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i have a 25 yr old pump, 100 feet down. I am planning a new house on this site and would like to put a new pump in. pump cost (3/4 hp, ss,) $300.
Is this a big job, approximate cost to have it done? Or can I do it myself?
i plan to build most of the house myself.
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Pump horsepower sounds right, although 1/2hp might be plenty, 3/4hp will definitely keep up with demand. I've done it several times and this would be one of last electrical jobs I'd suggest a person tackle on their own. There are pumps with integral starters and others with above-ground starters (2-wire and 3-wire pumps), some are installed with motor protectors. There will be water-proof wire splices to make. There will be 100' of pipe (PVC? steel?) full of water to raise, unthread/cut, and reconstruct for reinstallation. Hopefully there is a safety pull line. If not, it's a really bummer to drop the pump during removal. If you're going to have any extra time and energy, plumb and wire the whole house before taking on this job. A well driller has the expertise and lifting equipment to do it easily for maybe $150-250 labor if the existing electrical service can be reused.
Or keep using the existing one until there is a problem. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. -David
*When replacing the submersible pump, 100 ft. down, is it necessary to pull the casing? My impression, never having done this, was that it was just a matter of hauling up the old and dropping down (not literally)the new. Where am I so wrong, assuming no complications with the removal?
*Having "ridden along" with a pump man, and enjoyed watching him work, the casing wasn't pulled in just replacing the pump. But I wouldn't want to do that without a pump truck. If you do get a new pump, buy any additional warrenties you can, even with quality pumps, this insurance is well worth it.
*Don,That pump and line full of water is heavier than hell...You are not going to take off the well cover and heave ho.You're near the dream stream,aj
*I am in the process of replacing my 3/4 hp jet pump with a submersible pump. The jet pump isn't working, so figured I would get the added efficiency of the submersible. My well is 100 ft deep with a 6" casing and with a static water level of about 32'. From the information I could gather, it looks like my 3/4hp jet pump would max out at about 6 gpm where as the 1/2hp jet pump would be about 11gpm. The depth/gpm curves also indicate that at 30', the 3/4hp submersible would only gain me about 2 additional gpm over the 1/2hp submersible. (Some other pump curves gave slightly different capacities, but the difference between the 1/2 and 3/4 were still about 2 or 3gpm at that depth - the difference was more pronounced at deeper depths, however.)I don't understand where the casing issue came from. The primary function of the casing is to keep the well bore from collapsing and also to seal out surface contaminated water. I have only heard about pulling a casing when a well is abandoned, otherwise I think even a deteriorated casing is usually relined rather than actually being replaced. Pulling even a 100' casing would take a bit of doing as most areas require the casing to be grouted in place to seal the well from surface water penetrating around the casing. A submersible pump usually has a safety cable or rope, the water discharge pipe, and the 2 or 3 wire electrical supply cable. The electrical supply cable with the unit I purchased came with heat shrink tubing to cover the splice near the pump in the electrical cable. I chose to get 1/8" stainless steel cable for the safety line, although I understand most use nylon or polypropolene rope. Some people don't bother with the safety line, but I would prefer not having to fish the pump out of the bottom of a 100+ ft well if the plastic pipe gives out. A device that some recommend is a torque arrester which absorbs the start up torque of the motor. Repeated starts could unscrew pipe couplings (if used) or fatigue PVC pipe. The torque arrester also centers the pump so that it doesn't bang against the casing and insures water flow completely around the pump for cooling (although I don't know if that really is a potential problem). Some recommend that a well be purged with chlorine bleach or hydrogen peroxide periodically. It may be a good idea to think about doing this after you open up the sanitary seal and lower a bunch of foreign materials into it.Going from a two pipe jet pump to a single pipe submersible required me to get a new sanitary seal which ran about $27, although I have seen them for less. (My casing is actually 6 3/8 ID, while most well seals are for 6" ID casings.) If your old pump uses PVC, I understand that you can get a couple of buddies and just manually haul it out. I was even told that even with steel pipe, several (strong) guys using pipe wrenches as handles could lift out a submersible that was not too deep. While I have collected the equipment, I have not yet started hauling out the old jet pump with its two steel pipes of 1.25 and 1.5 inches. I figure that the total weight is probably around 600 lbs, so my present plan is to use the 3pt lift of my tractor to pull it up a few feet at a time, although I have a 10' high a-frame and hand winch that I may roll into place if that goes too slowly. My main concern is securing the pipe while I take off the top sections so that the sections still in the well do not end up at the bottom...For the slighly paranoid - until about 1994, submersible well pumps were commonly made with brass impellers and housings. The EPA found that many of these these units were leaching excessive amounts of lead into well water and soon thereafter the major pump makers switched to either stainless steel or plastic parts. Some pumps made prior to the late 1970s used PCBs in the capacitors that start the motors, but I don't know if any were used in submersible pumps.
*They also used a newer brass alloy called uninhibitted naval brass (which is called lead-free, but still has roughly 8/10% Pb). Older naval brass or achitectural bronze was up there in the 3 to 4 % Pb bracket. Tin (Sn) is used as a substitute for the lead in the lead-free castings. So don't just throw away a brass pump without comfirming what alloy was used.
*Don,I installed a pump last December 165' down. It was the nastiest job I ever tackled. Everything else in my home building project is easy compared to that. I started at 2pm and finished at 1am. It started to rain; each 10' section got heavier and heavier; the clay sealer got on my hands and made everything slippery. Go for it! You'll grow hair.DarrellPS: DO put in torque arresters every 20 or 25'. Lower the pump with a BIG poly rope or ss cable. (Buy a little wire crimper at a boat store, you'll use it for many other things.)
*Rereading my post I realiazed it wasn't written well. I ment to say I wouldn't want to pull the plastic pipe out without a pump truck, not the casing. Unless you have a real problem with the budget, I would have a professional pump man do it. I've watched one man, properly equiped, pull and replace a pump on plastic pipe in less than an hour. As someoneelse said, that's a lot of wieght. Water wieghs about 8.5lbs/gal, there are 7.5 gal/cuft, if my math is right a 2in id pipe 100 ft long, has about 1600 lbs of water in it. If something breaks and falls into the well, you may have more trouble than you want. At least get a price from a pro so you can decide whether it's worth it.
*You have some HEAVY water. 1 pound H2O = 27.7 cubic inches. Cylinder volume = (Pi) x radius² x length. For 2" pipe, radius is 1". For 100 feet, length is 1200 inches. This equals (Pi) x 1 x 1200. Or, about 3770. 3770 / 27.7 = 136 pounds (roughly).An easier formula:Weight of water (pounds) = Pipe length feet x (Pipe diameter inches)² x 0.34136 = 100 x 4 x 0.34
*Mr. Pita My math went along the lines3.14 x 1 = 3.143.14 / 12 = .261666....261666... x 100 = 26.1666... cu ft26.166.. cu ft x 7.48 = 195.726.. gal195.726.. x 8.5 lbs/gal = 1663.676.... lbsthe 7.48 I took from a conversion chat, the 8.5 from memoryEven without the water weight, I still think pulling a 25 yr old pump out is best left to a pump man. If anything falls into the well, can it be retrieved, and by who, if it can't be retrieved, dig a new well maybe? The new well may be shallower or deeper. Finding water is tricky. All the risks and costs and the budget need to be looked at to decide.
*Oh, I agree about the pump man. Call someone else.But your math is off. 3.14 x 1 = 3.14 --area of the pipe (square inches)3.14 / 12 = .261666... -- umm, divide by 144 to get square feet.261666... x 100 = 26.1666... cu ft -- should be 2.18 cu ft.26.166.. cu ft x 7.48 = 195.726.. gal -- 16.31 gal195.726.. x 8.5 lbs/gal = 1663.676.... lbs -- 135.9 poundsAnother way to look at it - one foot of your two inch pipe would have to hold almost two gallons. Since a gallon milk bottle is almost a foot tall, and way bigger (wider) than 2" pipe, it stands to reason that a 2" pipe is nowhere near a gallon. (It's actually like .163 gallons)
*But 144 is such a gross number. (I winced at that myself) Put mind in gear before using keyboard. Put mind in gear before using keyboard. Put mind in gear before using keyboard. Think I got it. There are 12 items in a dozen, unless it is a bakers dozen, then there are 13. So if you ask a baker for gross of rolls how many do you get?
*I don't know but I think they're the ones he/she made after picking their nose.One of the best lessons I learned in college - make sure your answer makes sense, in the order of things (tens vs. thousands vs. billions), even if the exact answer isn't correct - sometimes close enough is close enough. One of my engineering professors told me the story from when he was teaching at the Naval Academy, of one particular student. Doing a certain calculation for how much added thickness a certain amount of paint on a pipe would create, a student figured out the answer. He wrote it down and moved on to the rest of the test. The question was marked wrong. He knew he used the right formulas, so he asked for partial credit, since he answered the question but made a 'simple' mistake. The prof refused, asking him to read his answer and say in plain english what it was. The student looked and said "you'd wind up with 24 inches of paint." The prof looked at him and asked, "Have you ever seen a pipe with 2 feet of paint? The answer is .024 inches." (Numbers fudged, but you get the idea.)So, my professor would always ask, is your answer in the ballpark, or are you putting on two feet of paint?
*But also since the pump is below the 32 foot of water the specific gravity would come into affect with the weight pulled. once the pump is above the 32 foot elevation you do not have the 100 foot of water but 68 foot of water. in other words use an A-Frame and pulley system.
*In blissful ignorance, I have pulled two pumps. Neither pump was installed with torque arrestors or safety lines (in blissful ignorance?). Once I determined the method used to "lock" or "seal" the top of the pipe to the outlet and how to loosen or undo it, the pump pulled up easily (about 90 feet deep). Of course, there was no check valve just above the pumps, so the water drained out. It is useful to have a second person to "walk away" the end of the pipe while you pull it up, but I did the second one by myself. Actually installing a new pump was fairly straight forward if you're at all comfortable with plumbing and electrical connections.No longer blissfully ignorant, I am not sure I would try this again. I think I was lucky.When I did this, all I asked recommended a Red Jacket brand pump.It would be interesting to hear what the exact consequences are of the pump being dropped. If it's just the pump falling off the pipe, is it really retrievable? How?Rich Beckman
*Rich: As an environmental engineer, I've been in charge of monitoring thousands of groundwater wells, more than a hundred with pumps in them. Techs dropped many things down them; pumps, bailers, and instruments. I've dropped a few things. My current procedures: Don't take anything smaller than the well ID near it without tying it to something like the truck. If you know what got dropped, you can sometimes design/machine a retrieval device. We all carry heavy fishing lures with treble hooks, but that only gets the small stuff back out. For a pump down the hole, I might try a LARGE screw extractor, threaded into the remaining pipe, if metal. If plastic, I've ocassionally had luck with a wooden dowel, centered in the casing, with backwards facing barbs inserted in it (sharpened spring steel, wedged into the wood). But just as often, your retrieval tool gets irretrievable installed in the well. With a tall water column like this case, I'd just install the next pump on top of the old one.George: It ain't 100-32=68 feet of water. Either there is a check valve/foot valve (often integral with the pump) and then it is 100 feet of water. Or there isn't a check valve and then the pipe will drain as it is pulled. The check valve is so the pump doesn't have to pump that water 2 or 3 times. I've drilled a hole through some check valves of intermittently operated pumps so the lines could drain back for freezing protection. Makes them easier to pull, but I wouldn't do that for a normal home installation.
*David,Thanks. Installing on top is what I always kinda figured.Rich Beckman
*Check with your local rental or hardware stores. Mine rented me a wheel mounted on a frame to run the tubing (1" heavy duty polyethylene), wires and pull rope over. I pulled with a compact tractor, 320'. You should have no problem pulling up 100' by hand, but its always nice to have another person helping out.Along with the wheel/frame, I also rented a clamp that gripped the pipe as it tried to drop into the well, but released when pulled up, especially helpful when working alone.When you install the new pump, cork the top end of the tubing before setting the pump in the well. The buoyancy will relieve some weight as it goes down. Also, use a torque arrestor, centering discs, and lots of 20 mil. well tape to hold the wires close to the pipe.good luck,Dave
*I am a member of a small hunting club near Monticello, Georgia. Over the years we have built some permanent and semipermanent little buildings on the leased land like an individual hunter might build on leased land. We have power and we had an arrangement with a nearby land owner to get water from his well. Thats all over now since the well guy said we were causing him problems he didn't need.Bottom line is we need a well. I need some input on wells such as, what kind is best for our circumstance, How much should it cost?, Is this something we could do ourselves? etc. We really need to find a well digger who could use a lifetime membership in exchange for drilling the well. Any thoughts would be appreciated
*The costs involved in drilling a well can be, as they say, highly variable. Depends upon the bore size and the depth needed to hit the water stratum, the type of soil and rock, the accessibility of the location, etc. There are actually several ways to create a well: percussion or rotary drilling, driven points, hand dug, and bored (using something like an augur). If you have a shallow water table, you might be able to get by with a bored or driven well or even a hand dug one.Our county has a "water master" who oversees wells and looks out for water rights (which you may need to check if your club is going to irrigate or draw much water). Our Water Master has been quite helpful in answering a number of questions regarding my well. You probably should check with your county officials to see if someone fulfills this function in the area where you club is located. Many (most?) jurisdictions require a licensed well driller to drill a well. I would guess that in some places there may be provisions for homeowners doing shallow wells, but I don't know about a club.A year or so ago I did quite a bit a looking around on the Internet on this topic and found some informative sites but no sample prices. A quick search just now only turned up a couple that provide information on doing your own. The first site shows a rig that bores a small well using 1" pipe and a post hole digger motor. There is at least one outfit that makes a similar rig, but in my breif search I couldn't find their web site (I did find it previously). Some creative use of search terms on a search engine may find you much more of interst than these: http://www.artrans.com/rmsg/water/drillwell.htmhttp://www.lifewater.ca/Our county has a "Water Master" who oversees wells and water rights in the county (which you may need to check if your club plans to irrigate or otherwise use significant amounts of water). He has been quite helpful in answering questions regarding wells and water rights in our area. You might want to check with the county officials in the area of your club to see if someone fulfills this same function there.
*anybody know how to install a pump in a two inch well, 85 foot well
*If it is a typical 4" submersible pump, you have to push real hard...What type of pump are you trying to put down this well. A few other details might also help. The only pumps that I know that can fit down this small a pipe are the air rise pumps and hand or mechanised positive displacement lift pumps (don't recall the correct name of either of these - too late and too punchy...)If you are looking for information on a pump that will fit down the bore, rather than information on how to install a pump that you already have, let me know and I will try and dredge some links for you to look at out of my bookmarks file.
*What we did was, I took the drill rig home, boss told me to get some pipe from the warehouse, so I installed an 85 foot well so I could water the garden and wash the car,Etc. The house is on city water. So I just grab a bunch of two inch pipe. Now I cannot find a pump that will fit a two inch pipe. i was hoping somebody knew of a submerable 2 inch pump. I might need to go the jet pump route. water flow is not really the issue. i got 45 foot of water in the well. I just need it for the yard, and to keep dragging hose all the way from the house.
*Don, you shouldn't have a problem pulling out your pump from 100' if you can get two other people. My wife, son and I pulled ours out from 185'.We used black poly pipe, much more flexible than pvc,and, available in 250' lengths, so it's an unbroken run. You may want to run the pump wire (the 3 wire pump lasts longer, I'm told) in a separate 3/4" poly pipe to protect it from abrasion. Use a wire snake, cut the pipe in snakeable sections , pull the wire through each section, then tape the sections back together with plenty of plastic electrical tape. Tape the 3/4" pipe to the 1" water line every 4' or so, and lower away. You probably don't need a safety rope (I didn't use one). Good luck20gpm, BB
*Johnnie -With a casing diameter of 2", the options for pumping a decent volume of water appear to be fairly limited. The smallest submersible pump that I located was 3" and the web site that listed it has vanished. Typical submersible pumps are 4" diameter or greater. A jet pump has the pump outside the well casing with a supply pipe and a return pipe inserted in the well casing, the only ones I am familiar with have each of the two pipes of 1" or over with the submerged jet that forces the water upward attached at the end of the pipes. I have an air driven pump, which with minor alterations should be able to fit down a 2" pipe. Mine will be run from a windmill, but an electric driven small air compressor will work. It is a fairly simple affair with a 1/2" pipe inside of a jacket made from 1" pipe. The air is supplied through the outer jacket and then passes through a series of small holes in the inner pipe to supply the lift for the water. The current air fittings on the jacket on mine make the unit too large to fit down a 2" casing and it these fittings that would have to modified to make it fit. Mine is from Bowjon - http://www.bowjon.net/ . It works on the principle of the airstone in a fish tank - the rising bubbles of air lift the water. Another company that makes a similar unit is Airlift Technologies: http://www.airliftech.com/Since there is a lot of air coming up with the water, I intend to run my outflow into a tank with an airvent with the overflow going to my garden. I have about 30' of head to my house from the tank but I could also put a small electric (possibly solar driven) pressure pump to pump water into a pressure tank that I have. There are several high efficiency hand powered lift pumps available on the Internet that would fit down a 2" casing. Unfortunately, they are rather pricey and much more so when the handle is replaced with a small motor. As a sample the standard hand pump is over $500 and another $500 for the 12v electric motor at the sites that I remember - http://poweriseverything.com/product/simple_water_pump.htmlhttp://www.bisonprod.com/price.htmthere are some other similar units available through various solar power/alternative energy supply outlets, but I don't recall any of them being much less expensive. You might search through some of the links at Home Power: http://www.homepower.com/links.htmto see if you can find a small pump that would be better suited for what you need. Sorry, I thought I could be of more help. You might want to check with a company that supplies pumps for agricultural users in your area.
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i have a 25 yr old pump, 100 feet down. I am planning a new house on this site and would like to put a new pump in. pump cost (3/4 hp, ss,) $300.
Is this a big job, approximate cost to have it done? Or can I do it myself?
i plan to build most of the house myself.