Ok, when it comes to this particular issue I must be an idiot.
I have a flowmaster or is that fuildmaster fill device in my toilet. I replace teh old valve with this new unit several years ago in a bathroom which almost never gets used. So I amnot sure whether the unit ever worked right or just started having trouble several years ago and I just lived with it. Just don’t recall.
ANyway …. When someone flushes the toilet, the water drains but no water comes in to replenish the tank. If I “flush” it again naturally the toilet will not flush because teh tank did not refill; however, NOW the tank refills. Or if when you flush the toilet you hold the flush lever down for just an exact second or so, it flushes and refills.
Therefore, it appears that if you just flush it quickly ie normally, the flapper comes up to drain the tank, but the float does not have time to drop so as to allow the trip lever on the float to fully trip and start the water flowing. I have tried to shorten the fill device “tower” thinking that I could lift teh float higher in order to trip both the flapper andthe fill lever, NO GOOD.
For teh love of Pete this is atoilet!! What the heck am I doing wrong.
I am pretty sure the unit is not all limed up and is not that old. Is th eFuildmaster a piece of crap? I am I jsut really out inthe toolies on this one? ???????????????????????????????
Replies
sounds like a problem with the float and not the flapper. the float is what actuates the water refilling. do you have your water level set to low?
test
No. The flapper works fine. I have watched it dozens of times. The problem is that if you flush normally it appears or I think the float does not fall quick enough to fully trigger the trigger so as to start teh water flowing. If you hold the flush level for a second teh water level is apllowed to drop as teh toilet flushes this allows teh float to fall (not boeyed up by the water) whihc FULLY triggers teh trigger and the water starts, How can I adjust things so that you do not have to hold the flush handle and that the flpper and trigger (start water) occur at the exact same time??
I am pretty mechanical, but this toilet is besting me ..
from your description there is something that is hanging up on the floater. replace the floater and valve if you cant seem to see a reason for it not dropping the way it should.
those fluid masters have a screw like adjustment to them, if something is slightly bent or out of line it would cause a dealy in the floater to drop.
When you flush a standard-design toilet, the flapper valve should go up and stay open until the tank it largely drained. This is accomplished either by making the flapper "toggle over" to where it stands upright, more or less floating, or (less common) by having it shaped such that the rush of water through the valve holds it open.
So once the flush lever is FULLY pressed (some designs have a partial press "pee only" mode) the full cycle should be assured.
Sometimes the chain is too tight, keeping the flapper from going "over the top" to its "stable/open" position, and it closes as soon as the lever is released. Having the chain too loose can cause the same problem, though. Or the flapper can simply be worn out or damaged.
Once the tank has mostly drained (if not sooner) the fill valve should begin to fill the tank again. Some are designed such that they do not come "on" until the water level has dropped significantly, others come "on" right away. Makes no difference so long as they do come on, and go off when they should. The key is to get the flapper to work right.
ok
The FLAPPER IS FINE. You flush, that flapper is lifted, it floats in a vertical position until all teh water is drained. The float is fine.
Dan, the Fluid master does not wait until all the water is drained. In fact if teh float were to drop properly the water would start entering the tank almost immediately before a inch of water has drained. JFYI.
Thanks to all.
It is as if you have to flush to lift teh flapper and then need to flush again to relaease the float so as to start teh water.
ok
The FLAPPER IS FINE. You flush, that flapper is lifted, it floats in a vertical position until all teh water is drained. The float is fine.
Dan, the Fluid master does not wait until all the water is drained. In fact if teh float were to drop properly the water would start entering the tank almost immediately before a inch of water has drained. JFYI.
Thanks to all.
It is as if you have to flush to lift teh flapper and then need to flush again to relaease the float so as to start teh water.
I concur there is a problem with the flapper. When he just hits the lever quick it opens and closes right away not allowing the water to drain as it should which is why the float doesn't come on. When he holds it down, the bowl does empty thus allowing the float to drop and fill the tank. The flapper should float when it is flushed. there should be a bubble of air trapped in the flapper. If there isn't the suction of the flush will draw it closed too soon. Your chain also needs to be short enough to pull the flapper up to the point it will float without being overcome by the suction.
My guess would be the chain isn't short enough to raise the flapper enough to get to the float point. Second guess is the flapper has gone bad and lost its air bubble but that would likely be noticed as a constant trickle and the toilet would be filling randomly on its own.
Do your short flush and see if the flapper floats in the open position until the tank drains down to just above the top of the drain port the flapper seals against. Next instead of using your flush handle, reach in the tank and pull the chain up by hand and see if the flapper floats until the tank drains. If the flapper will float the second time but not the first, then you should shorten the chain until you can get a full tank drain. If it won't float either time, then get a new flapper. Bottom line the flapper nneds to come open and stay open until the tank drains. (note, the suction of the water and the pressure of the water weight will always close the flapper before the water level drops completely to the level of the drain port but it won't be much above that level when it does.
I would also take an old tooth brush and scrub all the float parts that contact each other. I am picturing that you have one the rides up and down on a rail not one with a bulb on an arm like mine. The ones on the rail do get hung up and in order to really make sure it rides freely you almost have to take it out of the toilet and turn it upside down to make sure there isn't scale buildup on the bottom of the float. You can also pick away at it with a dental pick ( you can get a set at most hardware stores but any pointy reasonably hard obect can be used. but if you go to the trouble of taking it out to clean it you might as well replace and put the old one on the shelf as an emergency backup. Remember too that you can't see inside that barrel float so it could have crud inside where you can't see it or clean it. I gave up on that style because they always got hung up on me and prefer the old style arms but I know a lot of people use the barrel on the rail and it works fine for them
I have found the Fluidmaster fill valves to be remarkably reliable and durable, outlasting conventional ball-float valves by a factor of 4 at least (and at $9.95 a throw, a real bargain). However, we use softened water in our toilets, so I don't know if the units tend to crud up with hard water.
Not crudded up
No it is not crudded up, but that is always a good guess. Like I said, I think this thing ahs not worked right from day one. It is in a bathroom which we don' t use much except a Christmas with guests. Hmm, woner why I would like to fix this thinkg now in December? Hmm?
I think it must be deffective or operator error.
THE GD FLAPPER IS FINE
THE FLAPPER IS FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You flush the toilet as quick as you like. Did I say you can flush the toilet as quickly as you like and the tank DRAINS COMPLETELY!!!! DId I say flush quickly and it drains COMPLETELY. YES, that is exactly what I said.
Should I repeat that again?
Just look at the flush lever and the flapper is fine and drains com[pletely. It think if I don't even touch teh bloody thing and just imgaine that the tank drains it will drain completely!!!!!!!
Ok, I think that has been establsihed.
That is right, the float floats up and down on a "tower". Yes, I wish I had one of teh FOOL PROOF ball on an arm type. They are bullet proof.
Anyway, IT FLUSHES FINE, THE FLAPPER IS FINE, if I failed to mention that. It just does ot trigger the water to start flowing back in.
Darneest thing.
Figured it out
its the flapper...
Figured it out
its the flapper...
Fine or Fing Fine, which ever you prefer. Thanks for asking.
Now the Trigger ....
Fine or Fing Fine, which ever you prefer. Thanks for asking.
Now the Trigger ....
Not sure if this response was a round-about-response to me
You say " ... A lot of people don't understand that there is no connection between the flush lever/flapper and the fill mechanism". Well "a lot of people would not be me" . Although, perhaps a lot of people, including yourself, don't know that with teh Fuildmaster, the flush lever has TWO CHAINS, one connected to teh flapper and a second to the TRIGGER attached to teh float (which supposedly allow the float to drop and trigger the fill operation ALTHOUGH THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN, unless you hold the handle for an extra second or so).
A side fron your post demonstrating that your grasp of the obviouse is outstanding, there is not much less to say or use for it.
Duh the float has to drop enough to TRIGGER the fill valve. The situation is that, that is not happening, and no one with a outstanding grasp of the obvious is able to explain why, and many seem fixated on the flapper, which did I say once before is F'ing Fine? LOL.. Did I also say, at least once, that ONCE FLUSHED FLOATS UP PROPERLY UNTIL ALL THE WATER IS DRAINED FROM THE TANK? Pretty sure I have said that. LOL.
I suppose we should more on to building rocket ships now, or perhaps see if we can impress everyone with receipes of ice cubes. Not sure which way to go from here.
Two Chains?
Most Fluidmaster fill valves do not have a chain. Only the LeakSentry versions do.
Most likely the chain to the float release is not adjusted properly. Get the installation instructions and adjust the chains. If that doesn't work, remove the LeakSentry catch on the bottom of the float and the second chain, Discard these.
http://www.fluidmaster.com/downloadable/download/sample/sample_id/379/
agree with Mark
sounds like a problem with the float and not the flapper. Those things can be so tricky sometimes.
agree with Mark
sounds like a problem with the float and not the flapper. Those things can be so tricky sometimes.
To all those ..
offering advice about a device which they know nothing about, for an education it took braking the trigger/release off of teh bloody float to make it work. Without the trigger/lock the float now drops when flushed and rises with teh water to turn the water off.
Ok, you need to break the Fluidmaster in order to make it work FLAWLESSLY. Maybe you don't ahve to, but it sure seems as ifyou do.
That's interesting.
I'm sure glad I didn't offer any advice and offend you. It must be very time consuming to read all those thousands of replies. I'll be sure not to offer any advice in the future to you.
It seems odd though that something with such a big name doesn't work right. I saw a couple of people did offer you their opinion on that problem who were right about the problem. Maybe they helped, but I guess you figgured it out yourself.
Sure, advice.
Sure advice. "IT IS THE FLAPPER" Got it.
Thereis no problem with wrong advice. Thanks to all who tried. But it appears many people don't read, perhaps they can not, Public schools being what they are are.
Thanks to all who were able to read teh part about the FLAPPER BEING F'ing Fine (LOL) anbd overing ideas! IT appears that no one could figure this problem out since I think my particualr unit is either rare or no one uses it. The trigger on hte unit (which probably no one could figure out , since no one had ever seen on including myself) is just plain stupid. I thnk it is design so that if the toile leaks by the flapper the water will not keep filling the tank. Probably a go idea to burden a renter who could careless about your water bill, but not a good idea for most people.
Mark, you can't seem to take a joke, how very sad for you. Relax and have a Merry Christmas, of will ghosts be visiting you that night?
Ghosts visit me every night, oh well, maybe the Christmas ghosts will have some interesting stories for me.
It's curious how someone might be offended because they presented a question as if they had a standard setup, then it turns out they have a weird non-standard setup. I guess some people feel we should be able to read minds.
Or maybe
Or some people are to stupid to realize after twenty or so references to a TRIGGER that it is something other than standard. Hmm? Sound familar?
Or maybe
Or some people are to stupid to realize after twenty or so references to a TRIGGER that it is something other than standard. Hmm? Sound familar?
Curiouser still ..
Is that the only person offende here with an incredibly think skin is you. Really odd.
told you it was the flapper.