Replies

1. 
   archyII | Aug 31, 2002 02:02am | #1

   No weep holes are a problem if it is a cavity wall (with either block or stud construction.  If the wall is solid brick and block there typically are no weep holes.  Weep holes at lintels and at the base are not a bad idea in solid masonary construction since water does get into the collar joints and should flow out at the flashing at the lintels and at the base of the wall.  In the old days of solid brick construction no flashing was used and the steel lintels rust out.

   "I understand that this type of construction is somewhat controversial"

   What type of construction?

1. 
   DP | Aug 31, 2002 04:52pm | #2

   Thanks for your reply.  I was told that the use of brick facing or veneer over a stud wall and sheathing (which is what I'm told this is) was somewhat controversial.  Not sure why though. 

   In this situation where there are no weep holes, is that reliably and easily correctable at reasonable expense?  I really like the condo otherwise and am wondering if I can get the problem fixed so that I can go ahead with the purchase or whether or not I'd just be better off passing and looking for something else.  However I certainly don't like it enough to buy a problem.  Thanks again for your insights.

1. 
   UncleDunc | Aug 31, 2002 07:13pm | #3

   The reason it's controversial is that the detailing has to be done pretty exactly to keep water out of the building over the long term. Too many people who specify and build brick veneer walls act as if a brick wall is waterproof. A new, well laid wall might come pretty close. but over time most brick walls crack, and even though most of the cracks are very small, the wall will no longer exclude water, especially wind driven rain. At that point, if enough water gets behind the brick and has no way to get out other than wicking back through the brick and evaporating, it will overwhelm whatever moisture barrier or retarder was installed on the inner layer of the wall. And spraying sealer on the exterior won't help, because any sealer that would seal the cracks would look like a coat of plastic, and people who pay the price for brick don't want to see plastic coated brick.

   I would modify ARCHYII's response to say that no weep holes in a brick veneer wall _may_ be a problem if the climate or the design are such that there is going to be a lot of water on the walls. There are situations where a brick veneer without weep holes is not a problem. My 40 year old brick veneer house has no weep holes, and I have seen no sign of water pooling behind the brick. That may just be sheer gut luck, or it may be because we average just under 20" of precipitation a year here, and some of that is snow. The air is very dry. Well, not very dry compared to Las Vegas, but very dry compared to Washington, DC. In 14 years, the only time I've seen wind driven rain is in thunderstorms, where the really windy part seldom lasts 10 minutes. I don't think I've ever seen wind driven rain more than twice in one week. And although I don't have weep holes, I do have some kind of membrane flashing under the first course of bricks. So either no water is getting behind my brick, or if it is, it's always able to dry out before it gets deep enough to spill over the top edge of the flashing.

   If your area gets a lot of rain, especially a lot of wind driven rain, or if the design of the building is such that you're going to get roof runoff running down the walls, they should have installed weep holes. Can you talk to the builder and find out their rationale for omitting them? They may have an explanation. If they talk about brick walls being waterproof, or explain that the bricks will get a coat of sealer periodically, run away.

2. 
   archyII | Sep 01, 2002 02:16am | #4

   Brick veneer over steel studs with gyp. sheathing is controversial according to the Brick Institute but not to USG.  Proper flashing at the heads and sills of all opening and at the base of the wall is critical.  The flashing should have dams at the ends.  One other critical component is that the cavity is kept clear of mortar droppings.  I have found this to a real problem in residential construction.  The cavity wall is a rain screen.  Water will get though the bricks either though the bricks themselves or through joints, cracks and/or gaps.  The water will then run down the back face of the brick to the flashing and then out of the wall.  If there is no flashing or if the mortar bridges the gap the water flows to the stud wall and causes problems.  The building paper that is installed has been penetrated by all of the nails for the brick ties (brick ties were used weren't they) creating a path for the water to get inside of the stud wall.  If everything else was done right and they just did not install weep holes (rope wicks, plastic tubes, unfilled collar joints, etc.) the fix is easy.  But more than likely the rest of the construction has problems.  The extent of the problem is dependent on your climate (per the other poster).

1. 
   DP | Sep 01, 2002 07:33pm | #5

   Thanks to both posters for the comments.  The building is in Chicago not too far from the lake.  Sounds like I'd be well advised to look for some thing else.

   Edited 9/1/2002 12:44:24 PM ET by DP

1. 
   Piffin | Sep 02, 2002 08:10am | #6

   That sounds wise. Thjere's too much you can't see behind the brick. Most condo jobs I've ever worked on werre built on the "Let's knock this outquick" Plan instead of the " Let's see how well we can build this one"Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   rjw | Sep 02, 2002 03:32pm | #7

   I agree with much of the advice given: in my area (NW Ohio) it is very common to see older houses withou visible weep holes, and I frankly doubt if there were any.

   But: weep holes are now required as one part of a water management system, if they skipped the weep holes you have to wonder what else they skipped where you can't see.

   How much roof overhand is there?  The lmore overhang, the less likely there will be problems.

   Some info on weep holes is available at http://www.hhinst.com/Artbrickveneer.html

   Also, the Brick Institute of American has a lot of technical information, including this info at

   http://bia.org/bia/technotes/t28.htm

   I've e-mailed you the name of a good inspector in Chicago if you want a second opinion.

   (BTW, brick and mortar is generally porous from day 1 (I believe there are a few speciality bricks which aren't, but the brick used in veneer walls always is in my area.)

   
   

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   Edited 9/2/2002 8:33:22 AM ET by Bob Walker

1. 
   DP | Sep 02, 2002 08:00pm | #8

   Thanks for the information and the inspector reference.  I've walked away from this deal but will file his name away for use the next time.