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"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
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I'm a Tums man myself.
And aspirin, lots and lots of aspirin. The big 500 mg kind.
*
Anyone else get Monday, all day anxiety attacks?(and its not like I'm not working Saturday and Sunday). Where IS that stream Jack is going on about?
*
. . .paying the guy that works for you more than you're making.
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Jed
. . . been there, done that. . . and it sucks
b bigtime!!!
*next quarter will be different.
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Joseph FuscoView Image
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paying the irs more than what im making so they can squander my money by paying others to sit on the creek bank and fish is what really sucks
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If you keep it real small scale like I do, it is an absolutely elemental existence. If I work today, I can eat tonight, etc. If I work all week, I can make the truck payment. If I work all month, I can screw around for a few days and maybe my old lady won't find out.
*lonecat,Exactly...We all gots tah live within our means and when we learn to live way inside of that and build up some reserves, then we feel pretty good....lastly is to break totally free from the whole rat race and dump it all...utilities, taxes and all the supposed basics all think they can't live without....Just a mountain and a stream... and a dream,J
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Gentlemen;
My Father is very rich, and he has promised to meet all of my needs, I hold Him to His Word, work
and live by faith as he meets all my needs, never too early, never late, but always on time.
Im blessed;
brisketbean
*
Jack
. . . jus wonderin??? Did yer ol lady toss you out???
-P
*Toss every five years (many tosses!)...oh what a wonderful thing...The problem is the next one comes right along so quickly...Freely tossing on the mountain near the stream,J
*JackFreely tossing. . . ??? wives??. . . dwarves?. . .. yer cookies???-P
*Brisket is definitely on the right path, but he left out the part where He makes you sweat a little. He gives you nothing, provides you everything.
*And now i For something completely different. . . b Please!!!
*Rich, need a good antiacid as that was a major reason for being awake.Adrian, working Saturday and Sunday is suppose to make Monday feel like just another day. Doesn't work for me either.Jed, am I suppose to make more than guys I hire? They think I'm rich, I think I wish I had their paychecks.rebel357, If headaches were deductable,lonecat, Just Say No!
*Less really is more, except when it comes to money. As far as truck payments go, read Blue's thread. I thought I was cheap; but, Blue's truck blows me away. Even if it weren't paid for, the payemtns couldn't have amounted to more than a six pack a month.Dennis
*What happened to the other 356 rebels?
*Not to sound like Dear Abby, but if your stomach is a regular problem talk to your doctor. New drugs such as Prilosec are astonishingly effective (and, of course, expensive). But you might have something more serious going on. Antacid just masks the symptom.
*I love it when people tell me how lucky I am to be self employed. Apparently, they don't think I have a boss, what are the clients then? They also think it is great that when the the weather stinks I get to stay home and hang out. I guess they think worrying about not making any cash for the day is great fun. Ostensibly Motionless,KMH
*Self-employed, ahhh, a very good way to get to the stream. It's hard, but it sure beats hatin' the boss. BB
*Jd, if you have to work saturday and sunday, just to be poor, give it up!You must be remodeling, and trying to keep th guys working.Figure out what they really are costing you, and raise your prices to cover all the expenses, and pay yourself the same as you would the boys.If the market won't pay the amount that you need, find a different product.don't worry, be happy!Blue
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Most. if not all, of the above is true. Sleepless nights, poor pay, etc.etc. But if we hate all of this, it begs the question, why not get out of it. I figure pride or some other stupid emotion keeps us fools in this self employment game. Lucky us...as our friends say...."Fell into a barrel of shit and came out smelling like a rose" Let THEM try self employment eh?
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One of the hardest decisions that I ever made was to quit contracting. When you have put so much into it, you don't want to admit failure, even if you are killing yourself, failing!
After a while, you can look back and see what, and why it went wrong. Then you can do something positive, and make it work out right.
I just took off 3 1/3 weeks, and still made money. I couldn't make any money working 80 hour weeks in remodeling! Ocassionally, I'd make a little chump change.
Blue
*First to Ken, imagine telling some guy who works for you you are not going to pay him for the eight hours it took him to do something he told you he could do in five. I tell people I don't work for anybody, I work for everybody.As to the rest of you, I've been putting out feelers for working for somebody. I want to be the a--hole in chinos who wonders why you weren't done last week. I'm not done with self employment, I just need a time out to see how the other half lives. On the other side of the coin, I laid up a tile back splash over a well set counter top today. I got a page at close to 8:00 p.m. The lady told me how nice everything looked. I asked for the big "but" and she said she had none, was just really pleased at how things looked.
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I am selfemployed, my boss is a little strange but he lets me have off days without chewing me out too much, and days off when I really need them. It ain't the road to riches, but it is a reasonable path. I buy houses and do what most of us do for a living, remodel them. When I am done with the project I don't have to ask if someone else thinks it's true, I just move on to the next task. I won't entertain (in this market) the sale of the house before it's completed because someone else would want to make changes to the details I've worked out. It's easier to just offer it for sale and let them deal with the details they want after I'm gone. How many of us have done the job we were hired to do only to have the client state that it isn't at all what they thought it would look like even though their initials are on the drawings that we agreed on. I just got fed up with people that want the Ritz on a baloney buget. Of course I admit I borrowed some money for a chunk of the first project I bought, and the values people pay for real estate here in california are unreal, but it is a way to be independent and selfemployed. I wish all of you luck in your endevours, and peace in your hearts.
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The part I really like about being self-employed is how, when the customer wants to get 10% of the project for free, either by haggling about the price or assuming all the extras should be done for nothing, my employees and my subs and my suppliers all take 10% off so that I don't fork over the whole amount out of my pocket. Oh, wait, that was just a fantasy, sorry.....
*Jeez guys you make the remoldeling business seem terrible . I got out of it 5 yrs ago and only subcontract from builders . Sure installing a kitchen for a builder doesn't pay close to what I get from a homeowner but if there's is a problem with the product he gets the call not me . And if if must be replaced he has to pay me . Thats what drove me away from homeowner work . Has it really gotten worse ??? I still install moulding for homeowners once in awhile . They are responsible for caulking and painting and I quote a flate labor rate . Does anyone remember the term jackleg ????
*If you want to be content being self-employed marry a woman with a good job and bennies.
*Sweet Jesus! I've never been so depressed inmy life. I started at this thread laughing while I read then I realized...It sounded more like a self-biography. If I only had half the money that everyone thinks I have, I could retire now. There used to be a time that I really believed I enjoyed being self-employeed because I was my own boss and I could choose my hours. Well it seems that I chose all the hours. I am either on the job or at home figuring out the next, billing for the previous or something in between. "just a couple more big jobs and I'll be in the clear" Yeah, right. I think murphy's laws were written with the contractor in mind.I can't even remember how many times I have thought about hanging it up but something or another kept me in the game. I've finally figured out how to get ahead though (i think). A little diversity and keep the guys working while I'm out getting other jobs instead of constantly being on each one. I have also expanded into commercial work which I turn over to mostly subs. Good profit in commercial, less competition and a lot less physical work on my end. My new philosophy is to take all I can get and figure out how to get it done later. It beats the hell out of sitting around a week between jobs.Brain-achingly,Pete Draganic
*You're right cc. The really successful carpenter is one whose wife has TWO jobs!
*You guys are now touching on an issue that really explains it all...how much would you say your own personal freedom is worth? Days off when you want 'em, taking more time on a project you really like, stoppin' to gab in the middle of the day, cruising through town to see what's going on, hangin' by the stream. How much is the ability to choose worth to you? The answer is measured in head-, stomach-, and backaches.
*No aches...Near the stream,J
*I don't understand the problem, I'm not making any money, and I doubt that I will ever make a LOT of money, but I have never been happier. This is great...(see Rich's post above, #24).Rich Beckman
*b The joys of self employment or why I torure myselfI too eat to many tum's(only the favored ones) drink to much coffee and worry about work to much.On the other hand if I'm 10 minutes late no one is screaming at me. If I want a cup of coffee I go to 7-11 and get it. yes all of my guy's think I'm the bank of billy over flowing with cash. Some weeks I wonder what they do with all that money.(Full scale goverment work DC area last was 23.78 per hour) Moved some of the guy's to a job in Pen.(VA Hospital) where they get free room and board and full scale work. Why couldn't I have fund a job like that when I was younger?????
*Is this Breaktime, or have I logged back onto autobodyonline?The joys & problems of self employment are the same no matter what job you are doing. I recognize all the above symptoms and comments as comming from shop owners in the auto collision industry. I thought it was just that industry until I talked to other self-employeds in other industries. I especially agree with: my employees thought I was making money, but they were making a lot more than me. I wanted their checks. But they did not want my headaches. One must figure out how to make it work for them and if it doesn't, try new things. Do not continue to be miserable. This is not your practice life so you can get it right next life. Good luck and take care,Frank
*Great thread, guys. Hang in there.
*Good one FRank! Most miserable contractors continue to do the same thing that makes them miserable. Why? I don't know,Try it some other way.I partnered up and worked alone without employees for 2 years. We never worried about anything! The builders would ask "when you gonna get your guys over here?". We'd lie and tell them they were finishing up another job and would be here next week.After a few houses, they'd quit asking because we were getting them standing just as fast as crews with 4 and 5 guys. Why? Because we never wasted any time, and never had to re do things, and didn't spend time teaching,etc.If your guys are making more than you, get rid of them and do their job!Blue
*A lot of small business problems are caused by the pressure of having employees. What you need to look at is if you even NEED employees,or do you keep them out of habit,tradition,or possibly EGO.In a lot of peoples minds there is a lot of status tied up in having employees and meeting a payroll.What if you could make MORE money practicing your same trade without any employees? Would you be any less successfull?If one system isn't working for you try another.I work alone most of the time,doing jobs other contractors send 2-3 guys to do.I get it done in the same time or less(I am usually done with production work by 1:00-2:00 each day,sometimes earlier)I don't waste any time with frivolities like cigarette breaks,coffee,Lunch Etc.I can do those things when I am done for the day.I can also do jobs that payroll ladden contractors won't handle because the job is to "small",And since I am the only one willing to do it I can set pretty much my own price.Where the real profits come in is doing bigger jobs using subs.I let guys who have the ego or the temperment which requires them to maintain a payroll, To pay the cost associated with the employees.I use the same sub every time,we get along great,and I have all the benefits of having "employees" when I need them,and none of the burden of maintaining them full time.I know there are businesses that really have to maintain a crew,but a lot of others really don't.Look at your own situation---maybe you can make more money,in less time,with a lot fewer hassels,by working without employees.Good Luck,Stephen
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Self employment what a concept! I can see my miseries are not alone and mirror those of the other posters to this forum.
I have been self employed 14 of the last 17 years. This is what occured to me about 4 or 5 years ago. When you work for someone else you can't wait for lunchtime. When you work for yourself you can't believe it's lunchtime and wish this hunger would go away because you can't afford to take the time for lunch. The job has to be finished
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Frank and Blue are exactly right.
This is not a practice life. If it sucks, change it.
I had been working for myself in Missoula, MT doing remodels and such. Business was actually pretty good, but life sucked. I moved here to Nashville and decided that since I had no customer base I'd go framing for a while. I get a job with a framer with two other guys (Homey and Spaz). They're just about done with the first floor deck when I arrive. We get called off this job to finish another one where the framing sub disappeared.
I'm thinking to myself: "What?!"
We "finish it up". Go back to our house. Frame the first and second floors, frame the roof, sheath it run a bunch of brick pocket and cornice backing, Christmas time, New Years, week off.
I meet Mike (the boss) on Christmas eve, he gives me my check. See ya Monday I say. Monday rolls around. I get up, get the java bubbling, Fight the maniacs on these Nashville Highways to the job site.
No tool van. Hmmm...
I fight the maniacs on the Nashville Highways home. I call Mike. No answer. No surprise. He finally calls back around 3:00 and says that he was simply losing too much money to go on with that house.
"F*ck it" seems to ba a prevailing attitude here.
Mike went broke because he was paying Homey and Spaz way too much for their output. They were lazy and didn't give a hoot about quality. I can see how Blue could blast out a house with a partner that knew his stuff because having to back up and re-do stuff can really eat up time, but Homey and Spaz just don't care about that. All they cared about was how hung over they were.
So I go see the GC. "Have you talked to Mike?" I say. "no, but I wish he'd hurry up and get back here to finish that house" he says. "Ummm, he's not coming back" I say.
So I end up finishing the place alone, and I'm thinking well heck, this is o.k., I can just sub instead of totally working for myself or someone else... of course, I'll need some more tools and insurance...
I finish the place in two weeks -- Just like I told him I would. He loves it. Writes me a check with a smile on his face. He then offers me a job as the @$$hole in chinos wondering why the job isn't done yet. I think about it for a minute.
Let's see, I don't need insurance, or licencing, I don't need to load up on ladders and other big tools that I didn't bring with me from Montana. No more chiropractor bills. Health insurance, company vehicle, attractive salary with generous bonuses for each house completed.
OK, I'll take it.
"Can you wait for a couple of weeks so I can get some things in order first? Here's the name of a framer who really needs help and can keep you busy till I'm ready for you". I tell him I don't want to start work with someone who thinks I'm in it for the long haul only to leave after a couple of weeks, it wouldn't be honest or right (this framer had already come out to my jobsite and offered me a job, and I him told probably not, but that I'd think about it).
I had a couple of leads on teeny jobs for friends that would keep me busy for two weeks so I called them and scheduled 'em in.
Let's see, looking over my billing I find that was at the end of January. I called this GC every other day and left voice mail: "gimme a call let's set up an appointment to discuss this new position..."
After three weeks of him not returning my calls, I start leaving messages with his secretary. Still no response. (This wasn't an offer made in passing, we've met twice for about an hour each discussing my responsabilities, salary, bonuses and benefits...)
Two months and counting...
The small jobs keep coming... The customers are as happy as a weasel in a chicken coop when they see my work.
I build a custom toolbox for my truck, fix the headlights, clean it up, print some business cards, set the wheels in motion.
I didn't even try to be self-employed this time, the builders are just too flaked out here. There's so much work that you don't even have to know how to read a speed square to be a framing sub. You can just abandon a job, and go find another one. And it seems that irresponsability is a normal part of doing business. I can't wait for him to call back!
I'm sure that my customer-satisfaction and quality based method will bring me far in this arena, so
"F*ck it",
I'll work for myself.
Pickin' and shimmin' in Nashville,
Dan
*Everyone thinks that since you are self employed, you don't have any boss. The truth is, when you are self employed, EVEYRONE is your boss, especially your employees!Blue
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On the other hand, you don't spend time worrying about what Stupid Boss Trick the idiot down the hall will come up with next; you don't have to fix said idiot's mistakes and agree when he says they were your fault; you don't have to worry about learning Spanish because the d**n B******s who SWORE that they weren't going anywhere pick up the whole factory and send it to Mexico, leaving you and 300 other just-gettin-by families out in the cold on two weeks notice! Been there, done that...
Have a decent boss now, almost best of both worlds - government job - but still wish I could be out in the sunshine...
*
Blue and Frank,
You both give very good advice in your lasts posts here...I'm in the tennis business now and also enjoy doing projects sans any help...Wow the estimates are exactamates with no employees...I'm installing a skylight tuesday/wednesday with no help and really looking forward to the "work.(strange word for such fun...)"
Near the stream, and changing my ways regularly,
J
*JackPush the delete button. . . yer gettin almost as repetitive as yeri knee-jerkfriend with the toilet/flamethrower
*2 days!?! I bet Blue could do it in 30 minutes... :)May I ask how much the project runs? Not to pry, just getting a sense of what a plain-vanilla project like this costs up there in the wilds.
*Lisa, what did that paranoid, vertically challenged, big-eared Texan say? "There's going to be a BIG SUCKING SOUND if you pass NAFTA!" Pass me the pie (chart).At least YOU get to b**ch about/to the boss... we can only talk to ourselves in traffic, or by the stream.
*I'll bet I coudn't! In 30 minutes, I'd be a good 30 miles away from that job!Blue
*
Hey, I talk to myself in traffic too. I am now trying to clean up my language, guess who keeps listening! And I thought that was what this BB was for (use the definition of your choice)...
Off to the horizontally and fermented grain challenged portion of our fair land directly to port...Lisa
*
Whoa, this got a little depressing there, for a while! I'm one of the "lucky" ones; my husband has the "real" job, which pays the mortgage, etc., and I have the, er, joys of being self-employed. The only time it was
i really
rough, was when I was the single mother of three, and worked extra jobs in addition to my little surface design business. But I taught myself, early on, that it did absolutely no good to worry and lose sleep - why add sleep deprivation and health problems to all the others? I prayed a lot, too, and I have to say that we always ate - barely, but we ate, and my girls got to see their mom!
I think it's worth mentioning that money-making is a lot more tied in with men's egos, than it is with women's - not a negative comment, just one of those many differences.
I've noticed that my husband's complaints about
i his
job are really not a whole lot different from the complaints of the self-employed! You know, "The grass is always greener..." Recently, he's said that he eventually (soon) wants to quit
i his
job and spend time marketing me, which I would
i love
- I can't stand dealing with the people, sorry to say; I just wanna do the work! Hubby works at a big shipyard, and hates it, now that they've moved everyone to little, grey cubicles, and begun some b.s. "teaming" stuff. We've decided that he could do a little marketing on Saturdays, but we just can't afford for him to quit his job right now (bennies, and all that!). Of course, it makes a
i big
difference that all the girls are grown, so it's only ourselves we have to worry about.
I'm a big believer in if you don't like it,
i change it!
Although it's easier said than done, it's worth it.
Patty
*after 8 years we (my wife works 1/2 time for state for bennies) are still hanging in there remodelling, building a set of cabinets or two each year, whatever comes our way. Recently had an employee for six months and i'm still undecided if the added stress is worth the potential for proffit of that arangement. What I am sure of is that I am one of the lucky ones - there always seems to be more work than I can possibly do, we are building equity in real estate, and I can decide who to work for and who not to. Our oldest is headed off to college in the fall, and while we can't give him the financial help we would like, we think we'll be able to get all three a good start in whatever they want to pursue when they leave the nest. We don't worry about the price of gasoline, we just buy it. We don't fret about the cost of soccer cleats, we pay it. No, we're not wealthy, or even well off, but I do enjoy my profession and we always seem to have enough money to do what we want. I read something recently that rings true- "the best we do, we do with a light heart". When my kids talk about careers I tell them, if you like what you do, you will find a way to scratch out a living at it, if you don't like what you do it doesn't matter how much money you make, you'll be unfulfilled. Besides, when I get discouraged my wife says "what do you want to do, go get a real job?"
*Gang, it hit the better part of 65 degrees F today, I wanged a 78"x42" potential picture window in the side of the house, while the mason whipped half a two-flue up the center... nice thermal all daylong. Makes you kind of nostalgic for working indoors, for a pin-head (Lisa, I KNOW you're hoisting one or several, but take notice when you sober up...), in a high stress job, for peanuts. Or maybe not. Tommorow, make the potential a reality, trim, insulate, and hang rock. Whatta country. Not a Canadian Beer(?) in sight.
*Well said, Bob!
*Yeah, Bob, well-said! Funny how you always manage to find the money for the really important things, huh? : )Patty
*
Been forced into self employment ...... no one seems to want to hire a 45 year old with two bad knees and a noticeable limp. I've always wanted to work for myself but I had hoped to start on my own terms (enough capital and equipment etc.). Only working part time now because of going to school (tech graphics and design) ..... hopefully I'll be able to offer more to clients when I finish school. It's a struggle but it HAS been worth it so far. When people see previous work you've done and hire you because of it ......there's a real satisfaction I've never had in any previous occupation. Just love building (and old wooden boats,too) I guess.
*.... or too foolish to know any better.
*
George
Was that a little
i whine
you were having with that
i Americ-ade
yer drinkin???
I'll think of you when I hoist my next one. . . or maybe not(pity gives me gas)
Nudgin' 70F in my back yard!!!
*Patrick, it's refreshing to know, that on the first day of fishing season... you can be counted on... to take the bait! Also, I can't recall... is it the Millions of Blackfies or the Thousands of Riding Mosquitoes that infest Canada first? Whine? No, I'll stick with my Black47 Stout thanks.
*There's nothing foolish about loving Old Wooden Boats!Dan
*A friend told me I had it made being self employed. He said I can take a half day off when I want to. I told him I can even choose the 12 hours I want to work. L. Siders
*
The only bad part of being self employed and working alone is that my boss is an a--hole and my employee is lazy. If we cann't get rich let's have fun.
Good luck: Jim
*
The good news is I got to sleep in this morning until 9:00 a.m. The bad news is the reason I slept in, another night up worrying (5:00 a.m. finally got to sleep).
Well, let me go make some money so I can sleep tonight.
*Rolaids, Naproxen, & coffee; all the major food groups.