Hi All
A friend of mine wants me to consult on his stucco remediation. The Stucco is not EIFS but a hybrid cement type.
I am going to look for astm standards and anything else I can to prepare.
Anyone here have insight into this process?
Any info is appreciated. [email protected]
Heath
Replies
Greetings Heath,
As a first time poster Welcome to Breaktime.
This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again which will increase it's viewing.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers
"remediation
Main Entry:
re·me·di·a·tion Listen to the pronunciation of remediation
Pronunciation:
ri-ˌmē-dē-ˈā-shən
Function:
noun
Date:
1818
: the act or process of remedying <remediation of reading problems>
— re·me·di·ate Listen to the pronunciation of remediate -ˈmē-dē-ˌāt transitive verb"
"remedy[2,transitive verb]
Main Entry:
2remedy
Function:
transitive verb
Inflected Form(s):
-died; -dy·ing
Date:
15th century
: to provide or serve as a remedy for : relieve <remedy a social evil>"
What PROBLEM are you trying to fix?
I have never heard Remdaition used with Stucco.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
You may not have heard of it, but there are plenty of people with failing EIFS that need it. The bills run anywhere from $10K to $250K. My brother in law in GA had both mold and termites from poorly installed EIFS and it cost him $36K to fix/remidiate two exterior walls.
But "The Stucco is not EIFS"And even if it was EFIS.Even in your BIL case the problem was not the stucco. It was the problems cause by the stucco.So my question is still valid.What is the problem that he is trying to remediate..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
thanks for taking interest in my question.I'll do my best to explainThe Stucco is not EIFS it is a hybrid that does not have the polymer based coating. It was supposed to be installed with similar flashing, back-wrapping, expansion joints and other details that are, as I understand it, required to prevent failure in most stucco systems. Basically the builder incorrectly installed it and the owner is asking me to oversee the removal of the failed sections, repair of sheathing, and proper installation of the stucco, The problem is water intrusion that is siphoning through small cracks on the southeast exposure. No other walls have problems Heath
The Stucco is not EIFS it is a hybrid that does not have the polymer based coating. It was supposed to be installed with similar flashing, back-wrapping, expansion joints and other details that are, as I understand it, required to prevent failure in most stucco systems. Basically the builder incorrectly installed it and the owner is asking me to oversee the removal of the failed sections, repair of sheathing, and proper installation of the stucco,
Ah, that helps. Now, EIFS is not any stucco with a polymeric coating applied. Applying polymeric finish coats on any stucco is problematic. But, mis-applying stucco is pretty much "bad" by any definition.
So, really, you are remediating "hack" wall finishing. Specifically, bad flashing and details.
I'd make sure to have a limiting clause written up by somebody before entering into a job like this. Why so? Well, if the hack who did this, this badly with one thing, there's likely more. Further, you have a situation where water damage was only detected after a great while. Water is insidious once inside a structure. Just because a given wall show no sign of leakage does not necessarily mean it is "ok" (may just means it drains better to somewhere else).
It's not just you that may need the limit here--the HO may need one too, if you get a wall open and find sheathing just gone, rotted away, with dozens of studs compromised, then sills, then . . . thus the needed limit.
But, otherwise it sounds like you are on the right track, get down to the structure, and build up from there in the correct manner.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Thanks for the adviseSo now I need to find the manufacturers or others standards for remediation and installation of this product.I firstly need to identify it, then become familiar with the industry standards for remediation of this particular product. I see lots of grey areas in this job. I am not planning on removing everything, just problem areas, and I am going to need to make decisions one which areas to not remove, on the areas I remove, when to stop, ect.Is ASTM the place to look? Heath
going to need to make decisions one which areas to not remove, on the areas I remove, when to stop, ect.
Well, I've browsing my library of 'stuff' looking for some sort of guideline or standard.
Mostly, all I'm finding are galvanized control & expansion joint shape cut-sheets <grrrr>.
Which may be the problem, there's not just one simple source for some of this, at least not piled up in my stack-o'-stuff. I know where to find the window maker's stucco details, the CJ/EJ cut sheets, that sort of thing. But nothing that says, thou shalt build thusly or be weighed again a duck for ballance.
Now, my (old) stucco guy never, ever, wanted paint or sealing film applied over his work. Now, seeing as how stucco "ought" be built on top of felt (30# is my preference, learned from Maestro Luiz), with a base coat in expanded metal lath, and brown coat over that, then a finish coat--that construction only has one direction to "release" any moisture, which would be out to the outside. Of course, that posits that there is not moisture inside the wall system trying to get through the sheathing, too.
Thus, my original worry. If the windows & doors were not flashed correctly, if the joints were not detailed correctly,water has been geting inside the wall. And the insulation, and wandering where it must go by gravity, conserving angular momentum all the way.
Dunno.
I suppose you could "sound" the stucco in the suspect areas, tapping to listen for hollowness, followed up with a thorough survey of the interios drywall opposite that. Mind you, tapping with a rubber mallet or dead blow hammer might "scab" off stucco in larger-than-wanted peices (as in larger than you want to leave open to weather overnight, or how ever long).
I'm just getting flashbacks for the easy swap-french door-for-junk slider job, where the hacks had ripped the veneer brick out, slapped up plywood on the studds, and single-coat parged the difference. They "filled in" the weep holes "them kack masons left in'yr' wall" too. 40' of wall stripped slab to soffit later . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
First there is a guy that has written a couple of articles on Stucco and at least mentioned the one/two coat systems, I don't remember the details, for JLC. I remember that he was big about the proper detailing needed.To to jlconline.com. You can look up articles in the research tab.Also go the forums, Building Science.There was a recent discussion about moisture meters to detect bad (wet) areas in walls.Also try and see if you can find the brand name of this system and look up there installation instructions..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Googled "Hybrid Stucco." Found:From http://www.inspection1.com/types/stucco/types.htm
1) The stucco is a manufacturer designed system; or
2) The stucco is a combination of two or more manufacturer products used in the same application; or
3) The stucco is a completely custom application using non-specific components and materials.From http://www.buildernewsmag.com/viewnews.pl?id=39
A key innovation in the past two decades has been hybrid or modified cement stuccos, often called one-coat stucco systems. These contain fiber glass or polypropylene fibers and other proprietary additives...From http://www.usinspect.com/car/0603Stucco3.asp
U.S. Inspect defines Hybrid stucco as a system that falls outside the design and components of the following standard systems: Conventional or EIFS Class-PB (barrier EIFS). . . U.S. Inspect groups these non-standard systems in the class of hybrid to limit the amount of confusion that can occur when systems are named. Also, due to the similarities of some systems, they truly cannot be determined without a sample of the product being laboratory-analyzed to determine the proprietary mixture of the base and finish coat.. . . Hybrid stucco systems have the same problems that any other exterior claddings are prone to producing. Improper installation methods (non-adherence to specifications, shoddy workmanship, mixing materials from various manufacturers, etc.) can cause a number of problems, which may not manifest themselves for many years. One common concern with Hybrid systems is the typical presence of foam-insulating products. Foam is a red flag for many people because it is one of the key components of the controversial Class PB EIFS system. However, there is very little known data to support, whether foam is a factor in problems with Hybrid stucco. **********************
Which just goes to show everybody that the term "Hybrid Stucco" is too vague to answer any qwuestions that use it.In any case, it doesn't change my first reply.
SamT
Anyone here have insight into this process?
Remove stucco; Repair structure; Wrap and flash; Trim; Apply new stucco.
SamT
Edited 6/25/2007 9:29 pm by SamT