I started a thread in Insulation about insulating in steel studs. But I started wandering into general framing questions. So here I jumped.
I’ll be framing steel stud walls around the perimeter of a basement. If I frame them lying down, I’ll have to shim my top track for irregularities in height. If I frame in place, I won’t be easily able to fasten the back flange into the tracks. Think it’s possible to reach in to screw through the back flange from the front? Will the screw bite at the angle, or skitter and go flying?
Also, what about bracing for deflection, since I won’t be sheathing the back sides of the studs? My internet search shows some studies on various methods of bracing, but as far as I can tell, the requirements are for stud heights 10’+.
Am I being foolish in attempting a crash course in steel framing? Is the advantage of steel studs over wood enough to justify solving all these problems? I just got this job and am squeezing it in on the quick because of inclement weather. I start in two days.
Replies
Trying to place a panhead screw though the stud and into the track is a PITA. I use a crimping tool for those back edges. It is not as final as a screw, but does keep the stud from twisting. A good supply house should have the tools.
I place the floor track and plumb up to place the top track. Studs go in next, cut short of the exact height by 1/4" to 1/2", depending on how flat the floor or overhead joist are. You can railroad the dw for tapered joints every 4' if you want. If you do , leave every break stud loose, so you can adjust it to center. Another thing to do on vertcal breaks is to add a doulbe stud (back to back ][ ), agian loose untill you hang the board.
For those areas that you feel you need a little more bracing, just throw in a brace to the masonary wall. You have already read about the hoizontal bracing, so with a kicker here and there to the block wall, you are good to go.
Now is also a good time to think about your finish trim. Add wood blocking in advance and you won't be back here asking about metal studs and attaching base, cassing, crown, etc.
Dave
Dave, thanks for all the info. Two comments/questions:
1. "railroad the dw"?
2. I read the threads about attaching base to steel framing. Most comments I've read talk about glue and angled nails. That'll work for me. I will, however, add blocking for the ends of base runs at door casings. Also, I'll overframe my door rough openings so that I can add 2x4s for blocking.
Stand them on the 4' end.
I call it railroading, because if the ceiling is dw too, and the butts line up, it looks like RR tracks up the wall, accross the ceiling, and down the other wall.
I try to encourage drop ceilings for finished basements. Makes future access to any mechanicals in the joist space a lot easier than a finished dw ceiling. Still have all the soffit for duct runs, pipes, etc. but the next guy in to do some repair will really love your work. Even a handy home owner will like it sooner than later.
Dave
Hello again. OK, I understand the RR thing.
Yes, we'll be doing the drop ceiling. Except in one area that is to be a bedroom. No mechanicals overhead there.
What do you think about lights in a grid ceiling? I've always used and seen fluorescents, but the HOs want can lights. Seems like it would take quite a few of them to disperse any light throughout the room. We're doing about 600sf in one area and 200 in another.
One thing you can do is provide several cans on dimmers for normal lighting, while separately switching a few 2x2 or 2x4 flourescents for bright lighting. Here's an example of 2 eyeball cans in cabinet/bookshelf area, with a couple more in an adjacent part of the large space. Notice how the light arcs off the cans. You have to get the right combination and location to create the proper mood.
Unlit 2x4 lay in's in the second pic. Both cans and lay in's lit in the third. Light colored ceiling and walls don't need a can in every tile to brighten the room. A can every 40/50 sf is usually pretty good. Layins add to taste, 2x2's a bit more pleasing to the eye in a ceiling tho more $ than 2x4's. Switching is an important consideration in a room this large. They'd be pissed if they have to walk a mi. to turn that light out. Some wish to combo groups of cans to further the ability to adjust the amount of light. Think about the possibility to wash the wall with sconces. There's some nice lighting out there. Hey, best of luck.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Thanks Calvin. I'll show your pix and post to the HOs.
de nada tim.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Nice work Calvin. Your pictures and explanation of the lighting are better than I could have explained.
What is the floor covering?
Dave
Berber w/pad Dave.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
no need to screw the back,,but if you want to
it's not difficult--a clamp helps. Bracing not necessary either. If it were taller you might brace it with with a cold rolled channel in the holes or a horizontal stud at midheigth screwed to the back side(this would require moving the wall away to make room) This strongback could then be fastened to the foundation wall.Another method would be installing a clip at midpoint of each stud & fastening to the ext. wall. Remember to add blocking for base,cabinets,curtain rods,etc.
Edited 2/8/2004 12:51:06 PM ET by BKHY
That's twice that blocking for base has been mentioned. You block horizontally between each stud for base? Or screw a scrap piece of 2x4 vertically into the bottom of the stud?
If I remember, the studs are C shaped rather than U shaped. In order to put blocking in horizontally, you'd have to dado out a groove to fit into the lip of the C. Right?
One of my goals in framing with steel is to eliminate the sawdust mess in the house. If I have to do all that wood machining, I'm defeating that purpose. Yeah, I could do it outside in the snow and ice.
Thanks for your post.
Most cut a groove in the blocking to accept the flange of the stud---However not necessary for base,just cut pieces to fit loosely between studs(14" for 16" o.c.) and screw to bottom track, run a couple screws through the rock into the blocking to pull them tight to the drywall. Then avoid the studs when nailing base.
Edited 2/8/2004 10:29:31 PM ET by BKHY
Dear Tim, I've done quite a few basement jobs just as you describe let me add a few points to what the other guys have already said.
1. I always drape a sheet of visqueen down the wall and under the bottom plate before framing , staple to the mudsill and caulk the seams.
2. Check the block for plumb, if need be you can hold the track away from the block to allow for out of plumb conditions.
3. I use the afformentioned crimping tool to do the back of the studs
4. I always screw a 3" pc of osb to the bottom of the studs/track before hanging the board, this way I can shoot the base directly to the osb, with a bead of PL400.
5. I make any rough openings 3" larger and screw 2x4 wood studs inside the opening so I can fasten my doors and trim.
Hope this helps
Katmagnum
Thanks much for your pointers and info. You and others have been a great help.
Those are some really good ideas. The only thing we make sure we do when framing with metal studs is not tie them to masonry walls unless they are fully insulated. The temperature can transfer to the metal studs and you can actually see the studs shadowed on the drywall. Use a vapor barrier whenever possible to avoid this problem.
i like the osb idea.
quick , inexpensive, efficient.
good call
thanks