Exciting topic, eh????
my apologies for the dumbest question of the day–
however
installing a sump pit and pump in my basement
crock goes into a hole approx. 32″ deep
crock gets surrounded by gravel
holes are to be drilled into crock to allow water to seep into crock and then be pumped out———-
where and how many holes do I drill?????
thinking say a dozen or so around the circumference say 8 ” from the bottom and another course say 20″ from the bottom????
or do I swiss cheese the whole thing????
Thanks
stephen
Replies
Depends how much water.
What you're thinking sounds like a good start.
I'd put a couple in the bottom for good measure too.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
You can get a plastic crock that's already perfed. But if this is a new installation (no slab poured yet) you should at the very least install some laterals under the floor, even if you don't dig down deep enough to install footer drains.
I bought one from a company called Basement Systems which had the holes predrilled. No holes on the bottom, just on the sides. The holes start at the very bottom of the side, spaced about 3" apart all the way around the circumferance of the "bucket". This pattern is repeated up the side of the "bucket" about every 3" up, and stops at about 6" from the top. Holes are 3/8" diameter. Basically a grid of 3/8" holes covering the side walls of the bucket. It also has knockouts for pipes from the foundation perimeter drains, if present. Not sure why no holes in the bottom...maybe to prevent the pump from sucking up sediment
Edited 1/8/2009 1:42 pm ET by TommH
Edited 1/8/2009 1:44 pm ET by TommH
i like the series say 8" up from the bottom.....
or maybe 12 " up from the bottom
but NONE in the bottom
what you are trying to do is lower the water table below your slab bottom
so your reference is really 'SO MANY INCHES BELOW THE BOTTOM OF THE SLAB "
you don't want to dewater the neighborhood.... you just want to get your slab out of the water
so.... depending on your soil conditions and water problem
my holes would start at the bottom of the slab ... and maybe anothr series say 4" below the botoom of the slab
you have to make sure you won't float the sumpcrock out of the hole and you want a reservoir so the sump will have a good volume of water to work with
but... no holes in the bottom of the sump crock
mike,
slab is roughly 3" thick--with about 5" of sandy fill under thatso-about 8"to 10" down from the top of the slab there is a wet layerand then the next 24" is pretty much pure clay------looks like my son could fire pots out of it---then about 30"-32" down---another wet layersoooooooo????-------swiss cheese it starting10" from the top of the slab to about 4" from the bottom????
stephen.
BTW---- i think last time i posted a question on this forum I was thouroughly--and probably deservedly--chastised for not being prompt enough with my thank you soooo- lest I offend any super sensitive sump experts----- thanks one and all this is outside my area of experience-- I typically work about 32 feet higher on the house---and it seems like it would be pretty easy for me to do a simple thing here-wrong.
thanks again
Stephen
"
mike,slab is roughly 3" thick--with about 5" of sandy fill under that
so-about 8"to 10" down from the top of the slab there is a wet layer
and then the next 24" is pretty much pure clay------looks like my son could fire pots out of it---then about 30"-32" down---another wet layer"
Apparently there are several ways of doing this .
We trench the out side footing to the top of it all around the perimeter .We lay a sock drain pipe thats got holes in it to catch waterand move it to a main area where the sump is found. So we end up with two drains comming into the sump tank. There needs to be a enough holding area for the pump to catch up. 50 gallons seems to work fine . We replace dirt with cut gravel to ground grade and cover . Our pumps are 10 gallons per minute I believe . Thats a 2 inch pipe flowing water. Plenty enough time for shut off.
Im running one right now . The water is comming from the perimeter so we catch it there . If the pipe is laying on top of the footing then theres plenty of room to get under the floor grade . The pipe can hold some holding water if you plan it with the discharge of the pipes into the sump tank. I like to plan the running of the pump to have water in the pipes so the pump comes on less and pumps longer.
Tim
stephen
<<<<slab is roughly 3" thick--with about 5" of sandy fill under that
so-about 8"to 10" down from the top of the slab there is a wet layer
and then the next 24" is pretty much pure clay------looks like my son could fire pots out of it---then about 30"-32" down---another wet layer>>>
no.... based on that..... cut the slab, excavate large enough for your crock
you want water to go into your sump, not dirt or fines
i'd make holes from about 8" to 12"...no holes below that and i'd wrap some filter fabric around it to keep the fines out
all you want to do is keep the water away from the slab.... so 12" down should be more than enough... you don't really care what's happening 30" down
put a check valve on the discharge.... this increases the back pressure, so the pump might think it's pumping say, a 15' head instead of a 10' head, but the check valve will make the system work better
also , Grainger sells a "clunkless check-valve", so you don't hear that annoying "thump" every time the pump shuts offMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
mike----
I follow you now.
i already have the valve hole is dug- I will install the crock today--and probably get the pump operational tommorrow.
thanks
stephen
just signed a change order to install a sump , crock, "clunkless" valve , Little Giant 1/3 pump, drill thru foundation, and trench the discharge to daylightso you and i designed this in tandem.... what a team !Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
shhhhhh don't tell anyone--- but I think I am going to( probably highly illegally) temporarily discharge mine into a floor drain untill june or so when I will do the outside hook-up work.( after all-it's cold outside right now and I don't wanna go out there!) you and I briefly discussed this little bootleg project of mine LAST winter--- but I didn't get around to it untill this winter. I am actually supposed to be building storm windows right now---but the old ones are in place and I won't really need the new ones untill NEXT winter------but meanwhile I need the pump operating THIS spring---so priorities change.Off to buy some gravel
stephen
one of my tennants at the office is a landscaper... so a couple buckets of crushed stone is no longer a big deal for meMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Heck, the basement isn't leaking NOW. Why fix the roof when it's not raining??
God is REAL, unless explicitly declared INTEGER
What about battery backup? Working for a client now, (finishing her basement). Electrician told me that her existing pumps CANNOT be retrofitted for the battery backup. Expensive change for her......
Battery backup is almost always done with a piggyback pump. The only reason you couldn't do it would if there wasn't enough room in the sump.
God is REAL, unless explicitly declared INTEGER
don't know about conventional stuff
but one of my customers was an engineer for exide batterieshe had some kind of underground stream running under his basement slabhe had three sump systems all with car battery in series backupsthe poor souls downhill from him caught hell all springMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
>>you don't want to dewater the neighborhood.... you just want to get your slab out of the waterAre you sure? I'm thinking saturated soil under the footer/slap isn't a good idea.Fairly high water tables in some parts of my area - sumps will run almost continuously for a year or two in some new developments until the area "dries" out.
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
I agree, more or less. You can picture the water table as a sort of sand pile where you're removing (dry) sand from one spot. As you do additional sand will slide down into the removal area, creating an inverted cone of sand-free space. You need to remove enough "sand" to get the level of the "sand" below the level of the floor for the entire area of the floor, which means it needs to be significantly lower near the pit (which is typically in one corner).
God is REAL, unless explicitly declared INTEGER
and ..... ?i told stephen to think in the range of 12" below top of slab... were do you want to go ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The depth you need at the sump depends on the "angle of repose" that the water cone will settle to, which in turn depends on both the soil and the rate at which water is added from the outside. I would not generally assume that 12" is deep enough, except in fairly sandy soil, or if a lot of sand/gravel was added under the slab.
God is REAL, unless explicitly declared INTEGER
mike,
my neighbor and good friend is a landscape contractor--- both my sons work for him in the summer( in fact youngest son is theoretically working for him essentially year 'round untill next sept.) i didn't want to bother him for something like this---and a trash can full of gravel cost me $7--so it wasn't a big dealanyhow-- I have the crock all installed---drilled the holes like you said------- I have zero experience with this--- none of the houses I have owned or lived in had sump pits---- BUT--- I was thinking about the depth of the holes similar to what some of the other folks here have saidhowever-since it is my house-- I can observe-- and if it doesn't work as intended-- I figure I can add lower holes later pretty easy MUCH tougher to seal off unwanted holes later------ Stephen
that's my thinking about crocks and holes too... i can add deeper ones later
and.... if it don't work.... you can always have a toy boat regattaMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
well mike-- here is an update put in-what I beleve is a .3 horspower pump(zoeller?)put in the pump recommended by the supplier--- hope it's a good one-it was one of the more expensive ones they carried as standardpump is VERY quiet--- unbelievably quiet in my opinion--- I base that on my experience 25-30 years ago-- I worked in a chrome plating shop---we used to pump chromic acid and muriatic acid from one tank to another with a non-submersible sump pump--thousands of gallons of acid at a time---man that thing was loud this thing is soooo quiet---when I pour water into the ump to test it---I can't hear the pump over the sound of the water I am pouring in-----in reality-it also pumps the water OUT faster than I can pour it in using some care so--with the lid on and the door shut-- i doubt I will ever hear the thing run.
stephen
grainger's delivered our sump equip. yesterday..... maybe tomorrow or thursday we'll start drilling the slabMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
theoretically... the watertable is infinite... how deep do you want to go?
if you can dewater so the bottom of the slab is out of the WATER.... why go deeper ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore