We’re going gas tankless:
Utility will pipe gas to house from street for free if we go H20 htr and appliance. We’re all electric now and will go gas range in addtn to tankless htr. Looks like we can get up to 800 in state and fed tax credit.
We’re story & 1/2 bungalow–down bath, kitchen and laundry are all within 15′ of where the heater will go–the old stairwell to basment that’s no longer there since house was moved, now accessed by exterior–and proposed upstairs bath is right above it.
I can place it on the exterior wall or about a foot from it for venting. Code wise are there rules to look out for for vent termination? As to proximity to other stuff–people–openings?
Sizing wise it looks like 4.5 to 6.5 gal / min is overkill. Looking at Noritz 531 or 631. I’ll install the unit myself.
Any recommendations on brands? Installer’s preference? Thoughts?
Also looks like the only gas downdraft range is Jenn-air? There’s the old brick chimney in the wall so venting down seems best. Any others come to mind?
Any thoughts appreciated.
Replies
Greetings Waters,
This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again which will increase it's viewing.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers
Peach full,
easy feelin'.
"Looks like we can get up to 800 in state and fed tax credit."
There is no federal tax credit. It expired.
" Code wise are there rules to look out for for vent termination? As to proximity to other stuff--people--openings?"
But I don't know how much is spelled in the codes, but it is spelled out in the installation instrucitons. Might be some variation from brand to brand. But download the manual for one that you are looking at and use that as a starting point.
"Also looks like the only gas downdraft range is Jenn-air? "
There are addon down drafts, some that popup. Probably require a deeper cabinet tha the basic 24".
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thanks Bill,
My buddy who works as an energy analyst for state or OR says they renewed the federal credit.
Maybe he's wrong.
You have no preference to brand of unit?
Pat"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
As many times as people are warned to not undersize their tankless units it still happens all the time. Don't undersize your unit! The number one complaint is not putting out enough hot water.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Yes, I was given a Noritz unit, out of a fire sale. It's a 3-something gpm unit as I deduced from the 2 model #'s on it and that it has only a 3" vent. Only one model of theirs had a 3" vent.
Not enough.
I'll buy new. Any name brand preference?
Noritz appears to be pretty reputable."Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
If you're using propane, there are pretty restrictive regulations about tank size/placement in relation to house(s). Check with you local building department.
Yes, there are definitely exhaust/intake spacing issues. Great question. As a rule of thumb, you don't want any intake(able) penetrations in the building shell within...let me think...I'm pretty sure it's a 5' radius of an exhausting vent.
BUT (notice that's a big but?) "simple rules for simple fools". Investigate it until you're satisfied you know what you're doing. Retrofits provide prime opportunity for well intentioned people to get unhealthy air entering their home.
Great question.I'll eat your peaches, mam. I LOVE peaches!
Jim,
Thank you.
Yes I learned the hard way once. The only locale for the direct vent gas furnace--and it's termination--happened to be too close to the meter. Had to get the meter moved.
Thanks for reply.
Pat"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
I'll buy new. Any name brand preference?
After working with a few of the various major brands through various problems I'd say it's a good bet to go with a model that you can have serviced by someone you trust if things go bad. My favorite HVAC guy only works with Rinnai and doesn't have a clue about a Takagi or others. One plumber we've used only works with Bosch, another won't install tankless heaters at all.
Since they aren't real popular right now, not everyone knows much about them and nothing is worse than trying to locate a good problem solver if the thing doesn't work. It's about like a new computerized car--just knowing how cars in general work isn't enough any more.
Before I moved from Wyoming I wouldn't hesitate to say Takagi made the most sense because that's what we used a lot of. Here in Boise my choice would be a Rinnai, simply because the guys I'm going to have install it know it inside and out.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
True.
Years ago I bought a little Monitor products gas direct vent heating unit. Back East I'd seen them all over and everyone swore by them.
I found somebody to get it for me. I installed it myself. Then it crapped out.
The one local outfit that knew anything about them was pretty unnsuccessful. I finally went straight to the company and forcefully pleaded my case for the warranty and got a new board for it.
Fixed it.
I'll see what's most popular locally."Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
I researched this issue for myself last fall. I went with a Takagi T-K3. Note this chart:
http://www.tanklessusa.com/product_comparison.htm
The reason I did was because of the low flow rate - where the unit first turns on. Even 1/2 gal a minute is fairly fast. And some faucets are retentive. 3/4 of a gallon speed is too much for me if I'm shaving or washing dishes.
This T-K3 starts at .5GPM but continues running down to .4. Thats the lowest I've seen. As well as it runs up to 6.5. Which is enuff to run several water appliances at once.
I caution you about sizing based upon "2 or 3 showers running at the same time." How often does that really happen? Or because you have 4 bathrooms (and only you and your wife are there). Size it based upon your actual need.
And place it as close as possible to your most frequent point of use.
And don't for a minute compromise the venting.
Once I selected the unit, I checked on line for a source locally. The one I called turned out to be a distribution facility only and referred me to their biggest outlet. I called them and asked for the plumber or company that has bought the most from them. So I got the most experienced (I think) installer for my product in the area.
Although I mentioned to him that I knew the unit was available on line for about a little more than a grand, I wanted him to install it. Which involved an expansion tank, 25' of SS flue threaded up inside the existing 6" flue and all of the piping. Took him and a buddy all day. Cost me $3300. He got everything from his supply houses.
Hi. I recently finished installation of a tankless in my own home. I went with Bosch, which I'm sure will be met with grunts by some on this forum but seemed the right solution for my needs. I'm no plumber, but it was a very easy installation.
I found that the requirements for exterior applications on the Bocsh resulted in very few options on my house - minimum clearances from overhangs and openings just didn't work out. Check out the requirements for whatever brand and model you're looking at - it might help dictate your choice. Interior was no big deal - I lost less than 5 square feet from building a closet for the H2O heater. That said, I was building an addition, so putting in the closet and the 5" vent was no big deal. A retro 5" vent might be a PITA.
I have a 'mechanical closet' which was the old basement staircase, on the back wall of the house--accessable from outside. (House was moved)
I think I'll have an easy time of installation.
Thank you."Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
""Code wise are there rules to look out for for vent termination? As to proximity to other stuff--people--openings?"'
Absolutely .
Whether they are in the IIRC or the NFPC I don't recall.
Distance to openings in the building shell , foundation vents and eave vents are all items that need to be taken into account.
Most appliances will have the info listed in their installation manuals. I would bet that looking at a PDF of the install for any manual you can find on line will answer your questions.
I personally have a dislike of the down draft cooktops because they are by design fighting the laws of Physics. It requires a much larger volume air to be moved to create an effective exhaust then with an overhead exhaust unit.
I have since given up on the downdraft range! There is one model manuf. now that several brands have conglomerated...
I'll find a creative way of venting it--or go with the filter type."Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
Be sure to allow for additional combustion air for your tankless unit.