Bought a house that was built in 1948. Our inspector said the ground under house was damp in one place but was due to a vent too close to ground level letting rainwater in. Shortly afterwards , our termite guy treated the house for termites and installed a plastic moisture barrier. We then noticed condensation droplets on the plastic. When contractor tried to jack the sagging floor joist, they kept sinking into the ground . He said it was too wet to jack. He decide to install a sump pump. While digging a hole for the pump’s hose, he also found a 4 in clay pipe under the house that was cracked and leaking water. It was in the crawlspace about 18 in blelow ground level . Had the city’s public works and sewer depts out which denied that the pipe was either their storm drain or a sewer pipe. The water has no sewer smell. Dug 4 holes in 4 areas in the crawlspace. In each there is gravel around the clay pipe and the soil is darker than the dirt that is closer to ground level soil. Seems that 2 straight pcs of pipe are joined . Water trickling where joined. The holes that we dug fill up w/ water but only to the level of the pipe-not to ground level. Traced line to front yard about 3-4 ft from foundation. That line ran parallel to the foundation about 2 1/2 ft below ground level. Had same gravel and darker soil. Water was seeping from a crack where the pipes were joined. No sewer smell. Any ideas what these pipes are? Our lot is the last one on a downward sloping street. Next to our house is a creek. If this is simply an old storm drain we can either repair it or cap it off on the edge of our property. If it is a french drain and we cap it, we’ll flood our lot. Our goal is to get the crawlspace to dry out so the joist can be jacked. Thanks. Please forgive the length of this posting.
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Greetings RE,
This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again which will increase it's viewing.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
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Thank you.
My guess it that it's tile intended to drain the crawl. Someone at some time, however, damaged the outlet where it flows into a storm sewer or ditch, and so it's backed up.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
"The holes that we dug fill up w/ water but only to the level of the pipe-not to ground level."
That tells me this is your ground drainage system and that it is working. you can clean out the downhill end to help it work better but capping it would be a disaster
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Thanks for taking the time to reply. Very helpful.
Sounds like you need to find both the origin and the termination of the drain tile. In modern times 4" pipe is not used for any kind of municipal storm drainage (or at least not here) only for sewer laterals. Who knows back then though.
I'd be careful not to damage this pipe though. My experience is with that clay drain tile, if it is broken/crushed/etc it can be difficult or impossible to replace a section - the whole thing could end up needing to be replaced. Since it is active, I'd hazard a guess that it is not optional.
It is a little hard to follow your description. If you had a scanner you could sketch something and then scan it and post it or with drawing program you could do a sketch and post it to help us understand. Attached is one I did for another discussion we had about property drainage. Different scenario - the guy had water building up in front of his house - but you will get the idea...
If I had to guess though, whatever it, I'd guess the drain tail (downstream end of pipe) has been covered, or other wise damaged so that water cannot easily flow out of it. Water always flows to it's easiest exit - sounds like water is backing up in the pipe - the exit is blocked or impeded.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
DanH and Piffen are right.
Clay pipe drainage systems were used extensively around here many years ago. I even have an old book somewhere describing how to install them.
Clay pipe loosely layed end to end with a piece of felt paper lapped over the joints, then a crushed stone fill around all, and a layer of straw on top.
Some ran to daylight. Some to sump pumps.
Sounds like you got a daylight exit set up.
BTW, tell the guy jacking up the joist to spread the load more. I have had to build 4'x4' jacking pads of double layers of 2x10s to keep from sinking the jacks on some soft soils.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Very helpful info. Seems to describe what we are finding in the yard and under the house.
Entirely possible you have uncovered an old field tile drain system.
If so the drains would have been in place long before your house was even built. I have had to deal with this situation 4 times in my career. You will likely never find out the exact extent of the tiling unless you uncover old plat maps of the land when it was farmed. Builders generally didn't dig down below the foundation just to install foundation drainage and the depths you are taking about indicate to me it is field tile. Water source will be the whole neighborhood uphill from you ( unless someone up hill has a basement that interrupts the drain lines).
One solution is to clear the down slope pipe to allow the pipe to work as intended, repair the pipes you have uncovered and add a sump pump for insurance.
Best solution is to dig down on the uphill side of the lot until you uncover the pipes, lay new pipes at that depth and route them around the house and to the creek. BTDT.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Have plumbers there right now doing just that. Hoping it is the right "fix" ! Thanks for your experienced opinion.
Generally field tile will be buried below plow depth -- 18 inches minimum, I'd think. It sounded like this tile was closer to the surface than that. Also, if there's more than one "lateral" under the house then it's probably not field tile -- they generally have laterals 15-30 feet apart, I'd guess, especially with the old clay tile, which was both expensive and labor intensive.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Edited 8/18/2009 11:32 am by DanH
This is what made me think it was field tile: ""It was in the crawlspace about 18 in blelow ground level ""
and
"That line ran parallel to the foundation about 2 1/2 ft below ground level. ""
I am assuming in his first comment he meant 18" below ground level of the crawl space . Either of those depths are well below moldboard plow depth of the older plows that would have been used back in the 1940's Without knowing his location nor his footing depth 30" deep from yard level could easily be well below footing levels. OP doesn't say how far apart the lines are,nor how large the foot print of the crawl space is, just that they located them in 4 places in the crawls space. Would be easy to have laterals 15-20' apart and still have them under the footprint.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Yep, without more info it could go either way.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
"Builders generally didn't dig down below the foundation just to install foundation drainage "More common than you might think at one time, and it all depends on the site, soils, and groundwater situation.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah, I'd say it's highly dependent on local topology, soil, and building practices.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Got any stories? I can imagine it being done but haven't seen the evidence--
I have done it twice myself. The pictures are on the deskPC at home.On this lot where I sit, we weere digging to place a 5' precast pier and broke into one that had water just a gushing out. Never found an open daylight end of it, so we redug and placed new extension to daylight. That one was about 4' down. Most of this site lets you find water at about 30"A block from here is another lot where we renovated about ten years ago. That cellar had water issues, so we dug aropund to place a new perimeter drain to redirect the flow off around and to daylight. We ran into several old lines at about 7-9 feet down, all obviously for drainage.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!