I started a little job renovating a garage for someone, and suddenly today we are talking about soundproofing it for piano lessons and maybe a garage band. There is an apartment upstairs with people in it and the garage will be divided into two studios. We are going to try to add soundproofing to half of it and are building a wall down the middle. My question is, what is the bestish cheapish way to soundproof a new wall? We are also going to do something with the ceiling; maybe solid foam for sound and a drop ceiling? Any advice would be appreciated.
Shhhh!
Replies
Stop thinking about 'soft squishy' materials - they are for sound absorption within a space. For sound transmission loss through materials you need MASS (heavy dense material).
This is rarely cheap, for instance a solid brick or block partition down the center is going to give you more transmission loss than wood-frame.
Quiet-Rock is a material that in 5/8" or so gives you 8x the sound transmission loss of the same sheet of drywall - but it's something like $250/sheet. It may, however, be the best overhead (ceiling) material since creating a new concrete floor system is likely prohibitive ;o)
Filling spaces with acoustic insulation (thermafiber) helps - but only a little. Layers of cement board (Durock, not hardie) with joints filed/taped under drywall helps - but again that's not a cheap alternative.
Jeff
Thanks for the clarification on sound absorbtion vs transmission. What about covering the wall/ceiling in 4/8 sheets of 2" solid foam? Like insulating but in reverse? Ellis
Lightweight foam? Don't bother. Again it's density/weight/mass that works. Plus foam can't be left exposed, generally.
Jeff
How about a double layer of drywall? Would that be better than the lightweight foam?
Ellis
Open cell spray foam, rubber gaskets, hat channel and quiet rock should be more than good. If you do something cheap and it doesn't work, you will spend much more than doing something a little more expensive in the first place.
"How about a double layer of drywall? Would that be better than the lightweight foam?"
Much better - stagger the joints and consider treating the first set of joints with a 'heavy' material like setting compound or plaster rather than leaving the 'crack'.
5/8" better than 1/2" too - sorry (thinking about the ceilings).
Jeff
The best and cheapest way to get predictable and reliable sound reduction in walls and floors is not to simply add expensive sound proofing projects randomly, but rather to find a wall or ceiling assembly with a tested sound rating and meticulously reproduce it.
Excellent advice, clearly stated and the only fool proof way forward.
Soundproofing is a science not ad hoc application of materials.
Anyone who designs or builds multi-unit residential has no choice but to think this way. There are literally dozens of workable assemblies that use common materials which yield high STC and IIC values - and these values are predictable and repeatable.
The exotic and very expensive sound attenuation materials marketed by specialty firms come and go without having any appreciable effect on the way buildings are constructed - mainly because they are stand alone products that don't make sense either economically, or are hard to integrate into wall or ceiling assemblies.
There must be something alluring about them though because every week or so a request for advice on soundproofing here will elicit enthusiastic endorsements for green glue, mass loaded vinyl, sound board and a raft of other solutions.
Here's a good amount of info concerning resilient channel and acoustical mat:http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/channel.htmThe Woodshed Tavern Backroom
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Yes but take note that all of that only adds maybe 3-5 STC points in the assembly which isn't all that great.
Jeff
I did an experiment a couple years ago with some inexpensive sound reduction board, like Celotex without the asphalt coating, which I bought from a large drywall supplier.
The noise problem was a compressor in a bicycle shop, loud enough to stop conversation.
I put the compressor in a corner against two cement block walls. Then I built two short surrounding 2X2 walls and a lid, covering both sides of each with the material mentioned. I then added another frame of 2X2 to the outside of each and put a third layer of material over that.
There was then three layers of sound deadening material with two air spaces in between. Worked like a charm. The compressor was barely audible, even with a fist sized hole in it for the air line and for air to feed the compressor.
BTW, the two walls and the lid are a snug, impermanent fit. They are meant to be easily moved so that the compressor can be serviced, particularly draining water from the tank.
Edit: The material mentioned (sorry I don't have a brand name) was less than $10 per 1/2"X4X8 sheet. It's very lightweight and has no structural strength.
Edited 7/21/2009 10:41 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Homasote?
I'm not flippin' you off.........just counting cubits
Your standard of living will eventually diminish to your standard of buying. Think about it.
Homasote?
Less dense...
:-)
Homasote has structural integrity. This stuff is soft enough to easily break with your hands. I suspect that it's made by several companies, under different names.
If I remember correctly, it's meant to be applied before drywall. I used some fake 3/8" T1-11 over it, to protect it from accidents and add a solid sound barrier to the outside.
Homasote is made from recycled paper right here in NJ.
Perfect as a floor layer to deaden footfalls from above - but I'd rather have a layer of cement board or two of drywall to control sound from the garage up into the other spaces.
Jeff
I'm not recommending Homasote for this soundproofing application either. I was simply replying to a question about my previous post.
just FYI but this may give you a start in research.....
http://www.homasote.com/products/440-Soundbarrier.aspx
I'm not flippin' you off.........just counting cubits
Your standard of living will eventually diminish to your standard of buying. Think about it.
All the ideas above are good. A major issue is to create a disconnect between the wall surface in the room that has the sound and adjacent spaces. That's why most sound proof designs rely on two walls that are disconnected. Doing that on the ceiling can be done with special channels. Like some one said weight of the wall and ceiling materials helps reduce the transmission of sound. Doors need to be solid core and a door on each side of the door frame will be necessary. Think of sound as air movement. Like preventing air infiltration into a house you need to prevent sound. Caulking under framing,below wall material, and weather stripping the doors will be necessary. No electric outlets in the wall or ceiling can be tolerated. I did the tenant finish on a car stereo store in a shopping center a number of years ago. You have to really pay attention to details to get it right.
A while ago I did resilient channels, covered with homasote, covered with mass loaded vinyl, covered with drywall.
Home theater. Pretty darn dead quiet outside the room. I built a door, gasketed on all four edges, with a layer of MLV within the core of the door.
Still, that's the "big stuff". Sound transmission, or stopping it, is all about the details. Caulk where you need it, eliminating gaps where they easily occur, etc.
Check out MLV.
I should have mentioned MLV - http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/flooring.htm - and it's $1-3/SF +/-.
For a garage ceiling application you'd probably want to keep it out of the fire-rated floor assembly unless it's specifically rated to be in there.
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Jeff
Edited 7/22/2009 7:18 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
That wall detail is almost exactly what I used. The ceiling was slightly different.