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Started new work recently and have had to deal with the old “I’ll call you a sub so we both can save money” type of thing, but this time it’s different. The boss says he will “reward” me with any under budget jobs if I will be willing to take a loss when one goes over. The amounts would be proportionate. For instance, if I do a 10 hour job in 8, I would get half of the savings, or get paid for 9. But, if I do the 10 hr. job in 12, would only get paid for 11. Anyone have any experience with this type of thing? I realize that it’s a lot different from someone trying to get out of insurance and taxes on an employee, but is it on the level? The par that throws me is that it is different that a typical bonus type system, where excellent performance is rewarded, but under par performance is just accepted. Am I being paranoid, is this a good opportunity to capitalize on hard work?
Jon
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jon.... there is no such thing as a ""10 hour job""
who estimates the jobs?....
this is bogus and can only lead to disputes..or corner cutting...
you decide....
*The only way you are saving money by being a sub instead of an employee is if you are not paying taxes, unless he is splitting his savings from worker's comp, unemployment, etc. with you. This is about 30% over your pay; so you should be getting 15% more than a comparable employee. You are also giving up some significant insurance benefits for that 15%.The only problem with the bonus scheme is the question of who determines how long a job should take. I have never known a boss who thought that a job shouldn't take half the time that it did. And I've been a boss for many years. As long as you have a say in determining this key element (It could be used as the number in the estimate), this would be a good way to more pay and a new set of skills for you. You will learn quickly how to do an accurate labor estimate under these circumstances.
*Hi Jon, Be an employee or be a subcontractor and learn the difference! Agree and settle on pay. Don't allow yourself to "called" anything by anyone.Good luck
*We had a long discussion about this some time ago. Spend the effort to find and read it.Like they said above, find out what makes an employee and what makes a sub-contractor. Then never, never confuse the two. There are bad consequences to your long term financial health if you do. But above all else don't let this happen. You deserve to be paid for what you do. You are just going to subsidize his business.
*Fred, I would have done a search, but seeing as how my search button is gone, that's not really feasible right now. Unless your search button has been acting differently than practically everyone else's on the board, you would know that it starts at what seems like the inception of the board, which is terribly inconvenient. Besides, I've read all the threads about subs when they were current, and don't remember anyone touching on this particular circumstance. I may not have elaborated enough. I understand about subs being responsible for all their costs (extra 15.3% tax, comp, liability, etc.) but the issue comes the bonus/punish type system, as opposed to the normal bonus situation. The question I had was with the fact that if I take longer than the already agreed on job time, I will take the same loss on the hours worked over that I would take on hours saved had the job gone better than expected. As far as the IRS paper work is concerned, I am an employee. The boss has insurance and comp, so that's not the issue here. I hope this clears things up.
*You are right that does clear it up. You really aren't talking about becoming a Sub. You are talking about negotiating just how you are getting paid while an employee. When you said he was going to call you a sub that muddied the water.Can't give you much advise on which way would bring you more money. Sort of depends on you and the kind of job you are on. But, if he is the one who brought this up, as you posted, I would be really cautious. After all his primary job is to look out for his company's profits, not yours.
*What a great deal for your boss. First, he's your boss, not your customer. That makes you an employee.Second, the bonus ain't. It's sounds more like a wager (bet) than a bonus. If the job figures for 8 and you do it in 6, you should get paid for 8. If it takes 10, get paid for 8. Where is the profit, (your reward) for the risk you assume? Shady.......Fix a price and leave it. He shouldn't care if it takes you 10 hours or 100. Time and material jobs usually have a "guesstamate" with it, but the GC still pays all the hours. The deal you describe is what we refer to as "a caution" (as Fred pointed out)Luck
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Started new work recently and have had to deal with the old "I'll call you a sub so we both can save money" type of thing, but this time it's different. The boss says he will "reward" me with any under budget jobs if I will be willing to take a loss when one goes over. The amounts would be proportionate. For instance, if I do a 10 hour job in 8, I would get half of the savings, or get paid for 9. But, if I do the 10 hr. job in 12, would only get paid for 11. Anyone have any experience with this type of thing? I realize that it's a lot different from someone trying to get out of insurance and taxes on an employee, but is it on the level? The par that throws me is that it is different that a typical bonus type system, where excellent performance is rewarded, but under par performance is just accepted. Am I being paranoid, is this a good opportunity to capitalize on hard work?
Jon