Replies

1. 
   BossHog | Jan 17, 2003 10:16pm | #1

   What you're getting into will depend a great deal on building codes/restrictions in that area.

   They might require you to put in streets, curbs, gutters, storm sewers, and anything else the code officials can dream up. Since that varies a great deal from city to city I doubt anyone can tell you much unless they happen to live in the area.

   And the whole project could be scrapped if the area is deemed a wetland, or has endangered plants or animals on it.

   Snowmobiles: Natural selection at its finest.

2. 
   Piffin | Jan 17, 2003 10:28pm | #2

   As Boss menbtioned, the local and state real estate law will have more to say than your bank will. These laws can be so complicated that you might even need the assistance of an attorney. Any advise you get here won't be worth much locally. For instance, In our jurisdiction there are at least three different scenarios I can think of that might apply.

   It's like baseball. Each league has it's own rules and then you go from T-ball, softball, little league, college, semi-pro....see what I mean?

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   UncleDunc | Jan 17, 2003 10:48pm | #3

   If you're talking about dividing the property into two parcels that could be sold separately, then Boss and Piffin are steering you right. If you're talking about two houses on one property with one owner, it'll probably be easier than that. You may still run into regulatory hassles of one kind or another, but in most places I think it would be nothing like what you'd get if you're actually dividing the land.

4. 
   billyg83440 | Jan 17, 2003 11:13pm | #4

   Sounds like a great plan. If you're thinking about sub-dividing and you find out it's possible then do it ASAP. Zoning and sub-dividing laws can change at any time. Then if in 5 years you wish to sell the rental house you can do it. 5 years from now it may be impossible to sell that house seperately. You may even wish to pull 2 building permits and put in 2 foundations, if financially possible (not valid everywhere). In many places this would qualify as an existing structure that'd be grandfathered in with new laws.

   Of course I'd want to put the rental on as small a section of the lot as is legal myself. But, you'd be amazed how much these laws vary even crossing county lines.

   Good luck with it.

   Bill

5. 
   Danusan11 | Jan 18, 2003 04:42am | #5

   its all about zoning ie: county , township or city which ever applies.  miniumun lot size, setbacks, road frontage, water and sanitary, wetlands if applicable, square footage if applicable, when was the last split of property some townships require a certain amount of time before a another split can be applied for. its all do-able you just have to do some homework. good luck.

1. 
   Piffin | Jan 18, 2003 08:14am | #6

   Homework is why I mentioned that an experienced real estate attorney is worthwhile. For instance, some property can never be subdivided again due to covenant restrictions placed by previous owners or subdividers.

   So you've got three or maybe four detailed documents to study for homework;

   The property deed

   The Land Covenants

   The local Land use Ordinance(s) and or Zoning Regulations

   The State Real Estate Law concerning subdivisions

   What you refer to about time is, in my area, actually a way around subdivision restrictions. A sub-division here is breaking up a parcel into four or more smaller parcels. The size and shape of each is also controlled. A Minor Subdivision involves breaking it up into three or fewer subparcels and is subject to fewer restrictions such as less likely to require roads to certain standards. I can break a parcel off of mine and sell it once every five years with no subdivision approval or planning of any knid, so long as the size and shape of the lots is as required. Actually, I could accomplish the split and sale but if an odd size or shape disallowed ever caused the buyer or a future owner any legal or financial difficulties, I would be liable for damages because of having done something outside the guidelines. This is a perfect example of why a lawyer is needed. For my own protection to keep me from doing something illegal or stupid and hurting myself.

   There are also family exceptions to the subdivision rules in some places, allowing you to provide for your offspring with individual homnes, provided that you don't use the exception as a way to circumvent the rules. Suppose you have four children and give each of them a parcel without going through subdivision approval process. That's legal here. But if each of those children sold their parcel and some of the money found its way into your account, the state might have a pretty good case for circumvention of the law and you could be required to then build the roads, etc. that would have been required in a true subdivision. Liens, levies, and loans, accompanied by lingering lunches in lawyers officeswould line themselves up in your dayplanner book.

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   Danusan11 | Jan 19, 2003 05:45am | #7

   absolutely get a lawyer, before you finalize any deal, these were just some of the pitfalls I have encounter in developing land.  plus the fact you can do all your homework dot all the i's and cross the t's, and delay your project for whatever reasons, and find out the zoning and planning commision change their restrictions and ordinances.  however alot of the initial leg work can be done, without running up legal fees. 

6. 
   dford0 | Jan 19, 2003 10:55pm | #8

   Wow,  I never thought it could be that difficult.  I will definitely do my homework and legwork and get legal advise.  Thanks to everyone for the advise.

1. 
   Piffin | Jan 19, 2003 11:36pm | #9

   Now that you've been properly scared and certifiably warned stiff,

   Let me encourage you to do it. Just get the proper advice and help is all. The biggest warning would be about it being a new area where you might asasume things are same there as where you live now. Every jurisdiction is different. Real estate agent should be first contact for information and other contacts, if you find an honest one.

   You might speak with an accountant too. A deal like this can be structured to help with tax savings for many years to come - or bite you in the butt if not set up and kept going right. Before you ever start is the right time to investigate that angle.

   Good luck.

   Excellence is its own reward!