I was curious about the method of attaching a deck ledger when you are doing a 6″ step down to the outside deck? Also – I am planning on using some 1″ spacers between the PT ledger and the Rimboard.
Assuming 11-7/8″ I-joists and rimboard (deck ledgers will be perpendicular to I-joist direction)
Soooo – Do I just lag the upper half of the PT to the lower half of the rimboard, or do I plan on anchoring the PT to the foundation and the rimboard? Anyone care to throw out a recommended lag schedule, too?
http://jhausch.blogspot.com
Adventures in Home Building
An online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
Adventures in Home Building
An online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
Replies
Time to buy a deck building instruction book available for under $20 at any of the big boxes. They all have drawings,schedules and material specifications.
Framkie
There he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.
—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
Welcome to Breaktime, Fine Homebuilding's online forum, where you can learn from the veterans, share your own secrets of success, and simply chat about all aspects of home building.View ImageNo matter how diverse our backgrounds, we have at least one thing in common: We're all interested in improving our home-building skills and techniques. Joining the Breaktime community is one of the most entertaining and enlightening ways to get there. Whether you're a beginner looking for help with your first project or an expert eager to pass along time-savers and tips, you'll find what you're looking for right here. Before you jump in, we have some simple requests that will keep the conversation flowing:For beginners...Don't be afraid to ask questions. Our forum is teeming with great minds waiting to be tapped.Let us know how it went. We'll toast your hits and troubleshoot your misses.And...Remember us when you make it to the big leagues. When you're all out of questions, come back ready with answers.For veterans...Show new folks the ropes. The larger the community, the richer the discussion.Share your new ideas -- even if they're just hunches. Your hunch could fuel the next great home-building discovery.And...Be open to new ideas from others. "The best way to have a good idea is to have a lot of ideas." -Dr. Linus Pauling
Silly me - I thought I'd get better advice than "buy a book" . . .
By the way, love your favorite quote (according to your profile) - "It's better to prove ignorance by asking questions than be silent and remain forever stupid."
Edited 4/10/2006 5:12 pm by jhausch
Why are you getting your knickers in a bunch? My response is genuine and frank. Rather than someone drawing diagrams and sketches, spec mechanical connection schedules for a variety of fasteners, house materials (framing type, foundation type) and length of deck, purchasing one of the well written How-To books will serve you better.Building a deck is not like applying trim or hanging a door. It is structural, and whether it is 6" or 6' above grade, others' safety is contingent on proper design and construction. This is best learned from hands-on experience and books - not in a website forum, regardless of how well intended its members are.Getting information here, at BT, is so easy and so much fun, we all at times need to be reminded of BT's - and our own - limitations. This is understandable.I was not trying to be cute, smart or sarcastic. My previous and this response is not a personal attack. Instead I gave you my best advice even if it did not meet YOUR expectations.I wish you well.FrankieThere he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
Edited 4/10/2006 6:17 pm ET by Frankie
For beginners...Don't be afraid to ask questions. Our forum is teeming with great minds waiting to be tapped.Let us know how it went. We'll toast your hits and troubleshoot your misses.And...Remember us when you make it to the big leagues. When you're all out of questions, come back ready with answers.
UHH ... Rule Number One ...
Don't believe everything ya read ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
C'mon Jeff - you can be helpful when you want to, too
That, or do I doubt everything I read, including "Artistry in Construction" ;-P
all smoke and mirrors ..
clever marketing, that sorta thing.
I didn't think the book/video such a bad idea ...
at least it'll probably give a coupla crazy solutions for us to pick apart?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Sometimes "buy a book" is the best advice. Chill -- I've gotten excellent advice from BTers and I've also bought books. The Taunton book on deck building is outstanding.
PT together with I Joist? What kind of deck are you building? What kind of I joist are you using?
Why I joist? Am I missing something here, aren't I joist an interior product?
I asking questions now. I do not want to remain forever stupid. They are coming up with new products everyday. I have been in the building business for 34 years and have never seen I joist outside under a deck.
Edit: Oh yea, I am curious about the use of a rim joist and a ledger. All the ledgers I have used never needed a rim joist at the same location. Another way to look at it: I consider that if the item (foundation / wall / other) that the ledger is attached to is removed, the ledger becomes a rim joist.
A good book on deck building would show this detail.
Edited 4/10/2006 6:38 pm ET by txlandlord
To Clarify - the rimboard and I-joist are the INTERIOR floor system. The deck ledger would be outside and (presumably) would attach to the rimboard. All of the exterior deck/platform structural components will be PT, except for the decking - that will probably be synthetic.
I understand your point about just replacing the rimboard with PT and using it as the ledger. I think the engineered floor folks are pretty persinickity about using the precise dimension rimboard and using their "superthick OSB" version.
I think I will defer this question to the engineered floor folks to see what they say.
http://jhausch.blogspot.comAdventures in Home BuildingAn online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
I would consult with the building dept. and the I joist manufacturer. A lot of times they have very specific info when installing a ledger on the propietary rim board.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
We may have been typing simultaneously - I think that consulting the mfg is exactly what I will do.
I was wondering if anyone here had experienced this previously.
It is here that I got the idea to drop the deck down from the interior deck - fron Piffin I think. It seems that same-level decks are the norm around here, but perhaps not the best solution in snow country.
OK, I have clarity.
I do not live in snow country, but can understand dropping the deck for snow reasons.
Weatherproof the rim board with siding, sheathing or something, and bolt the ledger. We typically use 3/8" or 7/16" lags screws @ 16" O.C. staggered top and bottom. Lag screw length depends on total depth of all material. You should have no problem using this method.
Some type of spacers 3/4" x 3'4' PT or other between the ledger and rim joist finish material will allow weeping of water.
I can now see why you need a rim joist and ledger in the same location. Here in TX 98% of projects are concrete foundations.
"We typically use 3/8" or 7/16" lags screws @ 16" O.C. staggered top and bottom"
This is the part that has me a bit "flummoxed". Assuming I am using 2x10 or 2x12 ledger, the ledger and rimboard will only share 4" or 5" of vertical surface area. Also, since I will be spacing it an inch or so away from the rimboard, the bottom half may have the tendency to twist back towards the foundation.
I think, for spacers, I may need to pre-install the lower spacers that will touch the foundation - those will attach only to the ledger. The upper lags that do the holding in shear - I will still stagger them, but I may go to 12" oc.
You may need to block under the ledger, the same thickness as the ledger. Blocking does not need to be solid.
Since this is all new construction (it is, isn't it, or have I gotten that wrong), I'd be inclined to running bolts through from the inside of the house's floor framing. That means you are engaging, as it were, the entire section of the house's rim, rather than just the "penetration cone" of the lags.
Don't forget to put some sill seal under the spacer blocks where they touch the foundation--it's an easy thing to miss, and keeping lumber out of contact of concrete is just about universally good.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Although, ultimately, I will follow the floor mfg rec's if there is one - the picture in my mind is headed in the direction you are describing.
Nuts and Bolts 12" oc with large diameter washers
1" Spacers btw ledger and rim
Blocking behind rim if necessary (if the floor mfg puts an Ijoist in right next to the rim, for example)
spacers for lower half of ledger of appropriate length - held off the foundation by a something like sill seal or similar. . .
etc.
Thanks
Why not just dig down and catch the existing footer, you can use 6x6 posts and install a new beam and not have to worry about the ledger or flashing issues?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Interesting thought - you are suggesting that I run a 6x6 down to the footing that is under the basement wall and fully support the deck that way - only gaining lateral stability from the tie-in to the rimboard?
Hmmm . . . .I would think you 'd want to bump out the footing in that area to properly accomodate the post. We are using form-a-drain for the footings and would not want the weight of the post potentially cracking those things. . . .nor would I want to put my mason through the "hassle" of a bunch of tiny formadrain bumpouts.
I was planning on having the PT posts carrying the "outboard" end of the deck sit on 12" concrete filled sonotubes, only covering the bottom portion of the PT post as dictated by the final grading of the lot. I guess I could put some tubes 1' away from the house.
I don't think that is a fit for my application, but it does present an interesting idea, thanks..
i agree with my fellow virginian - concrete in 6x6 or 4x4 post to support the ledger up against the house. "residential structure and framing" from the editors of the journal of light construction makes a great case for getting away from bolting a ledger board to the house (article is titled "deck support: making the crucial connections"). i bulid the decks for our new construction houses and find it easier and cheaper (galzanized bolts, nuts and washers are pretty expensive) to build this way. not to mention, the structure is more sound and you're not penetrating (and then trying to flash/seal/whatever) the exterior shell.
books are our friends,
jud - chesapeake, va
We must have been typing simultaneously -
I will give that approach a second thought. . . .
After reading all these posts and seeing some of the suggestions, for what the're worth, here are mine: I'd bolt (not lag) to the rimjoist every 2 feet and through the foundation every 4 feet. use half inch bolts (maybe need pieces of all-thread thru the foundation). probably the most important part of the whole thing is waterproofing, if water can penetrate to the rim joist you have just built a very expensive failure. Jim Devier
You are getting lots of advice and options regarding how to approach building your deck. I think that is great and illustrates how many options there are to address structural concerns and how much one needs to take into consideration when tackling such a project.This wealth of info though can be a bit misleading and lull you into a false sense of security. You see, the bolt or lag schedule is relative to how far the deck extends from the house. You have not as of yet offerred this info and no one has asked. This kinda disqualifies the schedules suggested thus far. Buy a book, or don't buy a book. Just be 110% sure you get it right - the first time.FrankieThere he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas