a book on Wiring your House has been recalled because
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09078.html
“The books contain several errors in the technical diagrams that could lead consumers to incorrectly install or repair electrical wiring, posing an electrical shock hazard to consumers.”
consumers !!!
never seen the book , don’t need a how to do Electrical Work reference, but this is sure funny ,
maybe they got someone at Lowes to do the drawings
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Replies
Why do you think it is funny?
my mistake, it's TWO books, one that is considered the BIBLE around here and the other by two "experts" it's funny because the Caldwell book is in it's third edition, I would have thought someone would have caught the errors, but since it's aimed at DIY folks how would they know if it's right or wrong ?? they just go about their business wiring their house and sharing their newfound knowledge with the neighbors, and patting themselves on the backl for NOT having to hire an electrician.. hey it ain't rocket science after all fellas and it's still funny because the other one is titled"Wiring Complete, Expert Advice from Start to Finish" so some proofreader at Taunton has not done their homework before releasing these for sale to "consumers"
and while there are plenty folks here who will happily tell you that wiring a house is no big deal, it could be if the errors in those books cause, oh I don't know, a FIRE, which is a bad thing if it's traced back to something you did.
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.. . . . . . . . Edited 1/18/2009 11:51 am by maddog3
Edited 1/18/2009 11:51 am by maddog3
"it's funny because the Caldwell book is in it's third edition, I would have thought someone would have caught the errors"Just to be clear, my understanding is that it only applies to the third edition and not the earlier ones (I own the 2nd edition or at least the one published in 2002). And according to the official recall, it hasn't really been in the market long (~10 months)."but since it's aimed at DIY folks how would they know if it's right or wrong ?? they just go about their business wiring their house and sharing their newfound knowledge with the neighbors, and patting themselves on the backl for NOT having to hire an electrician.. hey it ain't rocket science after all fellas"Do I detect some animosity towards non-professionals? :) I'm a DIYer. Just because I'm not a professional, doesn't mean I'm incapable of noticing an error, especially when the subject matter has the potential for so much harm. I approach electrical work very cautiously and might very well notice if a diagram wasn't correct. Here's the error (found after checking out that other message linked by Don):>>>
From BillHartmann:
On page 188, in the left-hand side diagram headed "Wiring a GFCI Receptacle with Both Protected and Unprotected Cables," the label, "To unprotected receptacles downstream" should read "To protected receptacles downstream." Likewise, "To protected receptacles downstream" should read "To unprotected receptacles downstream." The label "ground" points to the neutral wire, instead of the bare wire ground. In the right-hand side diagram headed "Wiring a Single GFCI Receptacle," the labels for "neutral" and "ground" are reversed.
>>>ALL of those errors would be noticed by any one with a basic understanding of electrical work -- What makes you so sure that it was a professional electrician that found the error?Cheers,
Justin
I'm not sure of anything ! and I think the recall spells out what books are affected anyone with basic reading skills would catch that and you're saying that all 64,000 people who bought one of these books have a basic knowledge of electricity, as far as animosity goes.. oh well
just because I use a knife to cut up my supper doesn't make me a surgeon Cheers to you.
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where I come from a fire is not considered funny. I can see why you would feel smug being an electrician, I guess The word funny just sounded mean spirited to me. It would be nice if Taunton or Cauldwell would come in here with a more detailed explanation of what exactly are the errors
, I know my limitations, but smug is something I rarely feel in fact I used to be a little more jovial around here but since the Holidays.... I don't give a ....I think it's hilarious and I'm usually my most serious when I clown around.
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The best that I can tell is that when this book is re-issued that they had new artwork done.I don't what or how much of the artwork was redone. Or why it was redone.And whoever did that art work messed up in adding the labels to a picture.And this same artwork was used in 2 different books.And I don't have an idea of what text was changed to cause them to have a new addition.I have no idea of how the books work. They have a much different time frame. But I was asked to review a magazine article last year. And I saw something in one picture that I though should have been changed. Right now I don't remember the details. IIRC it was not WRONG as much it was confusing compared with the text. Schedule did not allow for reshooting picture and they where going to try to fix it with photoshop..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
An informal survey is just that ... an indication something is amiss, but neither proof, nor a certain diagnosis. That there may be GFCI's out there that are miswired, or not functioning, is no surprise. Anything can break, or be installed wrong- and test equipment has it's own limitations.
Errors in books? Nothing's perfect. Jay Leno has built a career on finding misprints and poorly worded headlines. An error was made, and Taunton is doing what it can to fix things.
DIY books have their uses. If nothing else, they help the guy understand why electricians earn more than, say, convenience store clerks. I'm a little bit concerned by the implication someone made that electricians in his area were using DIY books as the local 'bible.' That's sort of like the local surgeon keeping a Red Cross manual around for reference. I would expect a journeyman electrician to be far advanced beyond anything in the DIY book.
(Though I do see their role for vacationing Chicago electricians. Also known as "the land of pipe," a Chicago electrician may never have seen Romex before).
reno, my reference to its use as a Bible was aimed at this forum, not local construction, and a Chicago, electrician would probably take his bender along with him, I would think even a sparks from Roselle would too.
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Thanks Bill ,
doesn't look like anyone remembered your suggestion, plenty expensive now,
no time to do it right but plenty of time to do it overI happen to agree with kenhill3 about proofreading the changes, sure seems like they a cut a fat hog in butt and saved a few dollars when they went to press.
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I read your post with interest because I own that book. I'm not an electrician and the book seems to be a good reference to provide me with insight.
I have to wonder what the errors are? They could be major or they could be minor, at least in my opinion. Obviously they were enough for a recall.
I am curious why you seem to be so excited about the fact that there are mistakes? Have you also written a book?
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
nope, just an electrician, who FWIW has not worked residential in decades I'm sure the books are good books, it's just that they have enough errors to warrant a recall because folks like yourself will not catch them,since you just do the work sporadically, but a buck had to be made and with 64,000 books being pulled that's a lot of headaches for Taunton I hope you don't have any problems with the work you have done using the book
and I do thank you for helping to prove my point Jon,.
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"I hope you don't have any problems with the work you have done using the book"
I misspoke earlier, I have the 1st edition, not the 3rd. So I don't think my book has the errors.
"and I do thank you for helping to prove my point Jon"
How did I do that? Are you saying that the only people who read the book should be electricians knowledgeable about all portions of electrical theory and practice?
BTW- you didn't answer my question as to why you seem to be elated about these mistakes?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
not at all,
what I'm saying is that electricians, at least the ones I work with, wouldn't buy the book, as I'm pretty sure books like that are intended for folks who have little or no electrical knowledge, so how would they know if there was an error
especially if they own both books ?? and you wondered what the errors wereI think it's funny because, from my perspective it is.folks who wanted to do their own work have been mis-led by wrong information in different books, that are considered by some to be the apex of DIY electrical information, from the same publisher.it wouldn't be funny if it was just one book.......
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See 114312.6 for what is wrong. Has to do w/ wiring a GFCI.
In the FWIW dept - I have independently verified that 10% of the GFCI's in motel baths are wired backwards. I found out by accident once, then started checking them out every time I stayed in one. I was appalled at the results of my survey.
Don
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
you say that Taunton is going to spend $$$$$ to correct that problem in two different books
when the wiring diagrams and instructions come inside every single GFI sold ?and It's cool that you take the things apart in motels but what do you mean by wired backwards ?.
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Didn't say they were going to correct the mess. Don't know what they are going to do.Didn't tear motels apart - just tested the GFCI by pushing the "Test" button. GFCI still worked, telling me it was wired backwards.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
FWIW the new GFCI's have protection against that.When the GFCI is tripped internal receptacle pins are disconnected from the load terminals. So if it is wired backwards, with power on the load terminals, then the receptacle slots are dead.IIRC this started in July, 07.It also requires the GFCI have an end of life indication. That can be done if the self-test does not test.There where also some changes in a earlier (I think in 01 or 03) revisions. Don't know if all brands had implimented this the same or not.But I have experimented with one of the 01 versions.That brand had all of the requirement current features except that the receptacle was connected directly to the load terminals.Those versions come tripped. And they require power to reset. And they will trip with the test button mechanically. They don't need power. Then real self-test is if it will reset.If that version is wired backwards they will never reset, but with the receptacle connected directly to the load terminals the receptacles are hot.Earlier versions the test button simulated a GFCI fault with an internal resistor. They would not trip without power. And the reset was just a mechancial function..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
It seems to me that, when publishing a book on a subject that is inherently life-threatening, you would want some serious proof reading before going to press. If I were the publisher I would have had at least three licensed sparkys do said proofing.
nailed it.!.
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Bill: My experience was w/ the old variety - like early 90's.These changes make sense.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
This is funny. I have the book and I noticed right off the bat they have Ohm's law written E=I/R heh, heh. It's supposed to be I=E/R which is written correctly on subsequent pages. I'll have to check the wiring diagrams.
for this discussion, use whatever formula you want, or make up your ownI=E=(mc X the white wire) ± ∞.
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I do have the first printing however so maybe the errors in the wiring diagrams didn't show up in that one.
Hi Maddog - I'm not sure why you think that it's "hilarious" that Taunton had to recall this electrical book. It wasn't a huge collection of errors that prompted the recall, it was just one: the swapping of two labels on a GFI drawing. I'm sure that even professional electricians such as yourself make mistakes from time to time.
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
I make mistakes from time to time, but we use peer checking..... my partner looks at my work and I look at his before we say we're done,and then more eyes look at it before things get turned on, sometimes a gross error is found like running a conduit into the wrong panel, and sometimes things get mis-labeled,but there is more than one set of eyes looking at any particular task,
golly, even turning things OFF can be complicated and time consuming.but I would never give an apprentice bad guidance or give them the wrong info ....... If I don't know something, I get someone who does, but 99% of apprentices just don't ask complicated questions.a reference book for novices should be error free IMO unless the book is a textbook in a classroom where errata sheets or instructors can make the corrections...... because most folks will always take the easy route, but again, just about every one on this site will tell you that wiring a house is no big deal ,that they don't need to hire someone, just buy a book but it is funny how the error appeared only in the 3rd edition and the "expert" book at the same time. and no one fixed it even after being made aware of it.
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but it is funny how the error appeared only in the 3rd edition and the "expert" book at the same time. and no one fixed it even after being made aware of it
I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion...as soon as we were made aware of the problem, it was fixed.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
I drew that conclusion from some of the posts hereI don't know if there is a legal hindrance, but can you say how many books were returned.
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Truthfully, I actually don't know how many...books are separate from magazines, which is what I work on.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
I was just curious,
I would imagine a recall is about as effective as the town zoning board putting a hearing notice in the classifieds, only folks that buy the paper know about it, but the notice was made public.
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I'm not sure how they go about getting in touch with the people who already bought the book - but it is also being pulled from the shelves to prevent further sales. Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
what happens to the "bad" books ?.
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No idea!Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
They aren't getting a hold of the people that bought the book I'm a subscriber to FHB and a member of this sight and I have yet to see an announcement from Taunton .I found out about the recall on another sight
There have been at least two other threads here that pertain to this within the last 45 days.I purchased my copy at Barnes & Noble. How would Taunton reasonably be expected to contact me?
Recall notice, complete with photos of front covers of the books was on the home page of Taunton for weeks - at the very top, right hand side of page. May still be there - not sure.
Announcement directed you to the "official" notice of voluntary recall with Consumer Product Safety something-or-other --- web address ended in .gov.
I confirmed I owned one of the recalled books; took book and recall notice back to big-box where I bought it, and they gladly complied with the government suggested "remedy" - "return to point of purchase for a full refund".
I suspect this remedy was not cheap for Taunton -- don't know what else Taunton could do for the consumer........
Jim
Edit: I logged off, then back on -- "Important Safety Notice" with the two book covers is still on the Taunton home page as of 1918 EST, 19JANUARY2009.
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Edited 1/19/2009 7:19 pm ET by JTC1
"don't know what else Taunton could do for the consumer."
Hmm They could have posted
the warning on this sight, they could email their subscribers, They could point out what the errors are
It's far easier to be critical than correct.
True
Not to rock the boat but your "god complex" just shows your arrogance and I pity the ones that work with you. Let me guess your from a unionized company. We all make mistake it is part of the program, wether your a journeyman plumber, carpenter, tin basher or the all might electrician! If you think its a joke maybe you don't fully grasp the ramifications of something wired wrong.
you don't fully grasp the ramifications of something wired wrong.
unfortunately I do !.
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If I can step in here for a second...
When you say you think it's "funny", you're obviously using the word in a sardonic sense, kind of black humor to laugh at life's tragedies rather than be overwhelmed by them.
Not that you don't care if someone gets hurt, but that the notion of a DIY'er being emboldened to do their own wiring because of a book is as "laughable" as someone attempting DIY heart surgery based on a book.
The notion of DIY electrical is potentially a sick joke, in other words.
Which I pretty much agree with. The Simpsons gets lots of dark laughs in a similar vein.
Then, on the flip side, I own the book in question, and use it to get a general idea of what's going to be done on the jobs I GC. I know better than to do the work myself, but I do find Cauldwell's book to be a very useful reference. So, I wouldn't trash the book either.
Maybe it should come with a disclaimer. Trust, but verify, or something like that. Or, "this s--t can kill you". Or, "this book is very useful, as long as you know it's not."
k
Justin, if an incorrect diagram/caption slipped through in this instance, the same might have occurred in other Taunton books that provide electrical information.
For instance, in the 1992 "Renovating Old Houses", by George Nash, The Electrical System chapter is very useful. The diagrams are also very useful. I believe Renovating Old Houses might now be in it's 3rd edition.
Perhaps Taunton should double-check the electrical portions of these books, in all editions. Please forward my suggestion to your Taunton books colleagues
Might you be speaking of the threeway switch installation diagrams in that book?
94969.19 In the beginning there was Breaktime...
94969.1 Photo Gallery Table of Contents
yes !
Those three pages of diagrams are very useful and adaptable.
I found the book as a whole to be extremely well done and researched. The steam heating system diagrams are super; I showed them to a licensed steamfitter who was impressed.
Which edition have you got?
Edited 1/21/2009 3:10 am ET by Pierre1
Not sure the edition. Bought it many moons back. Hardbound with the before and after photos on the cover of the old house corner with eave.
Love that book. Was my house bible for years.
Cracks me up looking at that pic of George Nash and his worker that had just finished mixing a bunch of concrete with shovels and a tarp.
94969.19 In the beginning there was Breaktime...
94969.1 Photo Gallery Table of Contents
aha, you get a milk bone. and thanks for giving me a seldom used word of the day,
it will wear well with my ingrained sarcasm :)I agree with you, all reference books of that nature should be used with caution, as there are myriad ways to screw something up. one of the caveats in the NEC is that work should be done by a "qualified person" and goes on to define what that is... something that the typical HO is not, since they buy books like these and sometimes come in here and rambling on about the code this and the code that
but some areas allow folks to do their own work, and that's fine, I don't care, it's not my house, so I'll put my hard hat back on and wait for more shellingI snapped this picture ! it's about 8 YO now, you may have even seen it here, but it is a fantastic example of how even highly trained people with years of experience make mistakes. it is 5Kv gear that became junk in about 30 seconds it was also a one in a million chance that I would be standing about 30' away when the explosions started the cables that were accidently energized to start the fault are in the cable tray to the left of that little transformer,
sorry about the size, but the smallest picture is one of the transformer that fed that equipment the ladder gives it some scalenice huh ?.
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here ya go.
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D'oh!
;)
You know, this back and forth comes up pretty often between relatively inexperienced folks and seasoned pros.
The DIY'ers (for simplification) seem a little defensive, they know they don't know everything, but are hoping for help, and maybe a little respect for at least trying, getting their hands dirty. When a pro is dissmisive or condescending, they feel betrayed in a way.
The Veterans (for simplification) often blast them with some sarcasm. My guess is this is usually based on a real concern that the DIY'er is going to end up with an unattractive or unsafe final product, coupled with a feeling like all their training and years of experience are being devalued/insulted. Plus some stress over losing paying work to an incompetent person.
I worked for one client who liked to say "It's not rocket science," all the time. Man did I hate that dude.
I'm kind of in the middle- I'm pretty good at most things, but also know enough to be amazed by the truly great craftsmen around. Like, I can sweat copper just fine; "It's not rocket science", but I know when I see a pro do it what that means.
I think that basic tension will always exist. I myself add to both sides at different times...
k
This push-pull you speak of certainly can make for interesting dynamics when one is called into a home by the wife to fix or finish the husband's work. ;-)
Ha! I just finished a retaining wall/ patio job with that exact dynamic.
The husband is excited to do a bunch of stone work (he already did some truly pathetic plantings) above and beyond my beautiful curving wall. The wife is distressed.
Gotta get some pics of my wall before he f's everything up...
I can laugh about it, b/c I'm 95% sure they'll have me back to do it right in the summer!
k
plus, unlike with electrical, he can't easily kill himself or others by trashing his hillside.
Edited 1/21/2009 1:53 pm ET by KFC
couldn't agree more !!.
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"I worked for one client who liked to say "It's not rocket science," all the time."I use that expression from time to time. Once I was working on a Habitat for Humanity site along side a nice old guy. We were putting together ABS waste lines and someone looked down at us in the trench and said, "are you sure you guys're qualified for that work?" I said, "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to do this." and the guy working with me just stared at me hard for about a minute. You guessed it. It turned out that he was a retired rocket scientist from JPL! :)BruceT
The thing is, of course "it's not rocket science". Anyone can learn to sweat pipe, for instance, in about a half an hour.
But they won't be able to do it quickly, reliably and consistently.
When I watch an old pro sweating pipe, efficiently and cleanly, not only do I know that we won't have any problems, but I actually find beauty in the work in a way that I don't quite in my own.
I haven't had any real leak issues, so I believe I'm competent, but I look at some of the craftsmanship around me, and I can see that part of that guy's soul is in that fitting. To do work like that, you have to have cared about your work for a long, long time.
If you look at it right, a large part of his life is in that fitting, even if it only took a minute to do. If a client looks at it and says "135 bucks an hour? I could have done that! It's not rocket science!" I feel like a) saying "no, you couldn't" and b) hitting them upside the head with my hart framer... It's like dismissing a huge portion of someone's life as unimportant.
You know how sometimes you open up a circuit panel and see clarity and quality, and you just get a good feeling? Kind of like religion?
And other times, you look at a panel and go "Oh dear lord..." and get a feeling of dread for everything you're going to discover when you open the walls up?
k
"You know how sometimes you open up a circuit panel and see clarity and quality, and you just get a good feeling?"Reminds me of the highest praise from my father; "You did a workman like job there".BruceT
I have the opposite problem.I do mostly handyman work. Minor repair and replacement type of stuff.I often explain why I am picking a product. Or why the old one failed and how this will be better. Or what the limitations are without doing a major remodel.So they think that I am an expert on everything..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I wonder if you would feel so smug and happy if you had been taught to do something wrong at whatever trade school or such that you went to?
Or, if the manufacturer provided incorrect tech data sheet that could lead to a pro doing it wrong, would you still be so superior?
Must be a slow week when this provides such amusement and reason to feel so superior.
I'm a professional in another field, and I don't feel the need to act so superior to those who don't have my qualifications. The world is a big place, there's room for all.
can't you find something else to call me other than smug, that one is getting a little worn out.
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"don't know what else Taunton could do for the consumer."Hmm They could have postedthe warning on this sight,
Please see and read my OP - then follow the easy directions to the home page of this site as directed in my post - there you will find the warning / announcement of recall, and a link to the official notice of recall. Said notice has been there for weeks. In other words - "They did - long time ago!"
That would be Taunton.com - also the publisher of the books in question.
they could email their subscribers,
I am a subscriber to FHB and I do not recall providing my e-mail address as a part of the subscription.
They could point out what the errors are
Why would they do that? They have voluntarily recalled the books and offered a full refund to the consumer. Leaving the books on the shelves and issueing a correction of sorts does not make sense from a potential liability standpoint - better to pull the product from circulation.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I couldn't find the warning on the FHB homepage I guess I don't see so good.I realize it is on Tauntons homepage as you pointed out. I don't have occasion to go there.
I was curious what the errors were because of work that has already been performed
They have my email
I'll call them and ask about the specific errors
The specific error was discussed here..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Justin,
As a sometime DIY I appreciate that Taunton is stepping up to the plate and going to great expense to recall this book. You are taking responsibility and remaining a trustworthy name. I think more of your company for this, especially since I am aware of what a difficult time this is for publications with loss of ad revenue over the last several years.
I thought I had a pretty twisted sense of humor, but I don't see the funny in this.