around.
Again, my bad.
Jim,
for years I have repected what you said. You have written good articles in FHB, even devolping pictures in the bottm of a skyscrapper during an earthquake
all for us here at FHB, owe you, even if they dont know it. YOu were very active years ago, now only occasionally, and now because of me again you speak out, and I apologize for the reason you speak out
and you were right, I was way out of line, way way out of line
you were not bad, it was me, and even your responce, to a point, was true to your form ( I know your form, ive been here at FHB since 1998, under various names) , Ill take the apology half heartedly, but you dont owe it
but , me, I blew it, big time
my last bits of "wisdom" for all breaktimers
hope you never have to look for a vent as your sliding off a icy roof ( meaning I hope you are never in that position, and if you are GRAB IT !!!!)
hope your forms dont blow when mud is low and its 5pm, saturday
hope your GFCI's work in the rain
hope your S4S are really S4S, not some mismarked waney piece of firewood
hope your customers pay their bills, on time with a smile
hope you never say never, or youll be passing up some possibabally good jobs
hope you never burn any bridges ( one time "never" is ok to say)
hope you dont get caught working without a permit ( I dont work without permits if needed, and you should not either)
hope you dont stick your foot in your mouth the way I did, with friends
thanks, Jim, Jeff, Boss, Pippin and others, Ive learned a lot and passed it on
I know some of you I will run into agian in my life
but here, now,
good luck all,
Im out of here
Whoa whoa whoa.......
Where you going brother? There's no tar and feather treatment around here. This is where we all come to blow off steam and get lit up by our peers to get us right sized again. Shoot....that's what it's all about.
Better to have a foot in the mouth here than in your customer's kitchen, no?
Stick around....we need your help. Besides, I can't take ALL the heat around here....someone's gotta share the load!
I read what you guys all write every night and occasionally stick my two cents in. Good people, all of you. These last few conversations are yet another example of what happens when you can't be face to face with the other guy. But it sounds like cool heads have prevailed. I think. But then again, I can't tell if anyone is grinning or not, can I? Hope everyone is, though.
What's with the groveling, man. You didn't do anything to warrant..........and you're probably embarrassing Blodgett.
Speak your mind and let the chips fall where they may for Christs sake......you're just as important in here as any of these old timers..........no need to curtsy and back out the door.
hammer.... sorry i've never met you.. and certainly don't wan't to lose you posting..
another part of that " professionalism" that i try is not burning bridges.. personally i think it's good policy to always leave the door open.. even if you never intend to walk thru it again..
babble , babble , babble.. point being , stick around... you've got lot's of friends here... including blodgettMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
If he's a good sub I wouldn't let the few hundred bother you. If not, then is sounds like you have a good opportunity to go sub shopping.
In the future, it would behove both parties involved to reach an understanding before the work begins when you're trading labor, but of course I'm telling you something that is obvious.
Edit: I read again and have a question. Was the bid explicitly a "firm bid" or was your agreement for 2 men, 2 days?
Jon Blakemore
Edited 8/26/2004 11:11 pm ET by Jon Blakemore
Ground work is always a PITA...........you think it's gonna cost a thousand and it ends up costing ten..............if the guys good, what the hell, they're all expensive. I'm just glad when they're done and gone.
its like that everywhere. the orignal bid amout was properly listed in a file and the secetary just invoice that amount. How much time would you lost waiting for the guy to return. Just trade off with him. extra load of dirt or cleanup oruse of equipment as forklift, it all comes out in the wash.
I know a guy that always order three years extra of concrete no matter what the slab calulates out to. He claimed it cost more for his people to wait for cleanup load thanthe three yards. So how much would the delay cost you.
What if the job had taken three days or more?
From the HO perspective: it's a choice and a gamble either way - fixed bid or T&M. I learned many years ago on a driveway job - you make the decision and then don't second guess yourself or feel "cheated" if you made the wrong call - just be greatful for a job well done.
Thanks for sharing - interesting discussion.