Teaching the wife to miter. No laughing!
I know, I know, why on earth would I teach the wife to miter anything? Because, if I teach her right then she can do the work and I can focus on something else. You see, once all that dang drywall in the basement is complete (and painted), I am going to install trim in every room. This includes floor and crown everywhere, and chair molding in 1-2 rooms.
Now, since she’s been trying to get me to live up to the promise of making her some picture frames, I thought I’d teach her the rough art of trimming out some rooms (I call this practice), and then she could ‘experiment on making some picture frames. Evil? I say I’ve got a plan! Anyway, these are all rectangular boxes with few surprised.
When the time comes, though, I’ll need to install a more appropriate blade into the miter saw, which is a DeWalt DW708 slider. How many teeth should I go with? Someone once recommended something like 92 (or 96) for a 12″ blade.
Replies
Don't want to recommend a blade for the saw , but will comment on the wife workin' with ya. It's a great idea!
If I am willing to take the time to properly teach my wife how to do a job on our house, the payoff is immense. Now, remember, you have to teach her. Otherwise someone could get hurt and things will look like crap. Teaching ain't easy or fast. But it is a great long term investment.
She will have a sense of "ownership" she never had before.
Now if you just toss her some trim and say "nail it" you are both screwed.
And on top of everything else, I just happen to like working with my wife!
If you do teach her, make sure you teach her safety first. You don't want to be hauling your Wife along with a couple of severed fingers to the ER.
But my suggestion would be to have someone ELSE teach you Wife. I know I'm a bit cynnical and jaded from dealing with my own Wife, but - I can't teach her anything, and we can't work together.
If I try to show her how to do something, she says I'm talking down to her and trying to make her feel stupid.
But if I DON'T show her how to do something, I'm trying to make things harder for her. I can't win.
.
As for saw blades - The number of teeth isn't as important as the design of the blade. Freud has some really nice blades for miter saws called their "ultimate cutoff" blades. The make great cuts, and I highly recommend them.
years ago Cathy wanted to learn to ride a motorcycle.
At the time ... I had a stroker motor Harly Sportster ... way too much first gear for a beginner ... so we got her a little Honda.
Spent a coupla weekends in the parking lot of our apartment complex ... never got far. Then ... "we" signed up for a beginners rider course thru the local community college.
I was signed up as she didn't want to go alone.
So ... I'm there ... watching ... and learning a bit myself ....
But I'd watch as the instructor said ... "Do This" ...
and she'd do it.
I'd yell over ... "That's exactly what I told U to do" ...
Drove me nuts!
Somehow my version of "release the clutch slowly" ...
was a different and foreign language to the instructor saying "release the clutch slowly" ....
Got to be comical ... told her ... I can teach the rest of the world to ride ... because of one little detail ... They actually listen when I speak!
Or as my good buddy Joe says ..." All day long people call me with their problems and all day log I got good ideas ... But I come home ... and suddenly I'm a freaking idiot!"
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
"That's exactly what I told U to do"
That's why I suggested he have SOMEONE ELSE teach his Wife how to do it.
There's just something about the Husband/Wife dynamic that doesn't allow them to teach each other stuff. (Except in rare cases)
How do you get off a non-stop flight?
got the wife an mp3 player for xmas this year ...
as she opened it ... I said ... "here, let me see it" ...
she hands it over.
I say ... "see how my hands are touching the plastic wrapping and not yet touching the mp3 player itself ... that's as close to it as I ever want to get"
she started laughing and knew immediately what I meant.
I followed ... "much unlike the digital camera that I have to re-explain how to download pictures each and every time U take a picture ... I have no farther plans to use THIS machine" ...
"hopefully ... they've thot ahead and included instructions printed on some form of paper ... and neatly folded it up so it fits inside the packaging .... "
"if not ... yer screwed!"
"as I don't know how an mp3 players works ... don't care how an mp3 player works ... and have no plans to learn how an mp3 player works so I can explain it to you time and time again ..."
"and again" ...
"and again" ...
at that point ... I got hit.
But it was worth making the point!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
that's why i start most lessons with my ex-wife and people who aren't my kids by saying "stupid and ignorant are two different things, and we are all ignorant, just on different things. i'm going to treat you like you are ignorant on this, so that i can make sure that you won't hurt yourself." that usually pisses them off, but it makes it appear that my heart is in the right place.
Amen.
I shoot trap on a competitive basis and have for years.
Before we had any kids, my wife decided she would like to learn to shoot. I loaded some very light target loads and took her to the local trap range.
I turned her over to an NRA certified instructor, she learned the rudiments (and none of my bad habits) in an afternoon, got progressively better with subsequent visits. The next birthday I gave her a Remington 1187 (left hand model). Shortened the stock a bit, a got the fluffiest recoil pad I could find for her.
She shot steadily until she was 6 months pregnant with our daughter (doc said time to stop). Got to where she was breaking 88 / 100 on a good day and having a great time - figured out that the average person who shoots for fun is not some nut who is "waiting to go off". After baby was born she has never shot again - seems to have lost interest - maybe some day.
Moral: Let some one else teach the wife if possible. Once she gets good - don't get her pregnant and have her lose interest!
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
EXACTLY!I've just had a guy in to teach her how to use the PC. Same deal
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If I try to show her how to do something, she says I'm talking down to her and trying to make her feel stupid.
But if I DON'T show her how to do something, I'm trying to make things harder for her. I can't win.
Damn BossHog, you must be married to my wife. It's the same story here.
Billy
He's evidently a polygamist, too, since my wife does exactly the same thing. I tried to teach her to ski once...did<!---->Cure Diabetes - Death Valley 2006!<!---->
don't worry about blades - first have her take her top off - -
What's that gonna get trimmed?
Joe H
Yeah!
Then you stand a good chance of losing your fingers.
"Course, getting a little trim is good too.
Edited 12/28/2005 11:26 am ET by RalphWicklund
"Then you stand a good chance of losing your fingers."all men should know that power tools and nudity don't mix (i'm typing this with my legs crossed right now)
whatever you do, make sure you tell her not to leave any of those little cut-off pieces lying in the blade path.
women don't dig missiles the way men do.
carpenter in transition
Ah...bringing back memories of siding our house. 1/3 of the way down one side we began having a rip-roaring fight about something...perhaps he'd asked me to go topless?...and a standoff ensued. From up on the ladder, "Cut!" From the ground below, "Neverrrrr!" In the meantime, paying work called and winter crept in. The house remained partially sided for a full 6 months. :-)
However many teeth you get, make sure it's the pretty red or yellow one.
Trust me
LOL
Wow, I see there is more than one reply. Ok, some background on the little women. I met my wife in college. I was working on my bachelor degree (Physics) and she was finishing up her PhD (Chemistry). I've tutored probably mo less than 300 students in my time, learned a great deal of approaches for the given tutor subjects (physics, chemistry, math, photography, etc.) in those +300 people as no one is the same.
One of the things the wife and I found attractive in each other is the willingness and ability to teach each other in terms we can understand, and are not bound by notions of being talked down to. And while I have taught students in college, my wife currently is a Chemistry teacher at one the the local colleges. Its not having to worry about whether or not I have patience with her, whether she thinks she is being talked down to, but just that for some odd reason she has a fear of power tools.
My bad taught me to have a healthy respect for electricity and power tools. Its about the only thing he taught me, but every major injury I've suffered was either from falling off of cliffs or from jumping out of airplanes or running down a street for exercise. Haha. I have respect for my own digits, and even more for someone else's that I would be in charge with. Its just getting her to step up to the plate and face the fear.
Strangely enough, while she may have reservations of the power tools she has none about nor fears in using dangerous chemicals and substances in her teaching, or her previous research. I can say I have been in some laboratories where there are things in triple sealed-jars, each with skull & crossbones on them and could kill within seconds of skin contact. She knows what one I am talking about, and yet she doesn't fear it--and yet has that healthy respect for it.
Maybe one of her brothers tortured her in her youth.
A little fear of power tools isn't a bad thing. Hopefully that will make her a little more cautious.Maybe doing something simple would be a good way of helping her get more comfortable with the saw. Like building a square box by mitering some scrap 1X4s. Anything to get her making some cuts.If you guys can actually teach each other like you say you can, that should be enough to get her started.
A conscience is what hurts when all your other parts feel so good.
I prefer to see respect for what power tools can do (the things you do not want them to do) rather than fear.
One of the first large jobs DW and I did we were putting ceiling joists between some post and beam structure and I was calling out measurements and she was crowning and measuring and cutting them on the DeW705 and passing them up to me. A real trooper and keeper! Have not put her in the trim cutting mode yet. We work with mostly old non-square buildings and do it myself.
Bob
Nuke -
My other half has been an office worker all her life, and she had no experience with construction of any kind.
A couple years ago, I needed a new countertop and decided on 12" porcelain tile. I asked her to do the cuts, cause everything seemed to need cutting. At first, she outright refused. I showed her how to do it, with a nice big piece a 6" cut. She did one, then another, and on it went. By the end of the day, she was as good as any of the laborers I've worked with. Then she went into work bragging about it! Go figure.
I haven't gotten her to work on the mitresaw yet. We've had our share of arguments about the talking down concept. Her favorite is when I get "that tone" in my voice. I swear she imagines it. Sometimes you just need to take a breath and a walk. Sounds like you've got a pretty good student though. Good luck.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
"Her favorite is when I get "that tone" in my voice. I swear she imagines it."last night, after getting home from work:
DW: (talking about something)
me: o.k.
DW: What's that supposed to mean? I'm not finished yet.
me: But you complain when i don't say anything that i'm not listening.
DW: But you don't say 'o.k.' That means you're done listening. And I'm not done talking.
me: What should i say?
DW: I don't know, but not 'o.k.'.
me: all right.
DW: (starts talking again, so what does she start with?) "O.K., ..."bwubwubwubwubwubwubwu (sound of finger moving rapidly over lips)
You guys are all making me want to run out and get married.
jt8
"Talent is God given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful." -- John R. Wooden
I'm amazed that this thread has gotten this far without this being said: you should be teaching your wife to cope, not to miter. That has two benefits: 1) the trim will look better. 2) She does it by hand, not by power tools.
People worked wood for millenia before the advent of power tools. If your wife doesn't want to work with them, maybe she knows something about herself that you don't. Let her do things the old fashioned way and then if she decides she wants to work a little faster she can make the decision to use power tools. If you insist on mitering your trim, buy an inexpensive miter box and a good saw and let her have at it.
During one of our remodeling projects, DW was apparently not pleased with the fact that I wasn't getting the trim done. So she wanted me to teach her.
Made time one night and went to the shop. Expalnations and demonstrations on miter saw and table saw. couple of practice cuts, then went home.
I think the tools either scared her or she decided it wasn't that much fun. Anyway, she never asked again and the trim was eventually done by me.
Bowz
I once worked with our next door neighbor in building a common fence...a rather elaborate one. She is an architect, but had never used power tools. I showed her how to use the 10" miter saw, power hand saw, jig saw and drills. Make a long story short, I subtly suggested she let me work the power tools. Not that she's slow or a poor learner...she's mentally very sharp. But there was something about how she moved around the tools that told me she really couldn't sense where the blade was relative to what she was doing...and I could just sense that she was going to push too hard, get too close or get herself into a dangerous situation. Maybe I'm being overly cautious or just a worry-wart...but the thought of seeing bright red blood flowing just didn't quite do it for me.
Not to try to sound like Lawrence Summers (President of Harvard University), but I wonder if there's a difference between men and women when it comes to using power tools?
BruceM
I think Aimless has a good point about teaching her coping and hand tools, before miter cuts and use of power tools.
But eventually, I think you're gonna progess to those power tools. So....
IMHO, the biggest difference between men and women and power tools is the "late to the dance" and lack of early (age) familiarity "most" women have with them.
If she has fear of using power tools - it's probably rooted in the basic: "fear of the unknown" coupled with mental knowledge and acceptance that these things can cause bodily harm.
I've not seen anyone suggest something that's long been helpful to me and many of the women I've helped familiarize with BASIC power tools.
Start out familiarizing the lady with the power tool itself by having it UNPLUGGED (or battery OUT) and explaining its pieces and parts. What does what. What will slide, what, if you engage it, will reverse the blade direction, etc etc etc. I.E. take the mystery outta the thing.
Then - and you guys typically are SO used to the heft of any particular tool you don't even realize that a gal's first introduction to a power tool is typically the first time she's finding out how much it weighs and starts to mentally figure out that safely maneuvering it - is gonna take a bit more than she'd originally envisioned or perchance, even thought about. (If you carefully watch a gal's body language at this very point when she first begins to seriously handle the power tool - you'll see this demonstrated time and time again. Leastwise, that's my experience.)
So take her calmly thru the components of the item, discuss the physics of "if it catches during the cut - you're gonna get kickback and you have to maintain your grip - etc" kinda information. (Something you're clearly qualified to do with ease!) Have her hold and "dry run" through the physical stance she'll utilize, the tool - practicing the gripping, maneuvering and control aspects. This will help get her past that disconcerting realization that I wrote about in the paragraph above.
THEN ya turn the puppy on and demonstrate on most basic piece, a cut. Then let her mimic that cut herself, for real.
Acknowledge success enthusiastically! Then have her "Repeat" the same cuts until she is comfortable with what she's doing and how it feels and it becomes her own "I CAN do this" paradigm.
Then y'all can progress readily to additional cutting techniques as the neophyte is now itching to learn more...and feels capable of learning more.
Just my 2 cents. DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
O.K., you had some useful input there. Good to have a woman's perspective.What can you tell us about the problem I brought up - Where the woman thinks you're talking down to them when you try to teach them something, but thinks you're trying to make them look stupid if you DON'T try to teach them?
We can see the stars but still not see the light. [Eagles]
Well BH, all I can do is share my opinions, perceptions, knowledge of the few things I do know...have observed along the way.
For e.g.
When a DH and DW approach an issue or task together and do so with TLT (time/love/tenderness), there's little they won't jointly accomplish.
On the other hand, when they approach the same room with negative emotional baggage from numerous other unresolved issues in their lives...then little they attempt to do "together" is going to go smoothly.
At the very least - whether is a DH and DW situation, or a coupla pals, or even just acquaintances who don't even really LIKE each other personally, there has to be a joint willingness to approach the mentoring experience as "teacher" & "pupil", and a sincere respect for each other's role - and joint desire for reaching the goal: the transference of the knowledge.DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
"When a DH and DW approach an issue or task together and do so with TLT (time/love/tenderness), there's little they won't jointly accomplish."
I'm not sure I believe it's that simple. DW and I certainly have some "baggage" that prevents us from working together.
But I've heard more or less the same thing from so many guys I have a hard time believing they ALL have the same "baggage" issues to deal with.
But - I wanted your perspective, and you gave it to me. So I guess I shouldn't bitch about it, huh???
(-:
Nobody can be uncheered with a balloon. [Winnie the Pooh]
Boss
But I've heard more or less the same thing from so many guys I have a hard time believing they ALL have the same "baggage" issues to deal with.
I have never met a couple that doesn't have some "baggage" and "issues" to deal with. Some more than others, but none are exempt.
Bowz
"...but none are exempt."
So true. It becomes a matter of whether it (whatever baggage and issues exist) gets in the way...or not.
When my XDH was teaching me how to do things when we were building our own house in SC; he was clearly conflicted about it.
E.G. He'd teach me how to do something. I'd get really good at it and learn quickly. Then I'd ask - what if we did it THIS way instead...?...cause look, it's faster blah blah. And sometimes I'd hear/see him look surprised that there was a better way and unhappy that I had discerned it.
Once, when I asked about an alternate technique than that which he'd taught me but I'd seen him DO...he said "I've been doing this for 20 years! I'm not going to teach you every trick I know!" I was rather shocked by that statement and quietly said "But (name)...I'm not your competition, I'm your wife."
Bottom line, there can be a lot of dynamics that come into play when husband and wife work on things together.DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
well, glad I could contribute -
I like Aimless's comment about learning to cope, altho ya gotta make a miter cut as the first stepof the process...
and one other thing that's not been mentioned that may apply is the question of relative strength - generally males are signifigantly stronger physically than females, a factor in issues of control that depend on strength - you're talking about a 12" saw, and even tho the action may be smooth, it has a lot of inertia and large range of motion that DW may find difficult to 'manhandle' in addition to the learning curve of the mechanics of the thing -
a friend of mine has an 8" Hitachi that is adequate for most jobs - it's a lot less intimidating and requires less physical strength to operate -
something to consider -
"there's enough for everyone"
I'm not gonna get into what you should teach your wife- that's between you and her and your marriage counseler.
but I recommend the red Freud for slide compound saws. I think its got 72 teeth with a 5 degree negative hook, to keep it from pulling through.
I put one on my Bosch slide and have been happy with the results.
I used to help my wife with her taxes. (She's self-employed.) I never wanted to, but she begged me. Well, I did try once or twice, but you can imagine where this story goes...
Man, talk about a sidetracked thread! I run a Forrest Chopmaster on my DW708. Just yer basic mirror-finish crosscut. Oh yea, 80 teeth. I've heard the Freuds are good too, but never had a reason to try 'em.
Freud Diablo 80 tooth, or you can get away with 60 tooth. The Dewalt blade 80 tooth is fine too. They're both at HD.
If your standards match, then I think it's a great idea for spouses to teach eachother things that they know. I mean, isn't that part of marriage?
On the other hand, there's my situation where my wife would say, "Oh for heavens sake....it's good enough, I just want to get it done."
"No", says I, and let the games begin.