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Discussion Forum

the latest on cordless drills?

| Posted in General Discussion on April 11, 2000 09:06am

*
I just have to add my two cents about the Bosch 14.4 volt tool. I have an older one that was my front line battery drill for 3-4 years. Fantastic tool. When the gearbox started slipping in high range all the time, and my repair guy told me not to bother fixing it (too $$$), I went looking for a new one. Unfortunately, the successor model gained size and weight, and lacks the fine balance of the older one. It seems everyone’s drills gained weight in a misguided effort to emulate the wildly popular Dewalts. Bad move, from my perspective.

After my first t-handle Bosch with the locking spindle brake and single sleeve chuck, I swore I’d never go back. That eliminated a lot of tools from consideration. I eventually got the Panasonic 15.6 drill/metal-cutter combo, and the drill was good but not great. Too tall and nose-heavy. Then when Panasonic came out with their second version of the 15.6 drill I got that one and I LOVE IT. It is very compact and powerful, but lighter than a lot of weaker drills. The NiMH batteries last a very long time, the ergonomics are dead-on, the thing looks very cool…you get the picture. The only weakness compared to the old Bosch (Panasonic engineers pay close attention here!) is the torque at low rpms. The Bosch was really controllable and tractable at slow speeds, while the Panasonic starts at 65 rpm with a jerk. But all things considered, it is the best drill out there today for the way I work.

They also make a 12 volt model weighing about 6 ounces less, also an awesome tool. I think the 15.6 is more versatile on a job site and the 12 is better for an installer or in a shop environment. Just my preference.

One more thing. If you only use the drill for driving screws and small bits, consider the 12 volt with the 3/8″ chuck. The 1/2″ chuck will not fit in the hole molded into the top of a stepladder and the 3/8″ will. It is a darn handy way to store the tool ready to use on a stepladder. I hope this is helpful.

Bill

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Replies

  1. Erik_Wordal | Apr 11, 2000 11:33pm | #40

    *
    Andrew,
    Looks like you hit a hot topic! I tell you what I have a Dealt 14.4 volt and I use it a lot (I also bought the circular saw and it works great. The drill has had its share of problems, I was a little hard on it a couple of times and now it seems like the chuck is a little looser than it used to be. I think if I could do it over now I would get the Makuta 18 volt Saw and Drill kit. The drill is well built and has a metal end before the chuck. I think it would last better. The kit goes for around $350?? at Amazon.com Home improvement. If you even have an inking about getting the saw, get it now otherwise you don't get the combo price. Good Luck! Eric
    manta Ynez, CA

  2. Guest_ | Apr 12, 2000 06:11am | #41

    *
    You're very close to being right about the wieght/size/power trade-off. If you think 14.4 is close, try the Panasonic 15.6v, it absolutely will win your heart. I bought one a couple of months back and now I find myself competing for it with my helper. We've got more powerful and less powerful but nothing with the back for its size. The 15.6v battery is updated technology so it performs similar to an 18v (Dewalt or Makita).

    Ron

    1. Guest_ | Apr 12, 2000 03:41pm | #42

      *OK, some things not in the FH article, nicads are one or more nickel-cadmium "cells" nominally rated at 1.2 volts each. Each cell is a pair of electrodes, cathode (-) and anode(+), one from each metal, separated by electrolyte, a substance that conducts ions. Crudely speaking, the chemistry of discharge involves the redox erosion of one electrode and growth of the other, recharge the opposite; the electron exchange between the electrodes being the useful current.There are chemical equations for the voltage created by various combinations of electrode metals, that's why nicads have different cell voltages than your 1.5v Everready... Battery voltage is the sum of cell voltages, so the cordless hierarchy goes 9.6v 12v 14.4v 15.6v 18v. (The 15.6 is the only odd cell count.) Rarely will all cells have the same voltage.I think the basic rules on nicads, based on some recent but still superficial reading are: (1) heat is bad, physically breaks down the cells, so don't run them too hard -- internal resistance yields waste heat on discharge -- or charge them too hot. The microprocessor chargers should handle the latter, but charging in the direct sun could cause a problem. (2) Don't charge in the cold either, I forget why;(3) Don't discharge them "completely," that is to a battery voltage of zero, the reason being that some individual cells in this condition will actually become reverse-polarized (as they don't all discharge at equal rates) while others retain a slight charge ... the charged ones will load the reversed ... destroying the battery;(4) For the same reason it is best to COMPLETELY charge a battery to get all the cells as equal in voltage as possible before beginning discharge;(5) The "memory effect" is a bit bit of a misnomer, it described a condition where after a number of shallow discharge/charge cycles the cells could not quite achieve a full 1.2v, falling perhaps 200mV short and thus reducing the overall energy content of the battery ... deep discharge & full recharge tends to equalize the cells and counteract the condition...More as I stumble through it ... when I have time (not now or soon)...

      1. Guest_ | Apr 13, 2000 12:31am | #43

        *I have used 3 B&D 9.6v "Scruguns" sinced 1979...thought they were pretty ugly tools with that big old battery sticking out. Then I got a few B & D 7.2v drills that took the stick type battery like Makita's. Along comes that "yellow" tool in 12, 14.4 and then 18v. The difference in price between the 14.4 and the 18 was $25....and the 18 has the 1/2 chuck. Son got the 12v combo so naturally he got the razz everyday about getting "big boy toys" when he could handle them. That 12v sure was nice for overhead stuff though. I found one used and discovered my 18v charger would charge it too. Got that DeWalt radio for Xmas and now use it for recharging. Big problem I notice now is the keyless chuck. It just doens't hold my magnetic screw bit driver very long before it falls out. A couple of times it fell out just when I was screwing down a floor and disappeared down that hole that Murphy is always leaving around. Anybody know if the chuck can be made to hold the bit better--haven't really looked but seems like the jaws have flutes to grip the bits and there must be some kind of mechanism that jams the jaws tight (ramp and roller?) Anyone had one apart? I'd go over and pickup that 18v to look at it but its time for therapy on my hyperextended elbow...must have picked up something heavy...hmmm. Thor

        1. Guest_ | Apr 13, 2000 03:34am | #44

          *When you put the bit into the chuck leave just a little slack, hold tight to the chuck with one hand and pull the trigger. That will make the chuck so tight you'll have to do the reverse trick with the trigger to get it open. I think the manual says not to do that but when was the last time a carpenter read a manual. If you use that method just make sure you don't over spin the chuck open or closed with the bit hanging in the chuck or you could throw it across the room or it will hang up at an angle and hurt you. Nothing like a little preaching to the choir.

          1. Guest_ | Apr 13, 2000 04:36am | #45

            *You mean there's some OTHER way to do it?

          2. Guest_ | Apr 13, 2000 05:01am | #46

            *Andrew, LOL, For the longest time I was tightening those chucks by hand and loosening them too. Now, I don't mean to imply that I'm slow on the uptake all the time but in this case I might as well shout it out...SSSSSSLLLLLLOOOOOOWWWWWW!!! Maybe it's because all I ever used were keyed drivers before I got my first yellow tool.

          3. Guest_ | Apr 14, 2000 12:13am | #47

            *yellow junk....in the repair shop...and for sale...near the Makita blue stream,aj

          4. Guest_ | Apr 14, 2000 12:49am | #48

            *I'll give you a quarter for yer yellow belt sander....: )

          5. Guest_ | Apr 14, 2000 12:53am | #49

            *Well Olav just run to your favorite local store, try a couple for size, then do a price check with a couple mail order outfits. My favorite is Seven Corners Hardware/Tools on Sale.I too am unimpressed with the big voltage units. If it needs more power than that I crank up the generator or plug in the wall depending on where I am.I settle for 12V or 14.V. My favorite brands are Milwaukee and Porter-Cable. But Sears sometimes has drills on sale so cheap you can't afford not to buy them.Just be sure the charger will operate off generator electricity if you plan on using it where commercial power isn't available(Don't know if you have grid power at your house). That isn't mentioned on some instruction manuals so you may have to ask. By the way how is the project coming? Did you get the floor flat? Reasonably level? Are you in the new part yet?Happy sunshine!

          6. Guest_ | Apr 14, 2000 03:40am | #50

            *RIGHT ON JACK !!!!!!

          7. Guest_ | Apr 14, 2000 04:20am | #51

            *Scooter - Have you seen the "Bigg Lugg"? Clips on your belt and is just a big hook. I bought one and I love it for my 18 volt. Also nice for nail gun instead of those times you have to hold it between your knees while using both hands for a second.

          8. Guest_ | Apr 14, 2000 06:29pm | #52

            *We have had 4 of the Makita 9.6v guns and they worked just fine. Now we have 5 Dewalt 14.4v and 1 Bosch, all are good tools. My only complaint about cordless drills are the keyless chucks. It seems you can never get them to hold a drill bit, once it starts to break through the workpiece. Doesn't matter whether it's wood, plastic, or metal, the bit stops turning and the chuck keeps spinning! I, too, have cornered the Dewalt reps and their answer is to buy the hex shaft drill bits. Great advice after we bought 8 drill indexes from Fastenal...none of which have the hex shafts!Good luck and happy cordless screwing!

          9. Guest_ | Apr 14, 2000 11:33pm | #53

            *Chuck,Set aside some time some afternoon and try your hand at putting three opposing flats on the shanks of a few bits. If done correctly, the flats would form a triangle when you look at the bit from the end.The flats do not have to be very big. Nor do they have to come together and make the shank a triangle. You just have to have enough flat spot for the jaws of the chuck to catch on. I've done this when drilling through tough material before, and it works. Only takes a couple minutes per bit. The thing you have to be careful about is not to take mucho more off one side than the others.P.S. I've had drill bits come loose in those hex collars before, and slip just as badly as a regular bit in a chuck that wasn't tight enough.

          10. Guest_ | Apr 15, 2000 03:33am | #54

            *When they come up with a cordless charger, that's when I go all cordless.

          11. Guest_ | Apr 15, 2000 04:04am | #55

            *OLAV:Those old Makita 9.6 sure are good work horses. We have had a few over the years and they have lasted and worked well. My current favorite is the Bosch 12 volt pistol grip. They don't manufacture it any more so I bought a reconditioned one recently from Bosch/Skill for back-up and future replacement. 12 volt is a good size and weight for what I do and I prefer the pistol grip over the T-handle. Too bad everything on the market seems to be T-handle, there is little to choose in pistol grip. Pistol grip allows you to put your thumb,index and middle finger behind the drill and pull the trigger with your ring finger. You can push more without bending your wrist back (doctor recommended). DeWalt certainly has bad chucks, they just don't work, Jachobs is a good brand and is found on lots of drills. I read good stuff about Panisonic but they are not mainstream, I would like to try them out.

          12. Guest_ | Apr 15, 2000 04:14am | #56

            *Yup, yup, yup. Pistol grip is the only way for trim, cabinets, etc, where you need control, IMO. 12v PC pistol grip, pry it out of my cold, dead hands.Adrian 'Pistol Grip' Wilson

          13. Guest_ | Apr 15, 2000 05:44pm | #57

            *On the keyless DeWalt chucks -- I have 2 and always tighten them using the power of the drill, and the bits never slip. The chuck gets much tighter than I could get it otherwise, and the only way I can get it opwn it to reverse the drill.Of course, this goes against the mfr's instructions, and you could hurt yourself, so proceed at your own risk.... But it's just not much of a risk, it is so much faster, and safe one you get adroit at it. Just use your palm as a kind of clutch to drag on the collar, instead of trying to hold on tight.

          14. Guest_ | Apr 15, 2000 09:38pm | #58

            *Ralph: I too have tried the fast jamming method of holding bits. I picked that up by using my "keyed" 9.6v B&D's without keys. I always used hex drivers and the keyless chuck on my DeWalts held them just fine when new. Maybe things are just getting work worn and don't hold as well.Luka: I have tried putting flats on drill bits and they help. I depends on where the jaws grab things as to how true they run. I found some drill bits at a flea market (about 3/16") with larger ends--some kind of quick-change set up for machine shops--seems to hold better with no filing.Adrian: Seen that solar panel powered charger? Maybe not the cats meow in Nova Scotia or Seattle...Ralph & Andrew: I'll be durned! Never thought there was a way to tighten/untighten a DeWalt chuck WITHOUT using drill power. Just opened my 3 year old, plastic sealed, manual and it IS supposed to be a two handed, NO POWER procedure! Well, mine still don't hold well and I use drill power. Hmmmm.... No comments on a wimp grip now!I wonder if those cordless hammerdrills have keyless chucks??? I'm forever tightening up my KEYED models.BTW I heard a little rattling noise when I picked up my manly yellow 18v. Thought it was a little piece of drywall mud that slipped through a louver in the case. Used it for a week. Took it apart and found that the presumed drywall mud had morphed into being the rear armature shaft bushing. Used loctite on the retainer and reassembled.....working fine.Snowing in the Rockies......... Thor

          15. Guest_ | Apr 15, 2000 10:25pm | #59

            *I just noticed that the DeWalt chucks that everyone is complaining about are made by Jacobs. The ones that DeWalt uses do have the problem of loosening up as everyone has mentioned. I still believe Jacobs has good chucks, just not the style used on the DeWalt tools.

  3. Ted_Gilbert | Apr 16, 2000 05:55am | #60

    *
    Soon as I finish my Solar-Powered flashlight, I'll get going on the cordless charger. Meanwhile, can I get a medium size E-cabinet to store my E-mail in?

  4. Guest_ | Apr 16, 2000 01:43pm | #61

    *
    Greg Gibson suggested, (In another thread), that a charger be taken apart to look for a fuse. and someone else said to check the diode as well.

    Both good pieces of advice. However, the very first thing I did when my charger failed was popped that puppy apart and looked for a fuse. No fuse. There are two cans that look like capacitors, an LED, a resistor or two, and two or three things that could be diodes.

    I asked once, and I'd like to ask again, does anyone know the most common component to go out on these things ? How do I identify that particular component ? I can desolder and replace any component, I just need to know which one.....

    Makita Fast Charger. Model DC9000

    Input 115V~ 35W 50-60Hz
    Output DC9.6V 1.5A _____86.9_____

    1. Guest_ | Apr 16, 2000 06:27pm | #62

      *No chip? If it's that basic, just troubleshoot it by testing for voltage & continuity. Those wallwart transformers go bad too. Capacitors get fried eventually, the electrolytic kind. Are the parts you're looking at just a diode bridge to convert AC to DC, caps to smooth the current?

      1. Guest_ | Apr 16, 2000 07:01pm | #63

        *I to have more Makita chargers than braincells...but if I finally sell all my 9.6 toys, I would have to provide chargers.....money talks though!!!near the makita blue stream,ajAndrew...you are the "renaissance man" of breaktime....is their anything you don't know boy?

        1. Guest_ | Apr 16, 2000 07:19pm | #64

          *Andrew, thanks for the response.No chip. The only tester I have is a decades old radio shack micronta. (Cheapest of the line.) I am wary of sticking those probes into something that is plugged in. 2 reasons, I am a chicken-shit, (don't wanna get zapped), and I don't want to acidently short across something and ruin a possibly good part in the process of trying to find a bad one amongst the good.Testing for continuity is only giving me continuity on everything, because it goes around the other way in the circuit. LOL The circuit gets around, long or short. At least this is as I can figure, not being a bona-fide electrical magician. I am not a genius in this field, but if someone is able to point me in the right direction, I knows how to take one out, and put one back in. heheheI guess my point is that I have 'tested' about as far as I am able to, short of just desoldering EVERYTHING, one at a time, and testing each part for continuity on it's own. Something I may end up doing, but I was hoping that someone who has a lot more knowledge in this field would for some odd reason be familiar with a particular part in this particular charger which was most likely to crap out. Oh well.

          1. Guest_ | Apr 16, 2000 07:28pm | #65

            *The only thing it ever tells me is goodbye. LOLI'll just have to get happy with luggin a cord around behind my corded makita. No problem, really, it's not like I have to lug it around to worksites anymore. Thanks anyway, AJ, I appreciate the offer.

          2. Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 01:25am | #66

            *Last thoughts....diodes have gone on all the car battery chargers that I have successfully fixed in years past....they are easy to test inplace...the voltage will flow in one direction higher than the other and if blown they will either appear as open circuits or flow both ways possibly...I may have to take apart my Makita car charger tonight since it has been broken for awhile and see if I can solve this mystery....near the Makita blue stream,aj

          3. Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 02:22am | #67

            *If it isi notplugged in, I have difficulty understanding how the "circuit gets around, long or short." And even if this is the case, you only have to break that circuit in one place rather than "desoldering EVERYTHING".Just my thoughts. If you took all I know about it and put it in a thimble, the thimble would still appear empty.Rich Beckman

          4. Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 02:41am | #68

            *Luka,When my second PC charger died years ago I replaced it with a 12v 1amp trickle charger. It cost $9 and worked for years. Gotta remember to unplug after about 1 hour.KK

          5. Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 04:28am | #69

            *Ok, now I am feeling royaly stupid. I think I have wasted a lot of peoples' time. In Seattle I had a great setup. I had better testing equipment, and a fused circuit with a very accessible safety switch. As well as various and sundry testing platforms and clamping benches to hold the 'work' with. (All homemade.)I am now in a tiny tincan with a piece of plywood on my lap, a micronta volt-ohm meter, and an extension cord plugged into another extension cord.... heheheOk, I replaced the battery in the meter, adjusted it to dead-nuts-on for ohms, and set to it. I found every component on the breadboard, (that I could figure out), to be good. I found one component bad, (not on the breadboard). I had to plug the bugger in to find that one.The transformer. It gets 110 going in, but puts nothing out. No AC, no DC nothing at all.The only other thing worth mentioning would be... two components. One had 4 legs side by side, and I had no idea how to go about testing that one. There were two components with 3 legs apiece. One-- continuity between any of the 3 legs. The other-- continuity between the 2 outside legs, but none from the middle leg to either of the others.KK, I am too hesitant to try a 12v trickle charger on a 9.6 volt battery.Anyone, the positive and negative are clearly marked on the battery, but just what the heck is that third post ? Inside the charger, it is routed to the middle leg of that 3 leg component which had no continuity from that leg to either of the others....My apologies to all. And AJ, if yer going to take one apart, could you tell me what the voltage is that comes out the other side of the transformer ? It's not on the transformer anywhere. If I know the voltage I may try to adapt another transformer to it.Thanks guys.

          6. Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 04:50am | #70

            *Sorry...no transformer in the auto charger....just inline resistance tester circuit cycler....Maybe full of bs...near the stream,ajI would think it puts out around 12 volts....has to be more than 9.6

          7. Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 04:52am | #71

            *psps...you could always unwind the coil and count the windings to get your ratio...more busywork...near the stream,aj

          8. Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 04:54am | #72

            *I wonder if there are any Makita engineers lurking....near the stream...aj

          9. Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 09:14am | #73

            *Fried transformer... It's probably something common like 12VAC or so. There is probably a AC to DC converter, a voltage regulator, and some kind of logic-controlled charging regulator to monitor the rate and level of battery charge to avoid overheating or overcharging. The 3-legged critters -- transistors? I assume the charger periodically takes off the charging current to test the battery.I looked quickly -- there are lots of Makita chargers! http://www.mytoolstore.com/makita/charger.html

          10. Guest_ | Apr 18, 2000 06:43pm | #74

            *Luka, Luka, Luka dig in to your purse, break through the spider webs, chase away the guard roaches and buy an new charger.

          11. Guest_ | Apr 19, 2000 12:38am | #75

            *YeahI've been lookin into it myself, Makita have a new "Quad Charger" that will do 7.2v, 9.6v, 12v & 14.4v both NiCad and NiMh modell DC1411 and they're throwin in a 9.6v NiMH (NiCad cartridge style) for about $90.Cdn.. . that must be about free $US, maybe they'll even pay i you to take one.I'm told it i doesn'thave one of those stupid circuit breakers which have caused i lots of problems like I referred to earlier, but of course they aren't acceting any fault!!!!-pm

          12. Guest_ | Apr 23, 2000 01:25pm | #76

            *FWIW, I looked into the "battery thang" and am still unsure what I did wrong ... the DeWalt XR battery is supposed to take up to 1200 charges ("up to"?) ... but I'll go easier on the next pair ... at $50 each, can't afford not to! Two theories are that I: (1) drained them too far between charges (OK, maybe I did...); (2) let 'em get too hot while using them (hard on batteries, I read); or (3) both.Helps that I have accumulated some bigger tools by now, e.g., a low-gear drill and a rotary hammer, and so won't be tempted to push the cordless quite so hard. I still think it is one of my best purchases to date.

  5. splintergroupie_ | Apr 25, 2000 04:42am | #77

    *
    I first had a Makita 9.6 "Fast Charger" (DC9700)which i've made into an elctrical door stop as i can't bear to part with anything that costs that much; plus i'm sure it's responsible for sending one of my batteries to an early death. On the advice of my electrical guru, i shelled out another 60 clams for the DC1201A which seems to be working OK, though i swear my 9.6 Yellow Peril can screw the Makita into the ground.

    What i'm anticipating is a line of magenta tools so you guys'll quit appropriating mine! And they'll match my outfit...

  6. Guest_ | Apr 30, 2000 04:51am | #78

    *
    Hello all-

    My trusty 9.6v Makita is finally fading, and I'll soon be in the market for a new cordless drill. I know this topic has been hashed out here regularly, and I have done a thorough search of the archives and reviews. However, in light of the fact that cordless technology seems to be changing as rapidly as the clock speed of computer chips, I thought I would revisit the issue. My main question is the trade-off between power and weight. From what I know 14.4s have so far been the best compromise- is this still true? I rarely do heavy-duty drilling with my cordless, but maybe that's because my 9.6 can't handle it. The 18s feel a bit heavy and the new 24s are monsters. I probably won't be in the market for other cordless tools beyond a trim saw and flashlight.

    I'm planning on sticking with Makita since my drill has withstood everything from driving rain to -30 temps. Any advice would be appreciated...

    -Olav

    1. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 01:55am | #1

      *Hi Slav! I can understand your dilemma, but I think it ultimately comes down to what you expect out of the tool. I have a 14.4v Black & Decker Super Cyclone which I have used almost daily for several years and would like to replace it with another one except that they're not made any more I've tried the 18's, but the extra weight doesn't suit me. The 14.4v seems just right for my needs. Makita makes a model with a metal gear case, but I think it's an 18v. The Dewalt 14.4v is supposed to be the same as my B&D,but my buddy has one that I tried and it isn't the same tool. I also tried the PC 14.4v when it first came out, but had problems with two of them in a row, so I won't go there. Sure wish I could get another B&D Super Cyclone! Good Luck!Don

      1. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 01:57am | #2

        *My trustee Milwaukee 12v finally bought it a couple of weeks ago. Like you the power to weight thing was the biggest consideration. I opted for the 14.4 Porter Cable (the perfect compromise) but owes didn't have one. I went down to the 12V with light and case, 2 bats and charger for less than $140.00. I plan to purchase the 19.2V saw and drill kit as soon as I get that far down on my priority list.

        1. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 01:58am | #3

          *Sorry about Slav, Olav. Must have been the spellcheck!Don

          1. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 02:02am | #4

            *My old makita 9.6 is still going strong agter 16 years. I had to rebuild the F/R switch once, but thats it. I love it.Unfortunately my charger just kakked out. I'm afraid to find out whether they are even still available and how much one will be. Alternatively... any of you electric geniuses have any idea what is most common to go wrong with these chargers and whether I can fix it myself ?

          2. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 02:27am | #5

            *There is a new Makita charger coming out that will charge about all their batteries. The rep said it'll charge those old 9.6 sticks in 15 minutes. Somebody might have one already. Olav--I bought a 12v Makita cause it was too good a deal to pass up. Have had a little trouble adapting to a t-handle, but it is the best cordless I've owned. It came with the new black batteries and they really last a long time. I also saw the other day a grey nickle battery that is a stick to fit our old 9.6 stuff.

          3. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 02:32am | #6

            *Luka, i'm sure one of us on the board here would sell you a 9.6 Makita charger reasonably if you need one. Haven't inventoried mine lately but must have at least one to spare. Where do you call home?Olav, i went with Panasonic 15.6 V, 1/2" might buy my third one now that the DW is complaining i never leave the other 2 at home when i'm elsewhere. Unfortunately the Pansaonic designers made their saw for lefties. One of my panasonic chargers may have died not sure yet. If so that was premature. Still got an awesome collection of Makitas and old batteries.Heard you had quite a Northern lights display last week Olav. Did you happen to catch it?joe d

          4. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 02:54am | #7

            *Very cool. : )I live in Washington state. Outside a town called Index.Anybody interested, geddaholta me by e-mail.

          5. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 03:23am | #8

            *Just bought a P/C 12v about a month ago 'cause my makita 9.6 bought the farm. I planned on the 14.4 but the local H.D. ( yeah I know) had the 12v with 2 batteries, flashlite and charger for $119. Couldn't justify the extra bucks, and seems to be a very well made tool. A little heavy for working overhead though.

          6. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 03:51am | #9

            *Lonecat...what can I say? Walk towards the light, old buddy, the clean ,bright, welcoming light of a PISTOL GRIP. Like it was intended for men to use, fer pete's sake.I don't buy this bigger and bigger (and heavier and heavier)cordless thing (though I have to say I haven't tried any of these new big ones). I just figure if 12v can't handle it, plug in a cord.

          7. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 04:03am | #10

            *Adrian, I couldn't agree with you more, at the tool store sat. I looked at a new porter cable cordless saw (19 volt or something like that) and the thing weighed more than my craftsman 6in. saw (corded). I would have to have one heck of an aversion to cords to waste that kind of money for that boat anchor!

          8. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 04:37am | #11

            *Adrian: If they made that new Makita in a pistol grip, I'd go buy 3 of em.

          9. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 04:53am | #12

            *The 14.4 DeWalt has been a fine performer. Great torque -- two gears -- it drives deck screws, twists 3/4" augers, and mixes Durabond without trouble. My gripe now is tha the two nicads it came with are clearly reaching the end of their useful life ... and at $100+ to replace them ... well, what can you do...Be sure to recycle your old nicads! Cadmium = poison.

          10. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 05:23am | #13

            *Well, this has proven to be a popular thread. I haven't heard much in favor of the big drills. IMHO a cord is a lot less hassle than lifting a 10-pound drill. Which reminds me, why hasn't anyone come out with a cordless screwgun? Having wrapped myself up like a mummy with cords while trying to sheetrock, I'd say that's where the technology is really needed...Joe- I caught some of the aurora but if there was anything really spectacular up here in Fairbanks I must have missed it. We're getting so much light no that I'm in summer mode...-Olav

          11. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 05:55am | #14

            *Andrew, I have the Dewalt 14.4 also. Why do your batteries cost so much? I have bought a spare to add to the two that came with it, the cost here is only $49.00 each (for the XR series battery).$100.00 a pop seems awfully high. Mine have been through heavy use/recharging for over 3 years now, and are holding up well.Just curious...James DuHamel

          12. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 06:15am | #15

            *Hmm -- same price, I'm talking about replacing the PAIR of batteries that I've been swapping regularly, so 2*$50 = $100 -- but I wonder why mine are on the wane after 18 mos.? I use one battery until the drill stops working (always abruptly), then recharge it while using the other.

          13. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 05:14pm | #16

            *I can think of 2 cordless drywall guns. DeWalt makes a 12 volt that looks just like my 12 volt drill. Hard to find, but I see them and I know Tool Crib had them. I've almost bought it a couple times, but expensive and I'm aways hoping no more sheetrock jobs. The new Makita cordless uses collated screws-- its 12 volt and my old partner loves his. Its main drawback may be that it wont drive long screws like for a deck. Andrew---- I think nowdays you're supposed to swap the battery when it begins to fade.

          14. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 05:24pm | #17

            *My good old Makita 9.6 bought the farm last month. After a bunch of soul searching, I opted for the DeWalt 18v. Here is what I like and dislike about it:1. Lotsa tourque. When set correctly, this drill can snap off an 1 5/8" drywall screw, no problem!2. Enough torque to actuall drill holes. Now there's a concept. My Makita was great for any hole under 1/4", and the DeWalt can go up to 7/8" (for conduit and flex) with ease.3. Way heavy. Too heavy for a holster. I have seen belt clips for them, but have not bought one.4. Don't buy the accessory pouch. The bits are cheap pieces of sh*t.

          15. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 06:18pm | #18

            *Geez Andrew, don't run 'em all the way down; you're killing your batteries doing that. Read Gary Katz's article, Understanding Cordless Tool Batteries, in issue 128, Dec/Jan 99/00, pp 108-109.Andy

          16. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 08:04pm | #19

            *Running rechargable batteries all the way down is like exercising to the point of a heart attack.

          17. Guest_ | Apr 10, 2000 08:10pm | #20

            *I have 4 Makita 9.6V drills of various types and almost every DeWalt 12V tool that they make including the drywall driver. My favorite drills are the $89 Makita T handle for the small stuff like pilot holes or an occasional deck screw and the Pistol grip DeWalt for almost everything else.

          18. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 03:36am | #21

            *Speaking of Makita 9.6V.. . it's been my favourite for many years, and still seems to have lotsa life. I use it for d/wall with a dimpler attachment, and near everything else. Drives 3-1/2" screws just fineBut I hate the F**kin battery charger that came with it. It has this stupid cutoff/breaker that kicks out constantly while I try to recharge one of the two batteries I keep on the go (the other batt. usually charges just fine). It doesn't seem to matter whether the batt is dead, or just slowing down, or whether it's cool or hot out of the gun. I have to nurse the stupid thing to get it to charge. And it's been that way since day one 6 or more years ago. Stick it in, pop the charge button in, 2-10 secs later it trips off, repeat the process ad nauseum with breaks inbetween and eventually it will take a charge. Two handyman retiree types that I know have the same complaint with the same combo of batt. and charger.Now you may well ask why I have put up with it.. well I live a long way from anywhere that could help me out, and when I'm there, I don't remember about the drill. Cornered some Makita reps once outside my lumber yard and got the usual "never heard of that problem before, better buy a new battery." I said "to hell, why don't you give me a new battery." Guy hands me a card and tells me to call the head office...lost the card.Anyone else hate their Makita charger???

          19. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 03:46am | #22

            *Hi Patrick,I think i do. If i can figure out which one i hate i'll send it to Luka ;-). Like i said earlier i think i'm going to start hating 1 of my panasoic chargesrs too.joe d

          20. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 03:53am | #23

            *"I'm aways hoping no more sheetrock jobs" -- agreed!Yeah, I am doing that, discharging then swap. I still can't get a clear answer on whether battery memory is a problem. I think it may vary by manufacturer.

          21. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 03:56am | #24

            *Same with the 14.4. It drives large and long augers well. But RPM is too slow for spade bits.

          22. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 04:11am | #25

            *I did read the article and think I'm acting consistently with it. "All the way down" is to the point of dead-dead-dead, like leaving a flashlight on. Like all nicads, the batteries put out lots of current and then lose voltage suddenly. It takes a while to drain the last of the energy out, like if you were to leave a flashlight on.Almost every mfr recommends occasional "deep discharge." What is inconsistent is the advice from the mfrs.Anyway, what the heck, I've sent this question along to DeWalt.

          23. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 04:34am | #26

            *HAHAHAHA Send away, me bucko !!

          24. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 04:43am | #27

            *Never one for trendy, I'm sticking with my Bosch. Had a problematic transmission on my 12v... (s/n 172) but that was a "early model" of the T-handles... upgraded to a 14v, with the "fuzzy logic" charger, and it's the Jam. That's the same as "the Mack" for you older hipsters.Downside: These cordless really bite when you try to do more than a few 4+ inch hole saw cuts in 2x stock at a time... bearings heat up, melt the case, and get noisy. Geez. I'm only running three batteries at a clip, say 30 min. non-stop... you'd think for all the clams...wha? 1/2 inch 10amp corded drill for that? They make those?? Dude!Ah, nevermind.

          25. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 04:55am | #28

            *I discovered what a nice job my corded Milwaukee right-angle drill does on these ... at 340 RPM or so, just chews and chews and chews its way along ... drives lag screws great too.

          26. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 04:55am | #29

            *I'd press the issue with DeWalt. I've had the 14.4 Drill/Saw combo kit for I think over 4 years now. Got it when they first came out(I think), and bought a third battery about 3 yrs ago. All three batteries are still doing fine. 18 mos. is way too soon to die. Get new ones free. Tell I said so! Did ya let them freeze? I always(when I remember) bring the box out of the van when it's below freezing. I do the over nite charge deal about every other month too. Jeff

          27. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 04:58am | #30

            *Somewhere in my DeWalt manuals, I read that battery memory is a thing of the past. Jeff

          28. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 05:21am | #31

            *The Jam? The Mack? I assume that means it's good.Older, but never been hip,Rich Beckman

          29. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 05:27am | #32

            *AndrewD/wall jobs are the one thing that always impresses customers. Spend a week doing all the hidden stuff on a job and they come home each night convinced that you've been sleeping all day.. .throw up 2-3 sheets of d/wall and they figure a crew of six has been in there just a flyin. Go for the easy kill...points fer style!!!-pm

          30. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 05:49am | #33

            *George, I will second the vote for Bosch. I have a 14.4volt cordless that does everything I ask it to. Keep a couple of batteries on the charger to insure continuous use. Never been fond of the yellow tools. Funny how on the job site with all the yellow tools kicking around my Bosch and Milwaukee tools keep turning up in other hands.walk good d

          31. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 06:27am | #34

            *Since the question of cordless drills and batteries has come up....I recently needed to clear off a counter so I could install cabinets above. Someone else's DeWalt battery was sitting there charging. I unpluged it and moved it and pluged it in. He was less than appreciative...muttering something about not being able to do that.Did I do any serious damage to his battery or charger? I own no cordless tools, so I have no idea.Thanks.Rich Beckman

          32. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 06:36am | #35

            *That goes in the myth catagory along with the 13th floor, no memory on breaks in charges unless they end/start prematurely and are never completed and go into immediate use. The worst thing that happens is at the end of the charge the heat factor may indicate a full charge when it would have charged slightly longer on its own."Tell it to get a life" and chant prayers to his carbide tips.

          33. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 07:59am | #36

            *Luka, only finding one charger and 12 batteries for M 9.6 V. Will keep looking i'm sure there's one more around.joe d

          34. Bill_Brennen | Apr 11, 2000 09:06am | #37

            *I just have to add my two cents about the Bosch 14.4 volt tool. I have an older one that was my front line battery drill for 3-4 years. Fantastic tool. When the gearbox started slipping in high range all the time, and my repair guy told me not to bother fixing it (too $$$), I went looking for a new one. Unfortunately, the successor model gained size and weight, and lacks the fine balance of the older one. It seems everyone's drills gained weight in a misguided effort to emulate the wildly popular Dewalts. Bad move, from my perspective.After my first t-handle Bosch with the locking spindle brake and single sleeve chuck, I swore I'd never go back. That eliminated a lot of tools from consideration. I eventually got the Panasonic 15.6 drill/metal-cutter combo, and the drill was good but not great. Too tall and nose-heavy. Then when Panasonic came out with their second version of the 15.6 drill I got that one and I LOVE IT. It is very compact and powerful, but lighter than a lot of weaker drills. The NiMH batteries last a very long time, the ergonomics are dead-on, the thing looks very cool...you get the picture. The only weakness compared to the old Bosch (Panasonic engineers pay close attention here!) is the torque at low rpms. The Bosch was really controllable and tractable at slow speeds, while the Panasonic starts at 65 rpm with a jerk. But all things considered, it is the best drill out there today for the way I work.They also make a 12 volt model weighing about 6 ounces less, also an awesome tool. I think the 15.6 is more versatile on a job site and the 12 is better for an installer or in a shop environment. Just my preference.One more thing. If you only use the drill for driving screws and small bits, consider the 12 volt with the 3/8" chuck. The 1/2" chuck will not fit in the hole molded into the top of a stepladder and the 3/8" will. It is a darn handy way to store the tool ready to use on a stepladder. I hope this is helpful.Bill

          35. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 03:27pm | #38

            *Thanks for the info. At least I don't need to be feeling bad (not that I was feeling bad, mind you, but if you had said I ruined it, then I would have to).Rich Beckman

          36. Guest_ | Apr 11, 2000 05:41pm | #39

            *You are SOOOO right. They (current basement job) been wringing their hands as i sweated fixing loose ducts, moving plumbing, sealing air holes, furring, etc. A few sheets of drywall and NOW they think I'm focused.

  7. Guest_ | Apr 30, 2000 04:51am | #79

    *
    MORE ON CHARGERS...

    ...in the thread that wouldn't die...

    I came across the following dissertation on battery chargers by accident today, though it might be of interest. It claims that the deWalt/B&D chargers are unique in being voltage-sensing, that is, briefly pausing during the charge to sample the battery voltage and then decide whether to continue the charge. Anyway, enjoy, FWIW:

    --> http://fan.nb.ca/~aa126/reviews/chargers.txt

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