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Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

staining maple

stemreno | Posted in General Discussion on October 25, 2008 10:15am

Hi

I’m finishing my custon made maple island in my kitchen.  It is solid maple moldings and maple veneered plywoood for the carcass.

We tried today to stain it using a minwax penetrating oil based stain, Ebony, and did not end up with a very good finish.   The maple is such a dense hardwood that very little of the stain was absorbed into the wood.

My local Benjamin Moore dealer suggeted to use old Masters rubbing stain, which has no liquid carriers, but unfortunatly, ebony is not available any more.

Does anybody have any suggestions about products, or methods I could use?

Thanks

stemreno.

Reply

Replies

  1. Piffin | Oct 25, 2008 10:42pm | #1

    I have not had much luck with staining maple either.

    A couple things recommended to me were gel stains - they stay on the wood lounger instead of running off - but are time consuming.

    And aniline dye - alcohol based - that you mix yourself, to colour the wood

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
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  2. Jigs_n_Fixtures | Oct 25, 2008 11:41pm | #2

    Try posting in the finishing section over on Fine Woodworking's "Knots" forum. 

    Personally if you want to ebonize maple, analine dies is what I would try. 

    For a quick and dirty solution, black krylon spay paint works, but, isn't very durable as any dings or nicks show the light toned maple. 

  3. billybatts | Oct 26, 2008 03:13am | #3

    i think you have to condition the wood first

    1. Piffin | Oct 26, 2008 04:36pm | #16

      That is for soft woods like pine that take stain un-evenly. Conditioning helps it take stain smoothly and look even when done. 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  4. silver77 | Oct 26, 2008 03:15am | #4

    We had a fireplace surround last Christmas that they wanted to be ebony maple. We tried some wipe on stains-not even close.

    We were matching cabinets and the cabinet guys gave us the stain they used...spray on...we didn't buy it so I'm not sure but I think it had an alcohol base.

    Ask your local cabinet shops or paint stores-ebony maple is popular now so should be no problem.

    silver

    1. silver77 | Oct 26, 2008 03:19am | #5

      I learned another trick from a floor finisher on maple hardwood floors-trade secret.Lightly wipe the floor down with water,be careful not to miss a spot.Then use wipe on stain-I did a floor like that and it works, the stain goes on even and deeper than usual...its called popping the grain and that's xactly what it does but fine sandpaper will cure that...I like plan a and plan b.silver

    2. Piffin | Oct 26, 2008 04:41pm | #19

      The one time I've seen it well done was similar. The guy used a spray that healed quick before it could drip or run. I think lacquer type. both alcohol and lac go off fast.But with both, you are laying a stain on top of the wood, rather than the stain penetrating like most stains are supposed to do.That difference in thinking is what has to be grasped to do this. Typically you are staining the WOOD, but with something as hard as hard maple, you are laying stain up ON the wood.the aniline dye does stain into the wood some though. 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. User avater
        Sphere | Oct 26, 2008 04:53pm | #23

        Maples are a whole new approach to finishing, first of all soft or hard? Type of cut? Flat sawn is easy, quarter sawn is way different, as is Big Leaf with quilting or fiddle figure.

        I could write a book on the various conundrums w/maple ( Acer Saccrum, et al) and finishing. No two pcs. will take finish the same, you need a bag of tricks to get the best out of it.

        Never, ever, use a preconditioner on maple ( The minwax variety) hell, never use it at all, a wash coat or spit coat of shellac can do harm too when not done well. A safe bet is a grain raise with water, sand away the fuzz, hit it with alcohol and apply dye while wet..only dye, forget the pigments, they slough off when wiped..allow to dry, resand lightly, re-dye, resand, apply top coats.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

        Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

         

        They kill Prophets, for Profits.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4

         

  5. Shep | Oct 26, 2008 03:25am | #6

    How fine did you go with the sandpaper? The finer you go, the less open the already fine pores of the maple get.

    You probably shouldn't go more than 150g if staining maple. And a gel stain, or an aniline dye, are your 2 best bets.

  6. MSA1 | Oct 26, 2008 03:49am | #7

    I know very little about staining but my floor guy "pops the grain" before he stains. Maybe try a little wood conditioner. It may help open the grain and let the wood accept the stain a little more readily. 

     

    Family.....They're always there when they need you.

  7. HootOwl | Oct 26, 2008 04:37am | #8

    Scroll down the page a ways.  Those colors  are examples on curly maple.

    http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/TransTint.htm

    As I've recommended to others before...don't cut the bottle spout off, pierce it with a needle instead. This allows you to precisely control how many drops you place in any particular recipe to achieve a desired color.

    1. stemreno | Oct 26, 2008 05:18am | #9

      It looks like the over whelming choice is Dye stain.  Now I've got to find a dealer for it up in Toronto, Canada. Any body up in my area that knows where I can look?

      Thanks for all the info, I appreciate the fast and informative responses.

      stemreno

      1. User avater
        Sphere | Oct 26, 2008 06:57am | #10

        Get this.

        You can use RIT fabric dye, available in many food stores.

        It is a water soluble dye, and I believe it is available in lamp black..any thing h20 soluble will work with alcohol.

        I've used it in many colors with no ill effects.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

        Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

         

        They kill Prophets, for Profits.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4

         

        1. Jer | Oct 26, 2008 04:21pm | #13

          Dammit! you beat me to it again! RIT fabric dye, available at your local supermarket.I have ebonized many pieces in hardwood (including soft & hard maple) with great results.Took a few decades for me to discover it.

      2. TomT226 | Oct 26, 2008 01:54pm | #11

        Ply veneers and solid wood will absorb stain differently.  You can mix Trans-Tint dyes with any finish and get a uniform stain.  Do a couple of stain coats, then a couple of clear coats.  WB lacquer or poly would give you a durable finish if you don't want to spray.  Talk to Jeff over at Homestead, he can hook you up with good advice... 

        1. User avater
          Sphere | Oct 26, 2008 03:59pm | #12

          Thinking back to my musical instrument career and resulting finishes, I used a lacquer base concentrate on casework and such.

          Black is available and it's right concentrated, like an oz. will do a quart of lac. for complete grain hide. I used the RIT trick on maple or dogwood fingerboards and black keys on organs that get more wear. The dye isn't floating in finish, it penetrates quite deep and as the finish or wood wears down,it stays black.

          Gaboon Ebony is SO expensive ( sold by the LB, not BF) that I started using Dogwood ( as hard, if not harder) and dying it. Grain is similar too, but not quite as coarse. Makes an excellent fret board.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

          Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

           

          They kill Prophets, for Profits.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4

           

          1. User avater
            FatRoman | Oct 26, 2008 04:26pm | #14

            Just thinking of your instrument making this morning while flipping through the latest FWW.Nice looking guitar in the gallery. Rosewood, bear claw spruce, ebony, mahogany, etc. Really lovely work.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb

            View Image

          2. User avater
            Sphere | Oct 26, 2008 04:37pm | #17

            I've not seen it yet, I let my subs. lapse and buy off the shelf when it hits my fancy.

            Need to renew my membership to A.S.I.A ( Asscoc of stringed instrument artisans) and get back into it  more. I have my own 12string Ovation on the bench in a vise as I type, sound board blew a crack from the bridge to the butt, just so happens to be jet black.

            I taped either side with ele tape and drizzled a bottle of super glue into the crack, then take a single edged razor blade and tape the ends so only a bit is exposed in the center, scrape the high glue with that, till almost flush ( the thickness of the tape) then sand with 15 micron paper till shiney new, maybe pipette a bit of fresh lacquer over the repair.

            I HATE gloss black repairs, the hardest to fix by far.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

             

            They kill Prophets, for Profits.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4

             

          3. Piffin | Oct 26, 2008 04:52pm | #22

            I think back when I had a couple customers wanting dark walnut colour stain on their maple floors, you recommended asphaltum.We tried several things back in the laundry room under where the dryer and washer were to go for sampling, then were able to talk them both into clear finish work. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          4. User avater
            Sphere | Oct 26, 2008 04:55pm | #24

            LOL..Roof tar and gasoline, fixes everything walnut. (G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

             

            They kill Prophets, for Profits.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4

             

          5. Snort | Oct 26, 2008 04:41pm | #18

            http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=847-347&search=Dye Now you see this one-eyed midget

            Shouting the word "NOW"

            And you say, "For what reason?"

            And he says, "How?"

            And you say, "What does this mean?"

            And he screams back, "You're a cow

            Give me some milk

            Or else go home"

          6. Jer | Oct 26, 2008 04:36pm | #15

            Dogwood? Do you harvest that yourself or are there specialty places for that like Stewarts or Constantines? Is it as heavy as ebony & does it float?
            Woodworking is a bit rusty these days but I do maintain interest.

          7. User avater
            Sphere | Oct 26, 2008 04:42pm | #20

            Self harvest, or I ask tree guys I know. It floats, density is like osage or rosewoods. It gets hinky when drying tho' quite mobile, saw big, plane to final.

            I also made a lot of parts ( body wings, tops, sound boards, never necks) out of Palownia(sp) it's early for me, long hard night): and Catalpa, thats an awesome sounding wood.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

             

            They kill Prophets, for Profits.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4

             

  8. Frankie | Oct 26, 2008 04:48pm | #21

    Go to this website:

    http://www.wdlockwood.com/

    They offer water, alcohol and oil soluble dyes. I have had great success with all their dyes. They are shipped in a dry powder form so shipping costs are minimal.

    Maple has a lot of red in it, so prior to staining/ dying black, apply a coat of green stain/ dye to counteract the red. When you email or phone Lockwood, they will advise you which green to use.

    Hope this helps.

    Frankie

    Flay your Suffolk bought-this-morning sole with organic hand-cracked pepper and blasted salt.

    Thrill each side for four minutes at torchmark haut. Interrogate a lemon.

    Embarrass any tough roots from the samphire. Then bamboozle till it's al dente with that certain je ne sais quoi.

    Arabella Weir as Minty Marchmont - Posh Nosh

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