Just lined up a big job–well big for my one man band anywho–and I’m toying with the idea of subbing out the whole shebang.
It’s a complex residential addition with site access and soil issues, red-iron in some places, tall balloon framing, and lots of windows. The contract is T&M, but there most definitly is a budget, and its kinda tight given the complexity.
Two ?’s pertaining to it:
Does anyone have anything to say about my liabilities or pros/cons with not swinging the hammer?
And, what do you think of this extra language the customer is proposing for contract?
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EXTRA INFO
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DUTIES OF THE CONTRACTOR
1. All work shall be in accordance to the provisions of the plans and
specifications. All systems shall be in good working order.
2. All work shall be completed in a workman like manner, and shall
comply with all applicable national, state and local building codes and
laws.
3. All work shall be performed by licensed individuals to perform their
said work, as outlined by law.
4. Contractor shall remove all construction debris and leave the project
in a broom clean condition.
5. Upon satisfactory payment being made for any portion of the work
performed, Contractor shall furnish a full and unconditional release
from any claim or mechanics’ lien for that portion of the work for which
payment has been made.
OWNER
1. The Owner will not assume any liability or responsibility, nor have
control over or charge of construction means, methods, techniques,
sequences, procedures, or for safety precautions and programs in
connection with the project, since these are solely the Contractor’s
responsibility.
COST
1. Pre-construction estimates for construction costs and coordination
are approximately three hundred Thousands Dollars, ($300,000.00).
Thoughts?
-duke
Replies
subbing is only as good as your subs..
should one fall down on their end... you have to pick up the pieces..
unless you have a long-term relationship with your subs, you are relying on their ethics , workmanship, repsonsibility, business acumen, wether or not they really do have the licensces and insurance they claim...
working with good subs is great.. working with incompetent or unscrupulous ones is hell on earth
how are you going to select the subs.. how are you going to maintain control over them ?
If you do not sub it all out, just what portion of the show would your "one man band" do?
You are certainly going to have to sub out a substantial part of it, it would seem, and in doing so, a whole lot of your time will be spent managing subs. How effective could you be as a one-man-wearing-bags show, needing to do all that management?
Gene Davis, Davis Housewrights, Inc., Lake Placid, NY
I might as well save trimout for myself, but yes, the overall idea is I'd be a fulltime manager.
I'm not sure it makes sense to refer to the budget in a T&M deal. It can only be used against you later, as far as I'm concerned. I assume this is T&M because you're not interested in developing a fixed price budget. If you let them put the $300K number in the contract, it'll probably get turned into a 'not to exceed' deal pretty quickly. When I do T&M work I never mention a number up front.
As far as taking the job, I'd probably only do it if you have a good framing sub and a good concrete sub (if they're not the same outfit). Find the people who will get the shell up for you, or else don't attempt it.
The contract language is pretty standard, but if you're new at operating at this level, you'd be smart to find an attorney to look it over. You only highlighted a few conditions, and I'm sure there are more, like change orders, pay schedules, etc.
And as others mentioned, since you've been operating as a "one man band," selecting subs may be an issue since you may not have a history with most of them.
Another thing, and VERY important, is to contact your Liability Insurance Rep and find out what these subs will do to your premiums before you bid. You might get a real wake up call!
I can see the liability being an issue to a point, but my insurance carrier requires(as do I) licensed subs who provide me with a certificate of insurance and name me as additionally insured to work on my projects. My insurance is pegged to my billing, so it'll probably go up a little for the year. The state mins for subs almost cover the contract price, although that's not to say they'd cover me building a new house should the painters kick over a worklamp. Ideally, and how its stated in the contract I use, the homeowner can contract directly with each sub (a provision I use to help alieviate issues with liens) and I can still make my markup for babysitting. Theoretically, this makes each sub a Prime to the Homeowner.The goal of the project for me is obviously not to come away with a boatlaod of cash. I'd make more money with other work, but I think I'll be gaining some really useful knowledge and connections in the course of the project. What I need to avoid is paying too high a price for the lessons.
I see you're in Seattle....
What I was referring to about liab. ins., is that if you've been motoring along with your current carrier and using one or two or three subs but then suddenly start contracting with several, you will probably get dropped by your carrier at the end of your current premium year, have to shop a new carrier and find your premium rates have suddenly quadrupled or worse.
It's happened with regularity, at least here on the West Coast, and so I'm trying to suggest that you talk to your insurance rep and FIND OUT the insurance implications of what you're getting into so you know up front what your overhead is going to be.
Having subs provide you with a certificate of ins. and list you as an additional insured is something else entirely.
Well, at least you know how much they are willing to spend.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
And, what do you think of this extra language the customer is proposing for contract?
Why would you allow the ho to modify YOUR contract??
Item #2 is completely ambiguous. A trap waiting to shut. What nation is being referred to for starters?? And why should you build something to the standard of a state other than the one you are building in???
You need a lawyer big time real fast to smack you around a bit.
You sound too ambitious to do a job that you seem marginally qualified to do, and in your own words, not make much money at.
If you are not going to make a good nut on it, there are not a whole lot or other reasons left.
Good luck.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
from a cover your butt standpoint insurance for a general is ten times more than a sub in my area and the more you sub the less you control the more the insurance is. i would try to hire a competent crew even if you have to pay them more than they are worth its safer and generally as profitable for your. plus beware the workmans comp on a job that size.
Most of the terms are fine. They want to cover their back side. I've had much worse thrown at me.
If you sub it, just make sure you know the sub. Only bring to the table someone who is good. You don't, my bet is you will end up in a cluster !@#$ that you will regret.
If you know you can do it, and don't know who else can, charge a moderately high hourly rate and keep it in hosue with a pesimistic schedule.
Don't promise what you can not be sure of. Be the expert. They will be more likely to respect you and pay you at the end of the day.
my biggest concern is a T & M job for $300,000.
why do you want to do this T&M ?
carpenter in transition
ok, I am so frickin tired, Im not reading all the answers
so this may not be new
we contractors are in an insurance nightmare
lawyers all ove rhave attended the symposium , mold is gold
my insurance is up fro renewal, I use a lot of subs. run my employees through a temp agency, just for good bennies and tax reasons
guess what
my insurance took a big jump last month
why
no clains agianst us since Ive been in biz since the early 90's
because temps ar enot your emplyees, nor is any sub, and to the insurance companies I am a paper contractor, not really in controll fo my jobs
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
so mabe be carefull of how many subs and who is a sub
jut my nikels worth