Talk to me about those Therma Tru
You know I’m not a big fan of them, but I had a request today that a TT might be the answer for.
Over half my complaints about the TT have been in the setting, which you’ve explained is relative to the jobber assembling the package and not the door company.
The other problem I’ve had is with warpage at teh knob set cuttout weakening the slab.
So here is the situation-
There is an exterior wall for wind block on a porch. The existing wood door gets replaced every 8-10 years. Lot of wind, rain, splashing, etc. The caretaker asked me if I could get a steel door to hanf there that would last longer, but this place sits so close to the salt water that I fear it would be suffering boils in a few years.
So, If I werre to go with a FG door, which model should I be specing?
I’ll see if I have a photo or two to show the setting. I’m doing some Fypon railings at this time.
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I like the TT products. I too have had problems with a fabricator. I also do not like the vinyl composite jambs I recently used (Architect speced) they seem to move to much. 1 day they are great and the next they expand with temp change and want to stick. One word of caution on the TT's, remember that the wood inserts for hinge and lock are finger joint pine and need to be caulked (I like Sika-flex), primed (X-I-M or Gripper) and painted well or they will fail quickly. Also I bevel the bottoms to keep a uniform reveal in comparison to the bevel on the outswing t-hold and prime and paint it also(the bottom looks like a resorcinal particle board). With a little care they are a good alternative to high$$$ clad units which I think are starting to show a high failure rate in my area (FLA).
Jeez, he doesn't look like he's hurtin', why put a regular old manufactured door on that cottage. I'd recommend him something custom out of teak or real Mahogany, something that'll match the yacht that he likely has up on blocks at the moment.
That's a possibility too. I tried to pose this to Stinger for his opinion 'cause he worked for TT once. but his name came up as guest above.Anyway, I'm considering all the options.And no - my clients don't have to dig too deep to be able to pay me, but this one is actually hurting a bit in another way lately. He just had open heart surgery for a triple bypass. Puts things in perspective.
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I'd send him some a get well card. That's one client worth keeping around.
Piffin-
There is a search bar you get after clicking 'Show More Visitors' in the lower left.
You can type 'Stinger' in it and his name will come up. Click on it to get his profile. You can then email him direct thru there.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Is that how it works!?I made my origianl that normally goes to ALL, and then used the spare window there to type in Stinger - spelled it right and everything, but it still came up as guest
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yes, typing in a Breaktime name will not guarantee entrance into the normal operation of BT mailings.
What will work is typing in a name after clicking the 'others' tab. However that name must be the given name that is produced on the Prospero/Taunton registry which is not always the same name as what is given here on the board.
For example, if someone were to want to send you a post thru the board here, typing 'piffin' in the 'Others' window won't work, as your Taunton/Prospero registry name is PIFIN, not Piffin.
Confusing? ya, but it gets worse.
If you click the blue arrow before the 'Others' tab, if the name piffin is already placed in that listing, then just clicking on the name will get the mail to you.
Something to do with it already being listed in the thread or something. Perhaps Luka could expound a bit more on what process is used to select the names in a thread like that besides those names that have already made a post to that thread.
So, to address a post to a particular individual not in the pull down list you have to have their registry name, usually different in some respect from their Breaktime name.
Luka is LUKA17, Mooney is TIMMOONEY52 but JIMBLODGETT and JUNKHOUND are jimblodgett and junkhound respectively.
Roar! I remember it doesn't seem that awful long ago you were explaining to me how to post a pic without having the KBs going into four digits!
Then again, take the Australian chap johnAwalker, the BT name.
In the Taunton/Prospero registry it is JOHNAWALKER, but I don't know if the letters in a Taunton/Prospero name are case sensitive, meaning if you type in johnawalker instead of johnAwalker or JOHNAWALKER you might or might not get the mail sent. roar!
be eating a Rolaid
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Edited 1/29/2006 1:01 am ET by razzman
That's no place for a cheap fiberglass door. Get a good local doormaker to use pattern-grade mahogany to make one.
What is the failure mode of the doug fir doors that are crapping out every ten years?
I agree. A custom made can be had easily I'd think in Maine, plenty of craftsmen if Paul couldn't fab one up hisself.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Here is what I've been fabbing up lately to replace the cuttout urn style railing. This is Fypon molded stuff
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The handrail is beautiful work however the backdrop is more so.
Million dollar view. Handrail values are appropiately matched to the view.
Yeah, Fypon thought so when they bought a few others for their catalouge 2 or 3 years ago
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Don't want you thinking I can't do real wood carpentry though. Here is one we laminated and turned from red cedar.
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After getting familiar with you through your post, I would not expect anything less.
I am glad you got over your Pimpin Gansta ways, and applied yourself to someting worthwhile.
Dang, you're hard on an old hippie, you old hippie!
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Go here http://www.thermatru.com/Downloads/Shop3/Door%20Slab%20Trimming.pdf
And then surf around in the rest of the shop manual for good info on TT doors and distributor shop practice.
Thanks
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Sorry, I did not mean to be hard on anyone. I am not sure what I said, which is better that when I was head over heals in the hippie culture. Then, I did not know where I wuz, cuz.
The wiz wuz duz what we wants...nothing required apology. I was funning. Like your style. Wwe have some things in common
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I already have a price for a custom mahogany made with the setting as a consideration. But I always check the alternatives.
Also a price for painting it with various products from epoxy paint to All-grip. The latter is as expensive as the door itself.The existing seems to have had two problems. You can see narrow stiles? They bought a 3'0" door for a 2'10" jamb. That comes of caretakers trying to do a carpenter's job. He has learned to let me handle things like this now, and a previous owner was a cheaper sort of human being.
So - they ripped an inch off each flank stile. The bottom was never painted, so when the snow and ice built up on the deck, the door licked it right up like a cat aat the milk bowl. Add to that - The bottm of the panel is a location that can let water into the dado and trap it there, contributing to swelling and breaking the bottom joints apart. IMO, it was a cheaper door to begin with too. Caretaker said it's the second one in his tenure.
This one will be the last. I told him I'd find one that would outlast him or me.
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What is "all-grip"
It is a paint the boat yards use for FG and wood boats and parts. I'm not sure what the chemical nature of it is, but it's pretty much bulletproof. Special applicator does it. I don't know if a special franchise or not.
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I believe that's "Awlgrip". Good stuff.
Alan
$$$ I assume?
Yeah,I have since done a little googling. I can buy the product from Jamestoen distributors, but they say it takes special degree of skill to apply and it looks like it should be sprayed. It would cost about as much as the door itself to have it done.A couple other products nearly as good are a urethyne paint and an epoxy paint one step process.the same product is apparantly marketed under two names, AWLgrip for boats/maritime and ALLgrip for aircraft.
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My thought would be to use the best product possible, even if it cost's as much as the door itself, it's still cheaper then having to replace the door every 10 years... providing the finish would in fact last darn near indefinitely.
It should be a relatively easy sell to the customer though, either put the door in and pay out the nose now for rock solid finish, or pay through the nose every 10 years... that is if they plan to keep the property or keep it in the family.
Not sure I would want to take on the actually application of the product though, seems like a good way to put a bad finish on a perfectly innocent door ;)
It is a two part ureathane.I have never been around when it was shot on planes, but I have seen some of the residue left in mixing cans. It is a very rubbery when cured in bulk.
your correct on the application of awlgrip in marine applications. Generally it is used on the deck and different courses of sand is added depending on the clients wish ie: slip factor. Most boatyards can spray this for you and it is not a real special item for them. I believe it does have some type of rubber (lack of better term) in it.
Why not use west system epoxy and apply the pigment (white) to mix. I have done this many of times and rolled the surface, appears like a oiled paint finish when completed. It is labor intensive to get final result, however it will be water tight like a frogs arse.
Good thoughtsThe boatyard here has a guy who comes through and does all their Awlgrip work once a year. it comes out glass smooth though
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I'd suggest get one milled to match the existing glass and mill work exactly.
drop the handle height ... make the door and window mullions all line up ... it'd make for a taller section of panes .... then duplicate that scroll work on the bottom panels.
piece of cake!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
The new ballusters are turned, not scrolledother than that, fine, package it up thataway. How much is your consultation fee?BTW, is this your first serious reply this week? LOL
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not the ballusters ... I'm talking about the "looks like" fret work in the door pic.
what's the door we're replacing, right?
I gotta go look again at what we're looking at.
and ... uh .. yeah ... might be my most serious post this week!
Mike's right ... giddy with SuperBowl aspirations ...
and as of today ... just might make "too much work" ... work out prefectly. If the planets align ... it'll all fall into place ... everyone happy ... with no expectations set ... and I make good money all the way around. If not ... I'm still busy ... most are happy ... and no one's really upset ... 'cause they all know they called last minute!
Me ... I prefer the "everyone happy/ I make more money" deal ...
Either way.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
View Image
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Edited 1/28/2006 1:02 am ET by JeffBuck
that one ... I see scroll work under them windows.
is this the door in question?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
That's the door getting replaced. The 'fretwork' is also getting replaced. WE will remove the panels, and place new top and bottom rails to match the rest of the railing, new panels of MDO, then half ballusters on either side of that. It then breaks the wind but looks like the same railing as to the outside. You an sit there and read your Investors Business Daily and NYTimes over morning coffee without the breeze making it hard to do.Anyway, running the frills across the door bottom half will probaly be overdoing it, but I do like the thought of dimensioning the door to line up the muntins with the rest of the glass wall
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Good eye oh Pittsburg Poke. (another word for Cowboy).
I understood.
Piff says he is replacing the balusters. Maybe the scroll panel wainscote will stay and your idea (mathcing the scroll pattern on the doors lower half) will get done.
Dynomite! (Sweeeeeet! for the youngsters)
So when are you leaving to be down here for the SB Party?
Should I call my mom in Memphis and tell them you will be stopping by?
Although I am considered an old hippie by most who know me, in true redneck fashion, I have a refrigerator on my back porch. I can adapt and learn from other cultures.
Back in the day, it would have been nice to have a fridge on the back porch (when I was able to find it) with munchies and something to drink, stored for those smokey ole nights.
OK, I understand a little better. A fiberglass door might be the right answer.
The ThermaTru CC48 style, two panels below a half light of glass, is made in a fullwidth-stile 2/8 width. That means it is not a cutdown . . . a door made with a skin sized for 3/0 that gets 2 inches whacked from each side before makeup.
The door will be painted, as I can see in the photos. The molded-in oak-look grain of the ClassicCraft door will not clash too bad with the adjoining smooth painted millwork. But it is the Classic Craft door you want. It is the only one in their lineup with a big beefy stile on its latch edge.
Some of the ThermaTru doors at 2/8 width are made beginning with 3/0 skins, and some not. The CC48 has its own molded skin for the 2/8 width, and you will get true proportions and fullwidth stiles.
Get the door made by the doorshop and give explicit instructions for them to ship you the door bottom loose, not applied. That will give you the opportunity to prime and seal the endgrain of the stiles at their bottoms, and then silicone the door bottom in place. No water wick-up is what you want, and you cannot rely on the door distributor to do this seal-up the way you need.
Finally, regarding the primer and finish, phone ThermaTru's Butler, Indiana, location. Ask to speak with Dave Sentel, and give him my regards. Tell him you are doing a saltwater-front installation of a ClassicCraft, and ask him for the best combination of primer and topcoat for longevity.
They do a lot of finish testing in Butler, or they did when I was there. Periodically, we would go out and buy quarts and gallons of every commercially available primer and paint we could find. The lab folks would prime and paint, and paint without priming first, test pieces of fiberglass skin material, then put them out on the outdoor weathering racks, plus into chambers that accelerate the cycles of heat, moisture, and UV. The results of the testing were kept handy for answering questions like yours.
Part of this I'm not clear on---Are you saying I would have to cut down a 3'0" door for the 2'10" size or that they can do this and make it look right in a Classic craft model?Also, can they do solid muntins or are they snap on pieces of plastic?
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Whoops! I supposed a 2/8 width, not the 2/10. Sorry. The CC model I spoke of is only made as either a 3/0 or 2/8.
It won't be made with the singlepiece big beefy stile blocking as the CC would, but you might make things work with their SmoothStar fiberglass model.
For your half lite above, your choices for muntins would be to get the door with a plastic lite that has a 9-division lite arrangement of fixed muntins, one made with white metal grillbars in the airspace, or a removable wood grille which mounts to the inside of the unit with metal grille clips.
The SS model is smooth ungrained fiberglass.
My remarks about specifying that you will fieldmount the door bottom still apply, as do the remarks about contacting Dave for a fieldpaint recommendation.
Here is a pic of the SmoothStar model I had in mind.
View Image
It is available in the 2/10 width. Keep in mind that TT makes its doors with widths at book width, i.e., the door slab measures 2/10 in width.
But being a TT fan and regular user, you knew that. ;-)
That shadow line around the lite is telling you the lite frame stands proud of the door, which means it is a screwed-on insert.
If the color of the white paint all round matches the as-delivered color of the white lite frame, leave the frame unpainted. It won't yellow up on you with UV exposure, like the old time styrene frames did, and no paint is better than paint on those frames. A lot of different paints and primers will bond well to an SMC fiberglass skin, but those glassfilled polypropylene lite frames are trickier substrates for a long lasting field paint job.
You gota website handy?
Thanks,
Tim
http://www.thermatru.com
Pretty rich website with a lot of good stuff available as .pdf downloads.
Thanks .
Tim
Stinger,
"leave the frame unpainted"
Thank you for your great experience & advice. I'm looking at my new Smooth Star - the exact same one you posted - and weighing options for how to get it all to the same color.
Piffin, FYI, the white window trim is WHITE - just so ya know - LOL! Definately NOT the same color as the door.
Wayne