Replies

1. 
   toolbear | Apr 10, 2004 07:00am | #1

   Rockwool for insulation as it actually controls sound.  I have gotten excellent results with it.  The pink stuff will not do this.

   Quad glazing - one thermopane in front of another.  If you can arrange another piece of glass in between this at an angle, more better.  What you want to do is decouple the sound waves.  If you can make a sound wave change direction three times, most of the energy is gone.

   The Kenmore Range has some rather advanced passive sound control measures.  They use Tektum (sic?) sound boards in all their pistol firing positions as a surround and it really reduces the noise.  They have air lock entrances or Z entrances.  The wall between the compressor room and the rec room has a double staggered stud wall.

   ToolBear

2. 
   WayneL5 | Apr 10, 2004 03:50pm | #2

   Here's a good technical site on sound control.  Somewhere on the site they show sound rated construction assemblies with their sound control ratings, so you can compare actual performance of alternatives.  I think your garage door will be your weakest link.

   The best construction would be ICF's, but they can be pricey for a garage.

   http://www.usg.com/Design_Solutions/2_3_4_acoustictips.asp

3. 
   SamT | Apr 10, 2004 05:04pm | #3

   Think of a row of studs covered with anything as a diaphram, also a window pane as one too.

   Two diaphrams of different densities back to back work real well. Putting the DW directly on the studs gives one diaphram, whereas using channel gives two.

   Using two windows BTB with different thickness of glass is better than laminated glass (one diaphram.)

   Denser insulation is better.

   Accustical drop ceilings are fantastic.

   Seal everything, air leaks are big sound leaks.

   USG - Design Solutions - Sound Construction - Technical Features - Sound Control Construction: http://www.usg.com/Design_Solutions/2_3_4_acoustictips.asp

   SamT

   Arguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it. Andy Engel

4. 
   BillHartmann | Apr 10, 2004 06:28pm | #4

   What kind of "workshop" is this for?

   A wooodworking woodshop most of the sound are high frequency and just sealing and standard construction would take care of most of it.

   Now if you have are doing blacksmit work or similar where there is lots of banging you will have low frequency noise which will require the "mass" such as double walls or RC channel.

5. 
   fdampier5 | Apr 10, 2004 06:32pm | #5

   ICF's

    or SIP's

    anything else will conduct the sound right through the 2x4's to the outside with not much attinuation..

6. 
   WorkshopJon | Apr 10, 2004 06:32pm | #6

   Lou,

   Selectively hanging some pieces of carpet on vertical surfaces (walls and partitions) can can go a long way.

   Jon

7. 
   L | Apr 10, 2004 10:08pm | #7

   Great responses, thanks for taking the time to post. It will be a woodworking shop, so I suppose most ot the noise will be relatively high frequency. Can't do sip's, but maybe the resilient channel will help attenuate the waves. I'm open to hanging carpet or some kind of sound batts, especially in front of the garage door if necessary.

   thanks again for your input,

   -Lou

1. 
   remodelerdw | Apr 11, 2004 03:26am | #8

   IMHO the weak link in our plan is --   500 sf.  You need AT LEAST a 30 x 40 building for a home workshop.  More would be better.  Where are you going to put all your tools?  the car you're restoring but haven't gotten back to?  The trailer you're in the middle of customizing the last couple of years?  Now that I think about it.  I'm probably talking too small.

   My workshop is 14 x 22, so about 300 sf.  It is really cramped.  I haven't decided what to do for more space yet.

   remodeler

1. 
   WayneL5 | Apr 11, 2004 05:50am | #9

   Maybe 30 x 40 square feet in your dreams.  Five hundred square feet is a very reasonable size for a home shop.  Not spacious, but affordable and pleanty adequate unless you're building a boat or a complete kitchen full of cabinets or something like that.

2. 
   L | Apr 11, 2004 06:44am | #10

   How right you are. However, my fantasy workshop was been bent, folded and mutilated by the friendly folks at my fair city's zoning dept. Something about a max. buildable footprint on an 8000sf suburban lot. So I'm doing the best I can, will throw open the door and work outside when possible, and am trying to lay out my floor plan as carefully as possible.

   Anyway, the small lots were kind of what got us started talking about sound control & not annoying the neighbors (excessively!)

   -Lou

3. 
   andybuildz | Apr 19, 2004 01:02am | #20

   remo

        I agree with you because I've had shops pretty small and it was nothing but frustration.

   If I were to build new....why not go bigger?

   Reason #1 is that unheated garages/shops don't add all that much tax to a house.

   Reason #2.especially if you build it yourself it really doesnt cost all that much more to go bigger.

   Reason #3 is you can have a the upper attic area work for you as well.

   I'm speaking from experiance.

   I just added on a 32 x32 garage (Katrina thinks its a garage.heh heh)with a huge attic (additional shop space) above it that I framed a sort of hay barn door in the gable end and leaving the ridge beam extened about three feet beyond the facia that I will put on an antique looking block and tackle but in all actuality will have a cable attached to an electric winch to hoist stuff up there.

   If youre building new IMO "go for it".......if possible

   Be a three car garage...heh heh

                                          andyMy life is my passion!

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

8. 
   mike4244 | Apr 11, 2004 07:06am | #11

   Lou, lots of excellent posts to help you. Do you need a garage door? Would a pair of doors be adequate, should help some with the weakest link thing.Resilient channel makes a major difference, also accoustical caulk at floor and ceiling transistions.

   I would install 1/2" plywood or OSB on  channel and drywall or homosote over it.The former gives you backing for screwing or nailing shelves etc.May help with sound deading too. Insulate with sound batts ( known as rotten cotton in these parts).Wallboard building suppliers ( not big box stores) have information on sound deading systems, and every  thing you need.

   mike

1. 
   L | Apr 13, 2004 07:09pm | #12

   Thanks Mike, indeed, a wealth of information. I'm constantly amazed at what a little online research can produce. Good thought on the garage doors. And I'm definitely sold on the resilient channel.

   Cheers,

   -Lou

1. 
   csnow | Apr 15, 2004 06:02pm | #13

   The noise that will travel farthest are the low frequency sounds.

   Think of that overpowered car stereo going down the street.  What do you hear?

   BOOM BOOM BOOM.  Low frequency noise will transmit through a standard stud wall pretty well, because the inner wall surface and the outer wall surface are joined by solid materials (the studs).  You can stop this 'bridging' by building a double wall. 

   In order to take up less space, the double wall can be formed using alternating offset studs. The first stud is attached to the sheathing, the second is offset 1 inch, and attached to the interior wall, and so on...  Then you fill the cavity with an insulation material.

1. 
   L | Apr 15, 2004 07:31pm | #14

   I've seen the staggered stud thing before - looks like it might be the way to go.

   Thanks,

   -Lou

1. 
   AdamB | Apr 17, 2004 05:27pm | #15

   here is a previous breaktime link

   to break up the soundwaves being transmitted throught something you need two layers of different materials.

   I.E.: next to studs one layer of OSB, then a layer of sheetrock.

   The idea is to force the soundwaves to bounce off every change of material.

   I like the Idea of swinging doors for the garage, that way you can put a layer of thin OSB on the inside with a layer of the exanded poly sheeting and a layer of sheetrock on the inside that.  Should hold the sound in pretty good.

   Here is another link I have stored.

   It looks like some sort of gasket to put inbetween the OSB and the studs.  Have not used it, so......

   Adam

2. 
   WayneL5 | Apr 17, 2004 09:01pm | #16

   For the garage door, a (thermally) insulated garage door would block the sound quite well and would be the easiest solution.  You probably haven't seen any in Pasadena, but your dealer could order one.  I would not worry too much about R-value, but definitely get one with gaskets at the edges.

   I got an 8' x 7' super-duper R-18 insulated and gasketed H-Tech Plus garage door from Garaga in Canada for my shop.  It was only $600US installed.

   http://www.garaga.ca/en/residential/door_models/superseal.html

3. 
   L | Apr 18, 2004 07:39am | #18

   Wayne, I've ordered an insulated garage door. You're right, they don't sell a lot of 'em in Southern California! Although I did decide to use a conventional (roll-up) door instead of carriage doors (cost & practicality), if that does become a noise leak I believe I can add some homasote panels to the inside.

   Thanks All,

   -Lou

4. 
   mitch | Apr 18, 2004 07:45pm | #19

   "Five hundred square feet is a very reasonable size for a home shop. "

   that kinda talk will get your a$$ thrown off of this forum faster than anything!  you better friggin hope nobody's wife sees you saying ridiculous #### like that.  my shop is 1300 sq ft, i'm already running out of room and it ain't even finished yet!  ;-)

   m

5. 
   L | Apr 18, 2004 07:35am | #17

   Adam, thanks for the great links. Prospero failed to cough up that previous Breaktime thread for me.

   -Lou