This is for you pros out there. I know I can’t compare geographical apples and oranges when it comes to square foot costs in addition to comparing the labor costs between a “craftsman” and a hack. That being said what I would like to know is for your area how would a square foot cost compare between a finished interior project and a front porch. I’m going to put a full size “sittin” porch on the front of my house that will be approx. 300 sq. ft. I’m not sure yet whether it will be post and pier or foundation wall so lets just say foundation wall with footers. The question is say that a 300 square foot family room addition comes in at 125.00 per square foot. I know that it all depends on materials costs, however it would seem to me that from at least a labor perspective that an open front porch would require much less time and effort to construct than an enclosed addition therby at least from a labor cost perspective be less on a per square foot basis. Am I just blowin in the wind here?
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Blowin' in the wind? Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on how detailed you want the porch to be. I did one on a Victorian house that three of us worked on for 6 weeks, with all sorts of custom run moldings and balusters. Probably cost $300 a square foot. You can get a lot of builders to do decks in the $25/50 per foot range. The best way to answer your question is to work out a design you like and then start talking to builders.
As far as your comparison to a room addition, there are big advantages to the addition. You get to frame quickly with relatively affordable lumber and then cover huge areas of it with drywall and carpet. Carpenters are quite familiar with framing up a room. With a porch you probably have a lot of exposed woodwork, and probably more head scratching and problem solving. I think they're apples and oranges.
Rip,
Either FHB or JLC had an article on this very topic a year or two ago,,,compared various $/Sq/ft throughout residential building...baths as opposed to bedrooms as opposed to kitchens as opposed to porches, etc.
Try a search....maybe the Gods of Prospero are in a good mood today.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Take a dart board, close your eyes, and throw a dart at it. Whatever number you hit, multiply by 10, and that will give you a cost per square foot estimate. Doubles and triples don't count. If you miss the board entirely, that means you can't afford the project. ;-)
If you want to get a little closer, figure out how you want to build the porch, do a materials takeoff, add 10 % for waste, take it to a building supply for a price, then, since you are not a pro, add 25% to that for overages, add any costs for permitting, foundation, etc, to get a direct expense sub total. Then for labor, contractors insurance, business expenses, overhead, figure 2.5 to 3.5 times the previous subtotal, depending on what special finishes, prep tearout, etc, you may have. Then add the direct expense subtotal to the labor/overhead costs for a grand total. Now devide by the number of square feet to get your cost per sq ft.
Edited 3/7/2004 3:32:50 PM ET by DIRISHINME
Thanks to all for your responses. I guess one needs to have a more detailed idea as to what the job entails and go from there. I knew this and was just being lazy. I've generally done most of my own work in the past. I'm good but I'm slow, so in order to maintain marital bliss I plan on giving this project to a pro. On major jobs in the past I've always kind of gone by the 50/50 rule, that is 50% materials, 50% labor in order to figure what I saved by doing it myself. I know this is only ballpark and very job specific but I think it at least gives me an idea.
Not counting the elaborate ones, I have done decks ranging from $15/ft to $40/ft. That 50/50 rule is a new on on me. Some jobs run 30/70 and some are exactly opposite. I wouldn't count that one as being worth much.
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"300 SF sitting porch..."
Now, is that REALLY what you want...or are you settling for less now thinking about conversion later on?
If you really want the addition rather than a porch, build the addition now! A lot of the initial construction costs would be the same ; whether you build a porch or an extra room, but materials used for the finished product would be altogether different.
For example...if you intend to install a regular concrete foundation, nomatter what, then your associated site costs are practically the same. Excavation, formwork, drainage work are practically all the same. Roofing will be much the same as well. Rafter spans, sheathing grades, shingle grades, all remain the same.
The differences are mostly in the "visible details". If a porch, you probably would go with a T&G wood decking; plus paint and or varnish. You would also pay costs associated with porch column details, and railing details and porch ceiling/soffit details, and porch lighting fixtures; since all this is visible.
Going with an addition instead, all of these above listed details can be drastically altered. You don't need fancy columns, or railings, or a weather proofed deck or ceiling....you can use plywood sheathing for the floor and carpet over it. You can erect a regular stud wall and eliminate the need for a load bearing beam ( that you would otherwise need between porch columns). Your electrical needs are now different too. Perhaps you no longer need brass porch light fixtures, but a few wall receptacles would be nice; along with a couple of regular light fixtures.
However, if wanting an addition, then you need to insulate and it's easier to insulate underneath the porch and up inside the ceiling joists now; rather than at a later date(conversion).
And of course, you need to install a finished, exterior wall with a room addition. If the exterior is wood clapboard or vinyl siding or similar, no big deal. If exterior is to be brick, then foundation needs to be poured so as to support the brick, and this foundation is different than just supporting a wood deck porch...so again, if you really want a room addition, and addition would be brick, it's best to have foundation poured accordingly now; rather than trying to convert porch at a later date.
Another factor that can drive up room addition costs fast is the type and number of windows you want to install and the amount of cabinetry involved. Some of this cost can be offset by savings you realize from forgoing the columns and railings route associated with a porch. But this won't necessarily be an even trade-off.
What I'm trying to say is that, depending upon your tastes and styles, a "bare bones" room addition won't cost you much more than a "bare bones" sitting porch...sooo you need to asess your feelings and build what you really want the first time around. Now, if you want to put in an extra bathroom in this space, or make it into a library/study with lots of cabinetry, then a porch is by far cheaper to build, but as pointed out by other posters, a porch can be very expensive or inexpensive; depending upon the details; and so too can a room addition of equal size.
Plan and build what you really want...even if that means waiting a while longer to get the needed finances in place. It's easier, cheaper, and better suited to build what you want the first time around, rather than tearing out and adjusting a lot of items at a later date to achieve your original goal.
Just my opinion of course.
LOL.
Davo
I appreciate what you have to say, but yes we just want a porch.
Last summer I finished a 500 sq ft addition onto the the back of the detached garage to be used as a place for my mother to stay and as a guest house. Living room / kitchen combination. bedroom, bathroom with tub and tile, closet, carpets, kitchen tile.
My total cost, including appliances, was $18,000. I did everything except the slab and sewer lines (that cost $4000). All materials except carpet, tile, and shingles, came from HD. Kitchen cabinets were the white pre-fab ones from HD. The outside was done in Hardy board with cedar window trim and Hardy soffits and eves.
This was in Harris county, near Houston. Needed a county permit but no inspections. Also required home owner association approval.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Any contractor will tell you there is a difference between an HD building package and a lumber yard building package when it comes to figuring sq.ft. cost. You may pay a little more at a lumber yard but you will more than make that up in labor costs when you dont have to put up with 2nd grade lumber and materials.
Well, the dimensioned lumber I got at HD was not 2nd rate. I hand picked it all and loaded it myself to my trailer. Also, HD is a mile away. The nearest other type lumber yard is 20 miles away and about 45 minutes driving time. Lowe's is just across the expressway from HD but it takes an extra 10 minutes to get across over to them.
PS - I did get an estimate of $35K from a builder and that was with me doing all the cabinet and trim work. Being retired I decided to do the job myself as my labor is pretty cheap right now!
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
thats great for a you, you have all the time in the world to pick through their mounds of picked over crap for some straight wood. then load it on a friggen hand cart and push it through a warehouse up to the dropout at the register. More bull there, price check, whatever..." MOD,MOD,MOD help the idiot at register 47 load a spool of paper.....".
What I am saying is the professional builder cant waste the time necessary to deal with the big box and their 2nd rate crap. That factors well into the price per square foot analysis.
As a contractor I could have called that lumber yard 20 miles away with a material list and had good stuff delivered. The time saved would more than pay for the additional mark-up. Yeah you could have phoned your order to HD but who is that brave?
Per square foot prices as nonsense! Too many variables.
Want a per square foot price? Build it, keep accurate records, then divide the cost by the square footage. Want to build the "same thing" again? You'll be lucky if your square foot price comes in within 10% of the previous.
Something is what it does.
I'm sure you are right. However I can't believe that there isn't some data out there that indicates relative costs between different types of projects.
Hasbeen -
That's what I did. I put all expenses on my credit card except the slab work. When completed I downloaded the credit card statements and summed everything up using Microsoft Excel. Expenses included a few new tools like a PC framing nailer. Some expenses like electric switches and copper fittings were not included as I already had some of those.
When I first moved to this house I added a 55' long back porch. Got two bids of $12K and $18K. I did it myself and final expenses were $2.5K.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
That $2.5k was your material cost & tool cost not your expense cost. A contractor puts 3 separate category of prices into a bid 1-material ;2- labor;3- overhead expenses. The bids you received for $12k & $18k include not only your material costs but also workmens compensation {criminal offense to not have it to cover employees} ; liability insurance; advertising ;health insurance; office expenses; lawyers fees ; accountant fees; and on & on & on.
Your a homeowner trying to save a buck -which is fine - there is no comparison between that & a legitimate business trying to make $. No sense in comparing your apples to somebodies oranges - it's not the same thing & it never will be.
Mickus -
Back in my younger days I did contract cabinet work. Had this one job come up for bid that I really didn't want to do. I figured time, material, expenses, profit, etc. Let is set a few days and went back and said 'what the h-e-l-l' and double the first figure and sent it in. I won the bid cause no one else had submitted one! That one job put braces on all my kids teeth!
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood