Hi All,
Porch framing is being inspected tomorrow, if it passes I plan on installing mahogany T&G decking, perpendicular to the house. Going with stainless fasteners, and I was leaning towards staples. Plan on using them inside as well when I replace that floor, also stainless. Any thoughts on which you prefer. Will be using rented pneumatic either way.
Thanks
Kevin
Replies
I think it is a matter of personal preference. I've used cleats, staples and the old PC shark tooth nails. They are all difficult to take up. The old guys I used to work with, I'm now one of the old guys, would only use cleats or the tooth nails in manual nailers - that is what they had always used and they wanted to stick to it. I use which ever the wood flooring manufacturer suggests, if it is staples then so be it, if it is cleats, then OK. I switched over to an air nailer in the 60's and I have no plans to go back to a manual.
Stainless cleats in a manual nailer. You need the real impact of the rubber headed sledge hammer to tighten things up and staples just don't cut it for me. But that's my opinion for what it's worth.
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real impact of rubber mallet. I'd think air impact would be ok, do you see a difference in how tight joint is with manual vs. air?
do you see a difference in how tight joint is with manual vs. air?
No. Either does a good job. If your flooring is real bent you may have to work to get the t&g lined up, but you'll do that with both. A hand nailer will start to drive the cleat/staple when you hit the plunger, it you aren't anywhere near lined up, bashing the #### out of the tool won't work any better than the air assist. For the few times you need to persuade the boards together a well placed chisel to pull it in will do just fine. A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
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I like a pneumatic stapler. Cleats will work just fine, but my experience with the staples is that they hold just as well with less chance for splitting the board.
I don't find any need to beat the flooring into place. With our Bostitch MIIIFS, a firm whack will snug the groove up to the tongue and actuate the driver, which provides a little more force.
The manual nailers work, but I think the pneumatics are better because your hits at the end of the day have just as much force as the first hundred of the morning. I haven't used a manual nailer much, but the time I spent on one was enough for me.
The thread "hand nailing better than pneumatic." seems to be focused on framing nails, but I think the same principle applies to flooring nailers. I like the air gun to do a lot of the work for me.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Did a porch floor recently with T&G ipe . Used SS trim head screws. Anything ipe has to be predrilled. Worked out well, but slow install. Make sure to lay out the boards to acclimate for a few days.
So how did "Cleats" come by that name? Just something I have always wondered.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
decking is sitting in one of those canvas type garages, 20 feet from porch, pretty sure it's acclimated. The flooring I'll be putting down inside the house will need to be brought there, currently in my garage at home, 60 miles away. Using prefinished white oak, does it matter what the species of wood is, more days to acclimate for some vs others?
I would think it would matter with the type of wood , depending on its density , and content as some wood is very oily. With the oak I would recommend a full week at the conditions inside the house . This time of year that means with the heat on around here, as it will shrink as it dries more once the heat is on.
I don't know for sure, but I would think that you would want to do it as mentioned with the ipe. Predrill and screw. I did my front porch a few years ago with the "mahogany". I think they actually call it santos mahogany, which is a hard tropical wood, but not a real mahogany. Anyway, after I received my wood, I determined that it is indeed a very hard wood. I couldn't count on it not being destroyed without predrilling. It also was too expensive to chance it. I predrilled every single board at every single joist, and screwed it down with stainless screws. It took forever!! Not a single board was damaged though. Four years later I don't regret the added effort. Nothing loose, no squeeks, and no gaps have formed.
If you are finishing it, I highly recommend the Sikkens DEK finish. It really brings out the beauty of the wood, and it has a subtle gloss. I've found it to be very durable. 4 years with no recoat, and it still looks great! Only downside is that snow makes it very slippery.
heard good things about Sikkens. Did you screw because manufacturer recommends it? I bought this used, only one year old and homeowners wanted it out. It was cupping, carpenter who did the install and removal was there when I picked it up. He said the manufacturer wants 12" air space beneath as a minimum, this had 3" which the architect said would be ok, obviously it wasn't. It was screwed like you describe.
I have no idea who the manufacturer was. I ordered it from the lumber yard, and it came with no labels, instructions or recommendations. I generally go overkill when I do things, so that may have helped lead me to my installation method. I bought a couple different sizes of those all-in-one countersinking bits with the pilot drill bit and found the one that was just right for my application. All are drilled at an angle through the tongue, so there are no exposed fasteners.Hopefully your application will keep the underside completely dry. My front porch covers the old coal bins that are part of my basement. The basement is pretty dry. I think that this is one of the reasons that the finish is holding up so well. The Sikkens DEK specifically mentions the necessity of a dry underside. It does form a bit of a film, (like polyurethanes) which can peel if there is significant vapor pressure occuring under the finish. As I recall, the Sikkens also recommends finishing the underside of the wood before putting it down. I did not do this since I knew that moisture was not going to be a big issue from below.