Awright…I promised to show some table framing pics and here they are.
The house that we’re doing is a ranch…I think about 1550 sf. Frank and I are going to work the tables, while Ben and Steve are working the deck.
The basic plan is that we’ll do all the outside walls, while they do the deck and interior partitions.
I was going to post the pics the other day, when we started (the day after the beam setting quiz), but my internet connection fizzled. I think my wireless router went south…but I just plugged my modem cable in direct and viola…I’m back!
You want pictures…here’s some pictures….
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information…don’t listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Replies
Do we get any milkbones if we figure out
were the pictures went to
Yes Butch...milkbones if you can solve the mystery!
blue
ps knucklehead!Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
While Frank was staging the materials, I built the table out in the street. Here's my table and were ready to go.
If those horses look extra strong, it's because Frank built them and he was probably thinking it would be a good idea to use 1x6 instead of 1x4.
He's probably right...but us old guys are too stubborn to change...besides...I like to test fate!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Looks like you could use some winding sticks on that table. Does the fact the table is not a flat plane screw up your work?
Dave, what are winding sticks?
We set the plane up fairly well the first day, but I noticed it was settling. It really isn't a factor, but on the one long wall, it did force me to stop and get the top plate planed out better. If I hadn't done that, I would have created a situation where the fascia wasn't parallel with the top plates.
That particular flaw is one that we always look for when we're pre-installing overhangs.
If they were going to use the table to build the hipsets, then I would suggest to flatten the plane out, if they were going to lay any ply...which they probably won't. Even then, it would take some serious out of planeness to affect the ultimate quality. Those hipsets flex a considerable amount when we are lifting them.
blue, fom NCWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Winding sticks are just two straight sticks set across each each end(and sometimes the middle) of something you want to check for twist(like a door). You then sight across the top on one stick so you can just see the other. Any twist in the panel will show between the sticks as two lines out of parallel. In your case you might want to use a couple levels, or anything longer, as long as they are straight,parallel rips. A couple 2x4's off the pile probably wouldn't do it.
Heres a plan view of the roof. Its a pretty basic ranch. We are almost duplicating what we've just completed next door, so we don't have much thinking to do....we just look over to see where we goofed up and avoid that same mistake!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
We're going to build the walls in an order that allows us to see as were setting them with the crane.
Wall number 1 is actually the table. Wall 2 and 3 are the sides of the garage.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
So what is the purpose of a 'table',blue? It looks like you've built a wall on saw-horses to me...or is that the table?
I didn't do it....the buck does NOT stop here.
Yes FramerT..you are right on! You get a bonus milkbone for that observation.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
man framer beat me to it
Butch...those milkbones are precious...you gotta be fast!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Okay...I wish I could have shown pictures of the garage going up and being built, but here's the garage standing.
What I really would have like is to have a movie of Frank working his crown molding. that was hilarious. Were not too good at crown molding...but I finally settled on a technique. I ditched all the mitre boxes and made a simple plywood pattern. My makita is doing better than all the other junk that we tried.
Frank insisted on using his coping saw to cope the corner...but you should have seen him making firewood!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Here's a close up of the garage.
I forgot to put the top jambs on. Oh well....I think I'll be able to reach them realtively easy. I normally put them on before we stand the wall, but because the wall was on the table and I haven't been table building lately, I just forgot! I couldn't do the side jambs becasue we had to keep the bottom plates on to keep the wall intact.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
OOps..I better hurry and post the pic before i owe another bone!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I finally got the wall #5 sheathed and papered. I'm starting the brick rack right now. I've rounded up all the 12" blocks that I could find and there's a couple of 9"ers in the mix.
I'll use anything for the brick blocks...as long as it's fast.
Notice the nice blue saw box. I normally toss the saw boxes out as soon as I get the saw out...but this latest Makita box intrigued me...I couldn't toss it...I knew it has some special qualities...so it rode in the back of my cab for a week.
Finally, I knew why I saved it.
If you look at the far left of the picture...you can see the fire bucket. Nobody love a fire bucket more than me.
Notice too that theres not much scrap laying around.....I eyeballed that piece of crown mold at least ten times today....
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
The Pistons are starting...they play Philly tonite.
I'll finish later tonite.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Okay...the Pistons aren't playing Philly...they're playing Portland and losing at the half.
Welll now I know why I saved that saw box....it's square and I can sit on it while I eat lunch! I can keep it on my work station and sneak party pizzas anytime I want!
Woohoo!
Look...I even kept the saw blade wrench...I must be getting senile.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Edited 12/18/2004 8:46 pm ET by blue_eyed_devil
I've installed the soffit ply. The near end will terminate at the cantilevered chimney box. That first piece looks nasty, but it will look perfect when your looking at the finished side.
Frank's been screwing off all day...he's supposed to be out here helping, but he always manages to find some other important duty!
Ben is carrying lumber by hand...like normal. He hates operating the crane or the lift!
Still no scraps to burn....
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
The soffit is blocked at the joints and I put one on the flat to catch the vent fasteners.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
The Pistons lost.
In this pic, I'm putting the layout on the fascia. Steve was walking by and he snapped this pic.
I'm hamming it up a little...I'm not used to being in the picture....now I know what the other guys feel like. Usually they're saluting me...I can't show half the pictures of Ben.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Okay....this one's ready for the crane. The opening nearest the camera will eventually be the fireplace. We set the header up tite and frame down. That way, if the homeowner suddenly decides to have a rasied hearth, we're prepared for it.
The fireplace is a direct vent unit. I like those becasuse we don't have to build a chase.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
OOps...Heres the pic.
Incidently, we duplicating the house that is in the background.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Up, up and away!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Wall #5 has landed, Frank is unhooking and Steve is, is...I don't know.
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Wall 6 is the remainder of the back wall. I got it framed and 90% sheathed and we had lunch...which never ended. Then the snow hit and we all headed home for the weekend.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I"m laying out the truss layout on the top plate before I install it on wall #6.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Ben has finished the stringers and needs help setting them. Frank and Steve have ran off for gas and lunch...I guess I'll have to help him. I'd show him how to set them alone, but there's no reason to. He'd figure that out if he had to.
We installed those beasts and Ben is wondering why there is a gap. He'll figure out something...he loves building those stairs.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Heres a look at the table set up as viewed from the deck. Were in the end of a cul-de-sac and theres a crew right next to us on the left. That makes it unfair to them to stage materials on both sides of the table. It's not the best setup..but it'll do. It's better if you can get the materials only one or two steps away.Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
More on Monday.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
blue .. great series..!
??? you aren't one to put in studs where you don't need them..
it looks like ther are quite a few on this wall that could be eliminated or spread..
other than that .. keep 'em comming
View ImageMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike....you are very observant!
There are a couplea weird stud bays in there.
The window on the left was a change order...we had to fill it in. The only other wasted studs are the jacks on that little window. I don't know what happened...I think I was daydreaming and nailing and I noticed that I had nailed the bottom cripple to the jack...and the actual layout was an inch away. Because I'm sometimes very anal, I simply cut and added the next cripple on the layout...and as I finished nailing it laughed at myself for being so anal!
For some reason, I have an aversion to skipping outside wall layout studs! I don't understand it....I just think wackily like that. Frank skips the close ones all the time..but I feel guilty because I know the insulators are bringing fiberglass batts and they'll have to splice the slightly wider sections?
Does anyone really know if it matters?
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
It is fine stuff blue. I looked at all of yer pics.you ever get bored?I did production framing for a good while and got bored to death.it took a priest a goat and a virgin to save me...i am enjoying the picshub
"it took a priest a goat and a virgin to save me..."
This sounds interesting.Who Dares Wins.
i gave the church the goat cause virgins are hard to come by and they already had one
Hub, I don't really get bored framing...but I get angry when the money isn't right...and it seems to happen in cycles. We just fixed the money problem but I don't like it....it hurts the guys and I believe they deserve better.
I noticed in earlier threads that some in here find that framing walls is "routine", while framing and cutting roofs is the cream of the crop. I've always looked at the walls as just as big of a challenge....just in a different way. If I'm doing a routine house, my production goals get ramped up so high, that it's actually a bigger challenge than working on the big old cut up monsters.
For some reason, I thrive on the routine....trying to figure ways to save steps and make things easier. I probably should have been a time-study engineer or something like that.
This table framing is in it's infancy stages for me. I've only built off a table on one other job....a six unit townhouse. On that job, I framed every wall, in and out. I sent the walls up separate, and sent most of the interior up in packages.
I do prefer to frame on the tables because my back is so whacked. I probably will never frame another wall on the deck. I'm in the infancy stages of my latest (and probably my last) evolutionary step. Its something I'd often thought of, but never could because of lack of equipment. Now...there's no excuse.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
well i admire your economy of effort. it is an art form of it's own.money makes the world good on ya
Thank You hubcap for the kind words. I take all compliments from other tradesmen to heart!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Today was quite interesting. It started out below zero. It was so cold the creek froze. As I was looking to see the ice over the creek, I noticed a couple of ducks feeding in the open water. The creek is about 50 feet from my front window. I can barely see the water in summer, so I like it when I get to see the waterfowl in fall, winter and spring.
I started the day at about 11pm...Frank got there at about 10 and was finishing the sheathing on wall 6.
We worked till 4pm (took about an hour lunch).
I then met my SIL and went Xmas shopping for my wife. We did great!
I only got home at a little after 10pm and I'll post as much as I can till midnight. I got some great shots today.
BlueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Here's wall 6 and 7 leaving the tables.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue, thanks for taking the time to post those pictures
If only I had a crane when I was framing, what I could have done....
I got a question for you, something I found out the hard way.
When you frame your walls laying down, then put your cornice w/soffit on
the wall. Do you make sure your wall is straight before you put your soffit on.
I found out that (using 16' masonite 12" wide) that any bends or crooks in
the wall will be locked in once you put that masonite on edge against that wall.
It (soffit) acks like a beam when put on edge and is very strong.
ONe other question. With your sub-fascia on how dow you attach to your trusses
once you get those on. I always toe-nailed the tails to the sub fascia.
Keep on Boogerin
signed , Knucklehead
Butch, a small crane can make life so much easier on rough frames. Around here, a lot of guys spend a lot of money on big new ones, but thats a huge overkill unless you have money to burn and don't mind an expensive machine sitting idle.
YOur observation about having the walls straight and the soffit system locking it the way it is, proves that you learned a good lesson. It's interesting to me, because that exact concept was the catalyst that turned on my light bulb in my first year as a framer. Before I figured that concept out, I was frustrated and confused.....when that concept was made clear to me (we were in a bar on a rain day...holding class), all the pieces fell into place.
Another huge issue about keeping everything straight (and sturdy) was my decision to NOT cut out the second top plate for partitions. Eliminating that made all the exterior walls significantly sturdier...they keep their shape a lot better with two solid plates that are well staggered at the joints. Cutting the plates out puts too many weak spots in a wall.
I remember a few very wavy, frustrating walls, where I did't do a good job of getting the soffit system parallel and straight. Sledghammering them into submission isn't fun....
Heres a picture of our truss-soffitt connection. I usually put a couple of solid face nails into the subfascia. I also nail the bottom edge of the plywood securely at about 4" oc.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Heres a picture of our truss-soffitt connection. I usually put a couple of solid face nails into the subfascia. I also nail the bottom edge of the plywood securely at about 4" oc.
It's heck getting old, I remember now asking you that same exact question
not to long ago
Yeah, when we built walls w/cornice we always had to build it on the deck
slide over so overhang at end of wall would clear the wall it was abutting,
then raise it, then slide it over to the correct place, and that was always fun.
Espicially, when you had a brick box w/ 12" overhang trying to pull its self
over the other way while your trying to slide the thing.
Man I wish I could find those pictures so I could show them here,
I remember taking some but I just don't know what I did with them....
knuckelhead
warning! when posting to blue be advised, he may call you a knuckelhead :-)
Hehehe...I like your new disclaimer!
I never liked sliding the walls. Typically, we would just leave a 2' patch and hang over from the inside to tie the pine. I developed some very simple procedures for that too.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
We papered the three walls together and now are prefabbing the porch frame. It will slide down between the sidewalls about 12". It has a little jog that extends out beyond one of the side walls.
The basic frame is 2 x 4 24'' oc. I block between them only at the joints.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
This pic shows Frank tearing off the soffitt vent. He had centered the vent, but forgot that we had crown mold to put on.
The one wingwall is 44'' and it's a perfect height for the scaffold plank.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Frank is installing the last piece of brick mold. We're using a rough sawn 1x2 for the molding. He installs it 4.25" away from the wall and the brick will tuck behind it.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I've finished the flying prep. We'll hook it in two spots and hope it stands up reasonably plumb and level. It's a guessing game on stuff like this. I was going to strap the near side one bay higher and then changed my mind. I wasted a simpson plate and 8 nails....and twenty seconds!
I'm feeling guilty...
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
This shot shows our progress from afar, from the road. The other crew is still working. They are building the house on the right. It's hard to see it, but it is just to the right of the garage. It's a weird situation....their house almost faces the side of our garage. On the far right, you can see one of their crew standing. They are sheathing their front wall...nothing is standing yet.
One more thing...I noticed that the camera has reset the dates. I hate that camera.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
like your new disclaimer
Yeah...I'd knew you would, couldn't resit.
Okay...back at it. I gotta get the rest of yesterday posted and head in. I've only got today and tomorrow to get as much done on that house because Thursday is a travel day. I'm heading to North Carolina for the holidays.
Our final wall yesterday is actually the three walls that comprise the porch entry. Frank framed the 12' tall wall, while I framed the 9' side walls. Frank let me choose which one I wanted to frame. I hate framing tall walls.
This pic shows the three in their initial stages.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Frank is shown finishing the overhang. He's standing on a simply plank, and it's a bit cold and windy and he's complaining a bit about how cold it is....because he's facing into the wind. I was toasty warm, running to get him the parts he needed to finish.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Here's my final method of cutting the crown mold. On the last job, I wrestled an inadequate power mitre box and a too small hand mitre box. I had an old decent hand mitre box that worked fine, but it is lost or stolen or whatever. Anyways, rather than hauling out a sliding mitre box, I'm simply marking the crown on the backside and cutting it with my winder. That system is working perfect!
Here's my version of the speed square.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
While Frank is finalizing the porch trim, I am prepping the wall for it's flight. It's not a particular heavy wall, but heavy enough to cause me some concern about separation issues. If we let the wall separate as it's lifted, it's difficult to get it back tight...so an ounce of preparation is worth a pound of.....
I'm installing 3'' x 6'' simpson tie plates. These mending plates are actually very handy on a rough frame job.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I wasn't able to get any pictures of the porch flying because my battery fizzled. I think it just got too cold. As the porch was flying, I took the battery out of the camera and laid it next to the fire. I figured I could get a coupla more pics if I could heat it up a little. I managed to get one of the porch just as it landed.
I tucked the battery in my pocket to heat it up for the final shots of the day.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Okay...that's it for yesterday...I gotta get ready, then do the hour drive. IF there aren't any traffic ties ups (I had a half hour delay yesterday because of an accident) I can get to the job in a little under an hour. That gives me about 6 hours today, and maybe 6 more tomorrow and I'm on vacation!
Today, we'll easily finish the walls, and start the trusswork. The trusswork consists of a double reverse gable over the left side of the house (over the sitting room and porch), a garage gable, and two hipsets.
At least it'll be warmer (about 30 for the high).
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
blue.. do you own the crane ?
and what about the lull.. are they both for your job ?
have a good time in NC.. our tarheels came north for ChristmasMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, I bought that old crane about 3 or 4 years ago. I think I gave about 15,000. The guys had used it for framing for the last 5 years and had bought a "new" used one for about 75k. When we were negotiating for the crane, he offered to sell me either crane. He was willing to keep the old one. That offer sealed the deal for me....I was concerned that there was some serious hidden defects. I ran it over a year before they threw a rod in the dead of winter.
The old one is an okay framer's rig. I had to put a new engine in it...and did a bunch of maintenance items at the same time, so it's actually very reliable.
We bought the Skytrak this spring. I consider it to be the more valuable of the two machines, even though I love having a crane onsite. If I had to choose only one, I'd choose the lift. One of the major reasons that we bought a new one was because of the generous Bush tax incentive. We will be able to write off 80% of the purchase in the first year. You ought to look into that if you think you will have tax liabilitys this year. Hurry though...I think it expires at the end of 2004.
Anyone who is serious about framing should downsize his laborer and buy a lift.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Doode, if you get anywhere near Chapel Hill, you beter come buy me a chocolate milkbone<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
BB, If I get ANYWHERE chapel hill, I'll be there!
I'm looking it up on my streets and maps program.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
BB, its only about 50 miles. I'll try to figure something out as soon as I figure out what the family plans are.
Should I bring a sidewinder?
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I've got sidewinders a-plenty...just acquired an old 8 1/4 PC with a shoe just like you like it. I can smell a boogerin' good time<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
BB, I guess I could fire up a PC...without cussing too much.
What kind of project are you currently working on? I'm curious about what tools I have to steal from my SIL?
Greensboro is warm...but rainy today.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I'm only 45 mins east...and get this, I found an old B&D in the shop with yer kinda shoe. Seems like they usta make "em that way on purpose<G>I'm trimming a SIP's right now...the framing would be embarassing if I was a framer...but, hey talk about leaving out studs!I'm closing down shop between Xmas & New Year's...if you can't make it over here, I might be able to make it over there...I'd love to meet you, over here would be great, cause I'm trying to get a woodstove in. You got a strong back, right?<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
BB, I don't know what SIP's are, but if it involves skimping on studs, it must be good!
That B&D sounds perfect too, I'm sure I could hack a hole through your trusses with it for that stove pipe.
I'm thinking Monday might be a good day to hook up.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
East or west?Gabe sent me 2 bucks to take you out to dinner, so, you're hooked up<G>Click my name, call me, I'm looking forward to it, and in a pleasant way<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Two bucks worth of arsenic won't even give me a tummy ache.
I don't mind the drive...I've driven 11 hours already....what's another 45 minutes?
I'll ring the bell tomorrow.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Heres the updated wall list. I've circled the walls that we set today.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
It was a little windy and I remembered the recent thread about windy gables breaking against the boom, so I taglined wall 7. Steve is the rookie of our crew and is closest to me as he and Ben receive the wall.
Wall #7 is the side wall of the master suite. We'll tuck it in between the interior partitions that Steve has been framing and the temp electric meter box.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Wall 7 has landed and I was in a great spot to get a shot of the cornice connection before they pulled the wall plumb. The big challenge here is to get all the pine cut to the exact length...not to long on any component...not too short....but Juuuusssssttttt right!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
It was so cold this morning that Ben took back his fire bucket. He's got it set up in his work area on the deck.
Frank and I were forced to either freeze or improvise. We improvised. At first, we just built an open fire on the concrete street. After about an hour, the concrete let loose a huge boom and sent hot flaming cinders and chunks of street flying all over. Frank was standing about 5 feet away. He was freaked out and wondered what happened and wondered if more was coming. I wasn't so startled...I had experienced this before..but forgot that it would happen. I quickly shoveled the remaining hot cinders into a spot on the mud and re-fired up our flames.
Us old guys have bad memories!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
The cornice went together smooth! The "trick" is to get the pine nailed before the frame is tied. I start by aligning and nailing the frieze. I then align and nail the fascia. Then, I put a block behind the soffit and nail that. Finally, Ben ties the top plates together.
If you do it in reverse order, the plates will fit perfect and there will usually be a slight gap in the frieze or fascia that you can't tighten.
This connection is very good. I musta had a sharp saw...heres several views of the finished corner.
Before I start the next walls, I'll grab the stapler and tighten up the paper too.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I'm too tired...I'll post the remaining pictures tomorrow morning before I head to the job.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
not bad for an olde faht..
well done .. ain't chu got any of those hand warmer thingys.. you know, the chemical ones that you knead and put in your pocket..?
the quahoggers use 'em a lotMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, I've never used one of those handwarmer thingys. I think I remember the boys trying differnt stuff, but I've always loved my fire buckets. They not only warm my hands, but they warm my entire body. I find that if I can just rewarm myself every time a hint of cold comes over me, I stay mentally in the game a lot better. Without that bucket, I just get miserable and have to pile on too much clothes.
Thanks for the "not bad" comment. I know a compliment when I hear one!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
That's a mighty fine looking cornice. Neat how it interlocks, with the nailing sequence favoring tight trim before the plate corners are locked.
Thnks Pierre1, it took me a long time to re-evaluate my thinking reagarding sequence. Over the years, it was rare for me to fit two fully built overhangs together, because we didn't normally have the luxury of easily sliding them in together...when I started doing more like this, it dawned on me that I was doing them azzbackwards!
It really does take a lot of effort for an old dog to learn new tricks.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue, very cool pics. If I had a crane, I would build from the ground as you'd do. Right now, I'd just be glad to have another job lined up, although I don't mind waiting until the weather gets better.
Does the house get brick?
I assume the gap on the stairs was due to the crown in the stringer assembly.
Don't you have to use treated lumber wherever it touches concrete? (stringer photo)Les Barrett Quality Construction
Thanks Les, for the nice comments.
The crane certainly makes life easier on our backs. Ironically though, my worst WC case regarding back injuries was during the time that we had the crane. The guy that is working the WC system, was just one of those kind of guys....it's no wonder I'm a bit jaded...
Yes the house gets brick...on all four sides. Brick is a wonderful thing...I think it should be a law that all houses get all brick!
I think the gap was caused by an out of plumb header. It might have been just the plywood riser was out of plumb. That was too much gap for a small crown and Ben wouldn't use a severly crowned stringer. He's smart enough to avoid that trap.
We only use treated lumber when it sits on concrete. The studs that are hanging the stairs and are laying up against the basement wall are white wood. I don't know if that is good or bad, but that's the only way it's done and it always passes code.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Re skipped studs close to layout . . . don't ask me, I'm framing on 24s.
Gene, I'm jealous...but if I frame on 24" oc, I'm fail to pass code and the builder would have a heart attack and I wouldn't get paid...then I'd have a heart attack.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Halftimes over....Ill be back.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Okay...I got there this morning about 9am...and this is where we were at. I would have shown some pictures of the Garage being framed...but my batteries on the camera were shot...and I only got a few pictures in the morning.
Basically, this shows the garage standing and we're working on the first wall of the house...it's numbered #5. It will extend behind the cantilevered chimney, but we won't be putting the chimney on it. Were shooting for the roof....we'll getall the walls up and then send the chimney on after the trusses, unless we are faster than we think we'll be.
I doubt that we'll be faster. We work fine, when we work, but setting up out in the street invites a ton of conversation. We've chatted with the roofer, the builder, the tool/nail guy...if we worked as much as we chatted...we'd be done already!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Frank was busy staging the materials. Heres Frank sending in some TJI's.
Ben and Steve have evidently gotten the mudsills down and are now ready for the joist.
If you look closely, you can still see that diagonal brace that was holding the beam from the beam setting pictures.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue,
Few questions if you don't mine. What is the selling price of what your framing? How have the sales been? I see you guys do the fasica/ soffit, do you also have to install exterior doors & windows, garage jambs, & decking? Much backout? Hand cut stairs or pre fab? What can a crew gross on one house, is it by the sq.ft? How much time does the builder give you? Do you guys supply the materials or the builder? Do you also do the siding? Not trying to be a PITA, just like to see how much different it is in production in different parts of the country.
Seasons Greetings!
G8, my pricing is an open book. How could I ever get a job if I kept my prices secret?
When we contract a rough frame job, we take it from the mudsill to the roof sheathing. We do install all the exterior trim and millwork...meaning we do wood siding and windows and the exterior doors. We cut our own stairs. I don't know what the term "backout" means, but I think it might refer to " feature framing" inside after the trusses are set. Around here, there are typically a couple of vaulted ceilings, or stepped ceilings and a normal supply of items like roman tubs and shower benches, etc. Big customs will usually have a significant amount of feature framing..meaning two days or so for the entire crew.
I think we spent one day on the last house...but we'll get a lot more done on the ground this time around...it helps to be familiar with the specific house and elevation.
Our sales have been steady. I was turning down work in the spring and summer, but things have slowed considerably. I don't know if well be steady all winter. I hope we can work at least 50%.
This particular house is actually 1750 sq ft. I thought it was about 1550 sf, but Frank told me today that all the ranches had been expanded by a coupla feet across the back and they were 1750sf. I'm not entirely positive about the exact price (Frank negotiated this entire deal, but I'm reasonably sure it is in the $15k neighborhood...maybe 15,200 or something like that. The other crew is doing them for $1500, maybe $2000 less than us, and that limits our ability to charge more. The builder told us that he's had about 100 framers stop by his trailer and try to get the frames...my ex partner, Forest, just told me that Pulte had almost shut down and there are a lot of framing crews roaming the Metro Detroit area...
Oh well...that's business!
The builders generally are pushy about time...because time is money. We generally divide the dollar amount by 2000 to estimate the length of time to complete the job. We would be willing to promise that house in 7.5 days, weather permitting, using 4 men. Most builders want to see more than four men, but we don't cater to that line of thinking....they have to take us as we are, or we'll just mosey on down the road.
I'm not sure what your asking when you ask "what can a crew gross?". We are grossing 15k. Our profit margin has been fixed (by us) at about 30% of that number. We "fixed" our margin by simply telling our guys what we were willing to pay out on payroll. We simply had to take drastic measures to stay in business. If they weren't willing to accept the amount left over for their payroll, we were going to frame it ourselves (Frank and I). I spent acouple of years framing with my expartner Forest and we did very well for ourselves...much better that this year has been.
This business is not what it used to be...I actually recomended to our best carpenter to start looking at other careers....framing is going downhill and I don't see it coming back in my lifetime. It's a good hobby...not a career that you'd want to raise a family on.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Okay....I've got some good news, and some bad news. The bad news is that a storm is threatening our travel plans for early Thursday morning. The good news is that I'm leaving town tomorrow morning!
All that means I won't be able to cap this house and finish up the truss work table framing. Bummer. Oh well, that'll leave me another Boogerin series.
And...some more bad news...not too bad...but slightly bad. I came up with a brilliant idea today. I was a bit frustrated with my batteries dying, so I brought my Kodak docking station (it charges the battery) to work. I figured that if I charge it when I'm not using it (the camera), then I'd be able to snap pics all day. Well, at one point I put the camera in the docking station with it still on, and when I tried to snap a picture, it wouldn't work. So...I still wasn't able to finish the day with a camera.
I just tried the camera and it is working now. I don't know if it's bad to do what I did, but it seem okay now.
On with the show....
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I got to the job and Frank was just getting there. He was just measuring wall 9, 10, and 11.
We framed all three at the same time, then I concentrated on wall 9, which is actually two small walls. Frank worked on Wall 10.
This pic shows where the walls will land.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Edited 12/21/2004 9:50 pm ET by blue_eyed_devil
Heres a pic showing the progress on the interior partitions. Ben is getting the north wing done while Steve is about to cut in a set of angled plates. Of course, he'll eyeball the cuts just like I taught him. I stood and watched and he flawlessy mitred the rough plates in. I would show the cutting sequence but Taunton would just yank the pics because there isn't enough safety equipment attached to Steve's saw.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Frank is building the soffit on Wall 10. It will have to drop in between the porch and th garage.
I've already got my two little walls going together..you can see them on theright.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Were dropping it into it's respective position.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
We cut the fascia long on the wall yesterday. I'll have to get my Makita.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
By the time I got that corner fixed, Frank was ready to send his wall.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
The problem will be easy to solve. I'll just cut the subfascia out of the way.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Now heres the bad news. When I tried to take pictures of the tied corners, the camera wouldn't work at all. All it did was show a green blinking light.
So...sorry, I can't show any more pics and I'll be heading to Greensboro tomorrow at 5am or so.
I will report that by the time I got all the pine done, I had to go out and help frank put the crown mold on the queen ann returns. We then sent the wall up and set it. I tied one corner on that and the guys were talking game plan.
The game plan was that we would leave the final wall (our table) down so frank can build his gables on it. Ben and Steve were done with all the interior partitions and they were done straightening the house up and were ready for trusses. They are going to assemble the hipsets while I tied loose ends up on the house.
They also informed me that it was time to go...that we were all going to Hooters for our Xmas party.
We went over to Hooters and we ate chicken wings and clams while staring at some hotties in tight tee shirts and very short and tite shortshorts. There were some incredible smoking bodies serving in there... but none were interested in a fat old man that is deaf, greyhaired, blind and a boogering fool! At least I was polite and didn't stare at our server for more than a minute straight,
So....we didn't accomplish our goal of having all the walls up...but we certainly could have...we had plenty of light left to put the paper and overhang on that last wall..but that's okay....we'll survive.
I was impressed with the game plan meeting with the guys. We hashed over five or six problem areas from the last job and will make this one a lot simpler. We already have a lot more of the interior partitions done that the last (we lacked a lot of information) and each of the guys planned to change a few of their techniques. It's going to be a good run to the finish line.
And the competition? Well, they did better than I expected. They got their entire back wall up and also wall 11 and the interior partition between the garage and the house...which is an extension of wall 11. I wish I could have gotten a picture. They were still working there when we left.
Happy Holidays. I'll get a final picture after the new year! I'll try to log in when I'm in North Carolina and will happily answer any questions.
Hope you enjoyed this thread...I know I enjoyed sharing it with you. Sorry about not being able to get the last few pics...dang fussy cameras!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Steve and I land the wall and we can't push it out plumb. Something must be wrong somewhere.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Frank left a small section to patch on the left side of the wall. I'll tie all that pine while Frank builds wall 11.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Mighty fine - mighty fine. Wonderful pics and comments.
Blue, do you have personal property tax there? I tend to think of it as a non-democratic slavery tax, but I may be wrong. In my mind, I should only pay tax when I buy someting. Where I live, they want money every year for what I bought many years ago, just because they think i have deep pockets. I only have deep pockets if you cut the bottom out. Then there's no bottom and I could be taxed into infinity.
The reason I bring this up is that I could probably get a loan for a lift or a crane that would cost me less than one crew member on a monthly basis. Of course, either one of these mechanical marvels could save a whole lot of work.
The problem is that I would have to pay the cost of the crane
the cost of the interest
the cost of the tax
the cost of the maintenance
OK, I can bear that load.
But then when I have finished paying all of that and adding it into my price and charging my customers/clients, I will still have to keep paying a tax every year, even if the equipment sits on my ten acres and never gets used again. If I change my work style and never use the crane again, and it just takes up space in the back of the barn, I still have to pay. When the crane is not economically reparable, I still have to pay.
I know you are not H&R Block, but I would be interested to hear your opinion on personal property tax.Les Barrett Quality Construction
Les, taxes are part of the equation. There's no escaping them. Fortunatly, the lawmakers intentionally leave huge loopholes in the system to allow wealth people to minimize their taxes.
The difference between wealthy people and ordinary taxpayers is desire...desire to pay less. The wealthy study the tax laws, them make decisions which minimize their burden. The ordinary taxpayer doesn't want to bother with such mundane nonsense...they'd rather watch sitcoms and pay the tax and complain.
I read a book called The Cashflow Quadrant that forever changed my attitude about taxes, money, business, self employment, and a couple other things. One of the primary lessons that Robert Kyosaki teaches is that if we want to become wealthy, we need to educate ourselves about financial matters. We need to broaden our financial intellect...we need to expand our financial vocabulary. No one will do this for us...we need to do this ourselves.
If you can afford to hire a CPA s to advise you on you tax matters, then I would suggest it. Stop worrying about paying taxes. Consider it a privilege to pay them...for if you didn't owe any, it might mean you didn't have any income.
The wealthy get rich because they think about money, debt and investment in a way that is different from ordinary taxpayers. You are free to join either group.
Remember...you get what you wish for.
I don't know if I have to pay personal property tax on the machine. I do know that my accountant advised me that it would be a wise investment. I also know that it provides a net gain over expenses. I financed about 80% of it, spread over 5 years. I just didn't think it was that big of a decision. If you want to play with the big boys, you have to start somewhere.
My suggestion: stop your negative attitude. Think rationally and unemotionally about where you are in your business and what you need in your business to make the most out of your situation. You are a bright person and when you eliminate the emotion, you will make the right decision.
Don't overextend yourself if you can't withstand the consequences. At this point in my life, I'm not too worried about making those payments. Even in the worst case scenario, all they are going to do it take back the machine. I don't find that risky at all...it's a bigger risk for them! I'll still wake up tomorrow and have to go to work somewhere!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue, did you see my post.....
any comments or was I being to simple :-)
Butch...I finally got settled in...I'm in North Carolina...I spent yesterday driving and playing with the grandkids when I got here. I answered that post already...thanks for the suggestion.
blue Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Consider it a privilege to pay them...for if you didn't owe any, it might mean you didn't have any income.
My uncle is a CPA and always says that "you don't go broke making money". Understand first that the higher taxes are a consequence of making money, so plan accordingly.
Blue, That problem you had with your fascia running long.
That was one of my greatest "fears" when framing like that
but I never had that "problem" because I did something that
was very simple yet completely eliminated any potential problem.
You probably are aware of it and its' very hard to describe
something here. But all I did when turning corners is to simulate
on that end stud whatever was gonna be their(the wall it was going to abut), like
1/2" osb, than 1x(brickbox),2x(brickbox), than 1x brick fascia, than soffit, w/2x
(subfascia), than fascia,I would tack all this on the end of that stud(very short pcs.,3"
scraps w/appropriate miters) so that when it was stood up it turned the corner
perfectly. Of course all those "scrap pcs."were taken off before the wall was raised.
I'm not trying to insult your intelligence with this, but you never know, sometimes the
simple answer sometimes get buried in the rush to "geter done". Let me know if
this makes any sense, as I have a hard time here trying to describe a 3
dimensional idea w/ 1 dimensional words.
Edited 12/21/2004 11:50 pm ET by butch
Butch, I understand your suggestion and it's a perfectly great suggestion. I'm going to mull it over and possibly make a "temp-pattern" which could be tacked on, then easily removed and saved for the next wall.
Understand that we've basically been platform framing, not table framing, so we will be making some major adjustments to our "system" as we gain experience. We are basically raw rookies in this system and already I can think of at least ten different ways to improve on the next one.
Your suggestion is appreciated.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I've finished my wall(s) and have strapped it in one spot. I'm not putting any layout on this wall..its a complicated section and Im not in the mood to think about it.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!