Hi All,
I have a basic electrical understanding. One thing I’ve noted is one cannot just terminate a circuit in a wall. Even a J-box is not code
With this in mind here’s a project I’ve been asked to do. Kitchen lighting recessed in a soffit. The Ho wants to make the ceiling even and add can lights…eventually. They have asked me to seal up the recess and float the ceiling. In the next few months they will decide on the can lights. The circuit would eventually be used for the can lights so I need a way to safely terminate them in the now sealed soffit with no access. Of course access will be available but a hole will be cut.
Ya know the more I think of it it sounds like a can of worms. I’m betting there’s no safe per cade way to do this other than the right way ie; add the can lights now.
But still I run into this from time to time. A few years ago I had an archaic circuit that ran an underlayment heater. Thermostats broken/no replacements, heater wires themselves inaccesable. I removed the thermostats and put wire nuts on the ends of the wires and shoved them in a j-box and sealed the wall. I then removed the breaker switch and pulled the wires out of the box and left a detailed note of what had been done. But they are still there.
How does one terminate an inaccesable circuit in a wall? Do you have to pull the wire? Can I just leave a blank access panel over the spot since as I understand a jbox must be accesable.
Thanks,
W
Replies
Can I just leave a blank access panel over the spot since as I understand a jbox must be accesable
That's what code demands.
SamT
Thanks,
How about the situation where I disconnected the circuit from the service and just sealed up the dead wires in the wall? Was that ok since it's no longer a cicuit? I was never comfortable with that solution but the HO demanded the walls be sealed. I then insisted we disconnect the circuit and the HO was happy with that.
W
Tell the HO you MUST leave the J-box accessible.
In the soffit, mount an octagonal j-box in the same position as one of the future cans and terminate your wires in that (nutted). Cover that with the thin, round box cover used when a ceiling fixture is abandoned. This cover is so thin, that when painted over practically disappears.
When it's time to put in the cans, remove the j-box and run those wires into the j-box of the can and from there to the other cans.
An accessible junction box is required but don't fret. You can often pull the cable into an accessible area you would rather have a box and cover in. Attics, crawl spaces, closets and the opposite side of a wall are all fine.
Not uncommon for a cable terminated in a formal dining room can be simply cut into the other side of the wall. In a bedroom, particularly a kids, a blank plate is not an issue.
In all but the closet, and a few circuit restrictions, you can install a receptacle to make the visually neutral blank plate into an asset.
I'm not understanding why U can't just run the dead wire ...
and leave enough of a slack loop at each proposed light location ...
with the far end ending at where the last light will be ...
and the near end ending in the wall cavity .. again with enough slack ... close to the power source ....
all to be pulled and connected later by the electrician?
nothing's connected ... just stapled ... but lose wire.
it's done all the time.
when the time comes .... cut in a coupla remodeling cans ... work from below ...
and either pull the wire into the extsiting box or pop the J box and wire in a new one.
Jeff
Why not just run conduit from the switch location to the future light location and leave the conduit empty till the HO decide on the lights?? Or is thin wall not used in your locale??
conduit isn't a code requirement ...
which simplifies the concept of just leaving a nice loop at each light guestimate.
Jeff
I think he's talking about a circuit that's already hot because part of it is being used for lighting elsewhere in the house, but in that situation you could leave the leg going to the future lights disconnected at both ends, even if one end is already pulled into a switch box or a ceiling fixture box.... just don't connect it there either.
But that makes me think, if you leave a wire like that with no explanation, someone else in the future may accidentally connect it without knowing. Best you could probably do is write on the romex jacket but if you don't strip that it will barely fit in the box.
Edited 11/6/2004 9:17 am ET by davidmeiland
The "generally accepted" technique for handling an abandoned cable is to cut the wires short AT BOTH ENDS, expel from any "live" box, and tag the wire "abandoned". It's a good idea, where possible, to also tag the wire as to where the other end is. AFAIK, the NEC does not address this issue.
In the plant where I work, though, they've adopted a policy of always removing abandoned cable, simply because otherwise the clutter builds up too quickly. Some older buildings here are probably held together by the wiring.
>> The Ho wants to make the ceiling even and add can lights...eventually. <<
Aside from the fact that most of us here are HOs, why is it that so many times HO is synonomous with DA!!!
Why not set this box and make the run after the electrical inspection? Terminate it in one of the safe ways suggested here, everyones happy and no hoop jumpin.
cheaters never prosper
Problem is, they do. Just look at what happened the other day.
My question remains, is it legal to install wire into a box but not terminate it? He could install the wire he wants, leave it buried in the ceiling at the lamp end, and then simply not heat it up at the switch end, until he has the lights installed later.
There's no cheating to it. The home owner wants to be able to do something in the future. To do it requires a lot of un-necessary hoop jumping. Get the job done in a safe acceptable way, satisfy your customer and move on.
You have to be able to evaluate what's important, safe and doable and get it done, I don't know about you but I don't have time to march in place and hold up a dollar for a dime.Never serious, but always right.