The old hor. vs. vert. drywall issue…
About to hang 32 sheets of sheetrock in my basement. Most folks seem to say horizontal is the way to go. From what I’ve read the reasons are:
– reduces issues with lumber movement over time
– less taping if you go with 10/12′ boards
– easier to tape the middle.
I’m not pro at taping and the one major drawback to me seems to be the butt joints.
Given this is a basement, there was no way for us to get 12′ boards down there. I’m using 8′ and nearly every wall is going to be roughly 10′ so from the quick math I did, I don’t think I’m actually saving any taping by going horizontal.
Plus, as I’m going at it alone, vertical seems a bit easier. I also went with steel studs so shouldn’t have issues with lumber drying/moving on me.
While I’m always up for any opinions on the above, I’m sure it’s already been discussed to death.
The one question I had, though, is more of a curiosity question: Given that the norm for most folks is to hang horizontally, why haven’t board manufactures tapered the short ends as well? Seems like the only main gripe with hanging horizontally is dealing with butt joints.
Oh…one ‘technical’ question: How do you normally handle electrical cut-outs? I’m trying to come up with a clever method but I’m sure there’s some tried and true methods out there alreay. My one idea was to coat the outlet with marking chalk, align the board. push it up against the wall, then cut it out from the chalk outline.
Edited 4/13/2008 5:04 pm ET by darrel
Replies
electric: measure-cut. (or, mark out the cutout. Score all four sides with a knife. Knife cut corner to corner-hit the center with a hammer. Pull the #### off the back.
They don't bevel the ends because..........it's never been done.
Well, that and the sheets of drywall when being made are ........oh, about 300 ft long. They cut to length b/4 putting into the drying ovens. Older plants-the making is about 300ft long, cut and flipped and sent back down the line drying.
Keep the board up off the floor with a 4'' or so drywall scrap in the center of the sheet. Pull to plumb and set your screws. Easier to handle up on the pc of scrap.
Have fun.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
electric: measure-cut. (or, mark out the cutout. Score all four sides with a knife. Knife cut corner to corner-hit the center with a hammer. Pull the #### off the back.
you're kidding ?
right ?
carpenter in transition
Tim,
Nope, I'm serious.
Learned this many yrs ago working commercial. I should have included that it gets testy on the end of a sheet, but will work with just a bit of care.
This method of score and bash makes a tapered cut on the backside. Perfect for lipping over plaster rings. Works real well when you score with a drywal circle cutter for cans.
Take a pc of scrap and give it a try. When bashing, do not over swing so the hammer handle dents the surrounding area. And by bashing I don't mean full swing. Closer to a forceful tap than full blown bash.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
the whack method was generally frowned upon because it often left the edge around the box pretty fragile.
started out with the keyhole saw and graduated to the rotozip.
even the round cans with the circle cutter were expected to be cut from both sides.
carpenter in transition
You know as well as I that there are different methods, most requiring a little touch to perfect. I've hung board probably every way but using a rotozip. And to be honest, I wouldn't care one darn bit if I never hung another pc of sheetrock.
And you bet, that won't happen.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I've whacked thousands of cutouts: most of them in vinyl covered drywall applications. I'm in agreement with Cal, it's a good system cause it makes a slight backcut. I'd carefully mark the front side, then lean over and make four cuts by eye on the back side, then whack it out. I prefered that method to the giant X because it popped out the cutout in one clean piece with no paper tear out on the backside. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
vert Vs horiz for me depends on the length of the rooms Vs the length of the sheets. If I can make it from 1 corner to the next with 1 whole sheet it goes on horiz. Large room and I'm solo they go on vert.
But in your case with only sheets of 8' I'd go vert so you don't have to hide the butt joints.
For the box cutouts/lighting whatever, you don't want to get yourself a new tool?
Rotozip saw.
A tiny router with bits made for this purpose that have a guide tip.
Measure a cross ref. for the location of the box. THen hang the sheet OVER it. DOn't screw close by.
Find your point on the wallboard with your measurements and plunge the rotozip into the box, move to the side until you hit the side of the box.
Now 'hop' to the outside of the box and cut counter clockwise around it and 'poof' a perfect cutout.
Not too expensive--I think you can get the very basic ones now for 30$ or so.
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
Of COURSE I want a new tool! I've seen the rotozip trick used around window openings...hang rock OVER the window, then rotozip out the hole.Good call.I wasn't actually supposed to be sheetrocking this myself. We hired a friend who is also a professional sheetrocker. Alas, the DAY he was to start he broke and dislocated his ankle. Out for 8 weeks.So, the least I can get out of this is a new tool. ;o)If I work REALLY slowly he might be healed up in time to do the taping and mudding for us, but the missus is really anxious to get the place finished in the next two weeks, so I that plan might not work...plus, the sooner it's done, the sooner I get my new TV ;)The manufacturing/cutting process didn't occur to me. That makes sense. That said, it seems that if one of the manufacturers could figure out how to taper the short end, they'd corner the market for a while.
Edited 4/13/2008 6:20 pm ET by darrel
Rotozip for sure, and if your wife isn't with you pick up any other tools that catch your eye. After you cut around the outlet resist the urge to screw close to it. When you put on the cover plate there is a good chance nearby screws will pop.
The tv would be nice, but I'd still work slow. No point in taping if a friend can do it for you...
Have the pro with the busted up ankle be there for your first few sheets and then later for your first bit of taping if possible.
ALong on your tool jaunt, get Myron Ferguson's Drywall book from Taunton Press and read it through before you start.
When you measure your sheets, subtract a 1/4 max from each msmt. This makes sheets fit-you can't bang sheets of drywall into place.
Make sure the screws set just under the surface--not flush or proud. Don't break the paper. If you aren't certain, then take your 6" taping knife (you've got that on your list too, right? and a Hawk or mudbox?) and run it over the screw. IF it hits it, 'clik clik' it's proud. Screws need to be set in a nice dimple.
Get some drywall nails too. Use a hammer with a convex, smooth face. start a nail in the top of a sheet as you hang it on thewall, hold up with one hand, whack the nail with hammer in other hand. Now the sheet is hung (with a couple nails only) and you can screw it off.
LESS IS MORE, with the mud. You won't understand this until you see it. The pro could show you in a minute what you couldn't sand off the wall in 8 hours.
Have fun! Everybody always says they hate sheetrocking, But I think it's fun. Not fun enough to do full time tho.
;-)
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
don't waste your money on the rotozip. It may be good if you have a ton of cut outs to do, but in a remodel it will make too much dust. Plus it takes a few dozen cuts to perfect the technique (otherwise you will end up cutting a slot into the box and having to redo it)
My recommendation is to measure to the center of each outlet, then hang the dw at the top only. Press it tight against the box, then punch a hole at the cneter of the box with a dw saw. Expand the hole up and down and left and right until you hit the edge, then jump the edge and cut along the outer perimiter. Takes less than 1min per box and leaves a nice edge (and no dust filled room)
I don't agree. I'd say that the dust is minuscule compared to sanding compound, and - really? - you're worried about carving up the box? Just keep the bit moving.
I would use 10 foot pieces of wallboard also. hang vert. that leaves no but ends to tape.
I agree with you, roto zip easier and not hard to control. Why worry about roto dust, he is going to tape and finish anyways, with a lot of dust from that.
alas, no way to get anything longer than 8' down the stairs and even that was tight (1929 house)
another opinon:
don't use the mesh tape with reg. compond,it seems like a no brainer,then it starts cracking.
i prefer paper tape,with reg drywall mud,but if you can't help yourself from using the mesh use a setting type mud for the first coat. also no lightweight til the second and third coat.larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
always...I'm using the densarmor panels. Probably being overly anal, but I figured if I'm using paperless wall board, I might as well not use the tape for the seams either and go with the mesh. I used it in our bathroom and it wasn't that bad.I think your suggestion with the setting compound is exactly what GP recommends. I'll have to dig up the documentation on that. Thanks for the tip.
Do people who belong to this forum actually have a membership to the FineHomebuilding site? IF so do they actually read the articles on that site?It is not that I don't enjoy sharing info but you know 90% of the questions asked are covered in those articles. often more then once.And although I don't doubt that many here are very qualified to answer questions I still would trust the articles that have been authored by someone who's credentials are actually known. And these articles have also passed the editors and the critique of readers that often catch mistakes that sometimes happen.As for this subject you will find more then a few articles on hanging drywall handling butt seams and hanging solo.
You do have a point - especially on topics that are dealt with repetitively. But if there were one definitive method of good building techniques, we could all just buy a text book and follow their example. Building science and construction methods are constantly changing and evolving. Many of the "best practices" are often not the right ones for each situation. There are also regional differences in building techniques not accounted for in national publications.
A couple of years ago I installed what has turned out to be the first a dozen metal roofs relying chiefly on articles from FineHomebuilding. Like most overviews, they provided a good foundation, but I had a hell of a time with the details - which with most trades I have tried are the most important features of their success or failure.
That's where the forum can be very useful. Getting advice from people who do a task every day - which to be blunt, is also not always the case with the author/builders who write for FHB.
That's where the forum can be very useful. Getting advice from people who do a task every day - which to be blunt, is also not always the case with the author/builders who write for FHB.Sure I find many here do give great advice but actually most of the articles ARE written by someone who does do what they are writing about every day. (or at least the information came from someone who does.)
In some cases they have also been in the building fields for many years and also there is usually more then one article about the same subject that may cover a different aspect of a topic. Also the information given is checked before it is published for accuracy and often if a followup will be given if something was printed in error.Now also being blunt you only have the word of the person posting on the forum that they have any experience at all in what they are commenting on. And unless you are new to the internet you know people are often anything but honest online about their level of experience often they will inflate their credentials to make them self seem more important or authoritative. But I find that this forum is much better then most and those who do know what they are doing will always call someone if they give bad info.So I am not telling anyone to stop posting questions But I keep seeing questions posted that more then once have been covered in detail in FHB articles if only they would look.As for building practices changing I find that as a breed builders are the slowest to adopt new technics Just look how many New houses are still framed just as they would have been 30 or 40 years ago. Heck National building code still allows things that have been proven to be a bad idea (like vented crawl spaces) and many builders still build today the way their grand father did.
I think of the forum as providing peer reviewed advice. For someone with a bit of background in the field, it is relatively easy to tell whether the answers you get make sense or not.
Increasingly, the articles in FHB are being written by general contractors who because of the size of their projects employ less subs and do the work themselves. A recent example of this is the article on pouring patio slabs by Mike Guertin. He is experienced, knowledgeable and by all accounts a good guy, but is self-admittedly not a concrete finisher. My small town has several subs who pour more slabs in a week than he has in his life. Should he be writing on the subject in FHB? Sure. But if I as a contractor who has as much experience as him want advice on slabs, he is not who I am going to turn to.
Much as I have enjoyed FHB over the years I can think of several gems of advice I'm glad I didn't follow. Hanging interior doors supported only by their trim, and gluing as well as screwing down laminate kitchen countertops come immediately to mind.
Sure people are lazy about doing searches before posting on topics that have been done to death, but isn't that just the nature of the internet in general? Try talking to a teacher. Things have changed. For the most part, the little devils don't go anywhere near a library, and cut and paste all their assignments from the web.
Edited 4/14/2008 11:11 pm ET by fingersandtoes
Articles are great, but conversations are better. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
mf...
a lot of the articles are written by guys with no more experience than those here on the forum.... ( in ALL trade magazines )
so , assuming an article is the gospel is not a good idea.. what they really are is whatever the author wants to put on paper.. the author's experience, the author's opinions
most articles are good common sense, good ideas, and good procedures
but that is also true of the posts you read here
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
It's also important to note that the articles cannot be challenged where as here, if someone posts something incredibly stupid, they might get zapped with a dozen challenges. Eventually, after several points of view are debated, the truth comes out. For instance, if the TOH guy told me that laying the board horizontally stopped the wicking of water, I'd ask him what special properties the horizontal edge of the board was treated with to prevent wicking. If he claimed that it had something, I'd ask how the mud bonds to it because it uses the water to create the adhesion. It's hard to argue with a written article but not hard to argue with someone here LOL! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
exactly... i mean if blodgett can get published , wellMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
We're just jealous. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Actually the articles are challenged by the editors and the staff of the mag. and also buy readers of FHB. If they article is way off the mark or really stupid then it would never make it to print.
actually... you get more feedback here than authors get in a magazine, and these guys are polite
try something off-the-wall at JLC
where you been ?
you don't sound like the voice of experience
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I did not say you don't get feed back but ask the editors of FHB how many letters and e-mails they get when a mistake is made in a article. And this forum does provide a great service.
I'd rather rely on the collective wisdom of everyone who is working out in the field rather than a handful of editors. Also, there is a limit on the amount of information that can be disseminated in a magazine. There is no limit here. I'm not saying theres no value in the magazine, I'm saying there is significantly more value here simply because small tidbits of information can be dissected and specific questions to specific areas of interest can be discussed ad nauseam.. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
What's the credentials of those editors that you speak of?
Do you honestly believe that any of those editors have more experience doing some of the stuff that they scan for publication then the collective wisdom of the people on this board?
I'm wondering what you come on here for if the information isn't credible. I'd rather make a mistake to the editors of this fine magazine then come on this board and print a mistake! Pretty sure they'd(the editors) just throw my article away but the guy's on here aren't as nice when it comes to erroneous information!
Also I'd agree with Jim Allen when he said he'd throw that TOH mag away for the foolish article regarding this subject!
Doug
re: the guy's post about TOH and horiz. hanging
I think the idea is you get a capillary break between the sheets.
(He'd probably get less abuse if he admitted he read Vogue than TOH!)
k
I understand that but the mag. editors who choose to print a article or not actually check to see if the article is at least accurate. And they actually know the authors resume anyone can signup for this forum and give advice you have no idea who they actually are.
There is such a thing as taste. Take the example of angle-grinder coping vs. jig saw coping: it boils down to preference.
I don't hang a lot of drywall, but I wouldn't hang it vertically. I dislike taping long vertical joints. I have seen some pros hang it vertically, and asked about it, the taper saying "I don't care one way or the other."
Just my 2 cents.
The last basement I did, I also used metal studs and installed the drywall vertically.
Since metal studs only have a 1 1/4" face to screw to, I installed a second stud next to a regularly placed stud at every vertical joint, and screwed them together. It was much easier to attach the drywall with screws without tearing the edge of the drywall.
I then used mesh tape and Easysand 90 to do the rip seams. It's been about a year and a half, and no cracks yet.
As far as I know, I have never had any cracking doing rip seams this way.
Butt seams, OTOH, are always paper tape and Easysand 90.
Bryan"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio - just south of the Glass City
I don't hang drywall that often, and I never could justify the RotoZip. (There are a lot of other tool magnets that are straining to get my money.) What I did do was purchase the bits for removing drywall -- I think mine were from Porter Cable -- and just put one in my cordless drill. It wasn't as fast as a RotoZip, but the price was right and it still saved a lot of time.
"...plunge the rotozip into the box, move to the side until you hit the side of the box.Now 'hop' to the outside of the box and cut counter clockwise around it and 'poof' a perfect cutout."How do you rotozip around plastic boxes? Times I've tried it the guide tip of the bit just melted right through the edge of the boxes.BruceT
There are several possibilities as to what is causing your problem with plastic boxes:
1) You are using a sabre cut bit rather than a Guidepoint bit. Sabre point bits will cut through plastic boxes speedy-quick.
2) Exerting too much pressure toward the center of the box and melting the Guidepoint bit through.
3) A dull Guidepoint bit requires a fair amount of cutting pressure, having to exert excessive cutting pressure ruins your feel for the box edge. Change dull bits.
Jim Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
That's how u do it. If you're melting thru boxes you're pressing too hard or not moving the bit fast enough.
And be sure you have the guide point bit--it has a smooth surface that doesn't cut, at the tip?
Plastic boxes work fine with rotozip. You can even hear it when you hit the inside of the box.
Takes some practice. The 'cut out the inside first' tip here earlier is a good one for practice.
Good luck."Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
I would hang vertical in your scenario also. Make sure you have some good lighting so you get enough mud in those tapers to hide the joint.
For cutting out around boxes, I use a Rotozip with a drywall bit.
Check it out here: http://www.rotozip.com/NR/rdonlyres/F8334303-D564-48E8-A7CC-F33CBB77D642/0/chapter_3_drywall.wmv
I've used the chalk method and it works, but it's definitely slower than hanging the sheet and Roto-zipping around the box. Roto-zipping also makes a much neater cut-out. It does create more dust, however.
If I only had a few boxes and didn't own a Rotozip, I would measure from a fixed vertical and horizontal point and use another box as a template to mark where the cut-out should be.
I didn't read all the replies yet, so maybe someone answered the question about why not taper short ends on drywall--it's because they make it in one continuous sheet and cut the various lengths from it--so where they cut it are butts. I suppose they could somehow taper after they cut to length, but then it would undoubtedly be more expensive.
The guy I often work with almost always hands drywall vertically. He glues it to the field studs and only screws it at the edges. Lot's of time he works alone and it is easier to handle 8 footers and there is no having to tape butt joints.
You have already gotten a number of good sugestions on the hanging and electrical box cut-outs.
I am also a fan of the Roto-Zip tools, although I prefer the Porter Cable model because of the foot design. The learning curve is short with the biggest problem being to remember to always cut around the outside of the box with the tool moving in a counter-clockwise motion.
If you have trouble "feeling the box" with the tool --- try cutting out the inside of the box (in a clockwise motion), this provides you with a visual reference then cut the outside of the box. You will learn the feel quickly.
Just keep in mind that you always need light pressure directed toward the center of the box. Pressure will be up, down, left or right depending upon the side being cut.
If you used plastic boxes - I find it helpful to trim the "setting depth" nubs off of the boxes before hanging the drywall and making the cut-outs. I cut the nubs off at the same time that I make sure that the wires are tucked neatly into the rear of the box.
NOTE: There are several styles of drywall cutting bits for the zip tools - the style you want for electrical box cut outs is a 1/8" diameter, GUIDE POINT bit. The RotoZip brand package will say "Guidepoint" and have a product number which starts with "GP"; example: a package of 10 Guidepoint bits has the number "GP10".
These bits have a short section at the point of the bit which does not have the spiral cutting grooves - it is this section which allows the bit to slip along the edge of the box rather than cut through it. Like the bearing on a router bit.
Mastering the Roto-Zip in a nutshell: Keep the screws away from the cut by at least 2'; adjust the foot of the tool to cut the drywall + ~ 1/2" to avoid cutting any wires; use Guidepoint bits; make a small cutout on your "center of box" mark and make sure you are cutting inside of the box; outside of the box only gets cut in a counter-clockwise direction with light pressure toward the center of the box at all times; if you see the drywall bending during the cut - STOP cutting and back the offending screw(s) off some to avoid a blow-out at the end of the cut.
Enjoy!
Jim
One factor that could be important, since you're talking about a basement, is moisture. If you hang the drywall vertically, if the bottom gets wet it will wick up and potentially ruin the whole piece. If you hang the drywall horizontally, you have a space between boards (you can even put a real space between hidden by a chair rail) and you have more protection from water going all the way up.
Just something I saw in TOH magazine this month
That tip alone would be enough for me to cancle the TOH magazine LOL! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
wow...a board can wick up the full 8'? From what I've seen in flood conditions (our office building had the basement flood a 1' up last year) was that they came in and cut out only the bottom 2' of the wall and patched it from there.FYI, I'm using steel studs and densarmor boards (In case I didn't mention that) so am definitely trying to reduce issues of a high moisture area.
I can't imagine how it could possibly wick that far.
Thanks for the tips. Just picked up the Rotozip tonight. Feels a bit odd buying a one-trick pony like this, but will undoubtedly save me a lot of swearing if I were to hand cut it all. ;o)I have a bunch of a/v plastic boxes (speaker, cat-6, coax) and a handful of switch boxes, but most of the outlet boxes in the basement are the square boxes with a rectangular, centered, beveled plate for the actual outlet. Any ideas on how to best trip those out? I was thinking of screwing the top of the wallboard, trim out the center of the opening with the rotozip, then shim the bottom of the wallboard out 1/2" and then freeform the outside edge of the bevel (about 1/4" larger than the inside opening.)
Edited 4/14/2008 9:45 pm ET by darrel
Ha ha, I knew he'd buy it!
That earlier post about the butt taper... You can make yourself some scrappy plywood deals that will create a tapered joint at the butts.
Hang the sheets right on by a stud (going vert) and out in the middle put yourself about an 8" wide piece of 1/2" ply or osb with two 3/16" strips on each side. Got a table saw? There's your next tool purchase.
Looks like this: [[[[[_________]]]]]] So there's a void in the middle. Butt the sheets there and screw the edges. It'll create a valley you can bed tape into...
Another suggestion I think MSmith had--rotozip out the whole inside of the box first, then 'hop' outside and cut around the perimeter while the box is in view. That's a good idea to get the feel of it. Use the tools air exhaust to blow the dust out of the box too.
Have fun!
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
I have a bunch of a/v plastic boxes (speaker, cat-6, coax) and a handful of switch boxes, but most of the outlet boxes in the basement are the square boxes with a rectangular, centered, beveled plate for the actual outlet. Any ideas on how to best trip those out? I was thinking of screwing the top of the wallboard, trim out the center of the opening with the rotozip, then shim the bottom of the wallboard out 1/2" and then freeform the outside edge of the bevel (about 1/4" larger than the inside opening.)
Huh?
Sounds like you need to pull the coverplate off the box that houses the wiring, then cut around, then find a new coverplate that will go over your sheetrock?"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
Here's a photo that better explains it:
View Image
It's a square box, but a single, rectangular outlet/face plate.I think my method will work, but thought I'd check to see if anyone had a better method.
Edited 4/14/2008 10:12 pm ET by darrel
Hey, Mike, there's that deadly mud ring. <G>They also come in plastic flavor.
whaaaaaaa ?mudring !Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Someone else mentioned drywall wicking dampness from the basement floor--the guy I work with often puts 3/4" tall by 1/2" thick strips of wood on the bottom of the walls and sets the drywall on those. Concerning a Roto-zip--just be careful you don't nick your electrical wires! Our church hung drywall in a Katrina-damaged house and nicked almost all the wires--the electrician was not happy.
>
Concerning a Roto-zip--just be careful you don't nick your electrical wires! Our church hung drywall in a Katrina-damaged house and nicked almost all the wires--the electrician was not happy.<
There are only two possible reasons for nicking any wires with a RotoZip.
1) Laziness or 2) Ignorance.
I can help with the ignorance option.
Step one: Before the drywall sheet is hung, every box needs to be inspected and the wires tucked neatly to the rear of the box - no wires within 1" of the front edge of the box. If plastic boxes are used, I cut the depth setting nubs off of the box with a utility knife at the same time as inspecting the wires.
At each box which will be covered by the current sheet - measure for center of box record dimensions on floor or seam area; inspect wires - tuck back if needed; cut off the nubs.
Step two: Adjust the foot on the Rotozip - I generally use thickness of drywall + 1/2" of exposed bit. So for 1/2" drywall - there would be 1" of bit extending past the foot. One adjustment lasts for the life of the bit.
With 1" bit extension, 1" "no wire zone" at the box face, 1/2" drywall - it is now physically impossible to nick any wires while cutting a box opening. You will miss them all by at least 1/2".
Ignorance is no longer a valid reason for wire damage - there is only one option left........
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
You forgot skill
I've had the same problems with the guide point melting through the boxes. Probably a dull bit though.
Dull bits will get you every time -- you have to exert too much pressure to advance the cut and totally loose the ability to feel the box.
I have melted a few through the boxes also. Invariably with a dull bit.
I wish they made the Guidepoint bits out of solid cabide like the tile burrs - might last a little longer. I would pay extra at least once to try them!
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
darrel...
32 sheets is enough to invest in a Rotozip
another tool i like is the Butt Taper
i'd lay them horizontal and land the butts between studs , the way ButtTaper recommends
and i'd use 8 ' sheets because you're working alone
the Butt Taper gives great results on butt joints
we're also a big fan of fiberglass mesh & Durabond 90 for first coat
8' boards railroaded using Butt-Tapers in a basement ?
this is one of those 9 ways to skin a dead cat things, but man i wouldn't bother with that.
i guess i've done so much commercial 9' vertical 5/8"rock over metal studs that some additional vertical joints to spackle don't bother me.
and how is it easier to railroad boards working alone as a rookie ?
carpenter in transition
I don't think anyone suggesting that he lay 8'boards horizontally. Basements and commercial buildings are applications where vertical applications make sense, a lot of the time. It rarely makes sense in new residential work. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
darrel...
32 sheets is enough to invest in a Rotozip
another tool i like is the Butt Taper
i'd lay them horizontal and land the butts between studs , the way ButtTaper recommends
and i'd use 8 ' sheets because you're working alone
the Butt Taper gives great results on butt joints
we're also a big fan of fiberglass mesh & Durabond 90 for first coat
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
carpenter in transition
tim..... i'm lazy
i'd use my butt taper and lay them horizontal, you'll probaly have to rip the top sheet anyway ( maybe 7'-6 to 7'-9 ceilings ? )
i'd have one long joint, one corner at the ceiling ( unless it's a dropped ceiling )
and depending on the size of the basement maybe one or two butt joints in each wall
with the butt taper, they'd be nice joints
and it's easier to hang your boards horizontally, especially with steel studs ( smaller target ).... no joints on the studs... they work better with joints between the studs
if you hang vertically, you'll have one joint every 4'
so.... we don't hang for a living , we only do it when we have small jobs
but , you really oughta look into the Butt TaperMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
but , you really oughta look into the Butt Taper
did you smile as you typed this ?
carpenter in transition
Which direction do you hang with the Mooney Wall?
Edited 4/14/2008 7:03 pm by splintergroupie
My Rotozip and I have never been particularly friendly and I haven't used it since I got my Fein Multimaster. I can't imagine using the Rotozip for cutting out boxes as described when remodeling when you are replacing 'rock but still have wire (some times a lot) in the boxes. In that case, I generally measure as to where the box is then drill in with a dull masonry bit and then use the Multimaster to cut the outline of the box. Probably much slower than using the Rotozip - except if you would have to rewire after taking all the insulation off a wire in the box...Of course, the Multimaster is a couple of hundred more than a Rotozip, but this may one of those cases in "you get what you pay for" as the Multimaster has proven to be a very handy tool. So if you have a tool lust, maybe this could rationalize it...
horizontal... the board hangers will typically use 12' sheetsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hang vertically.Get rotozip. If your like me the rotozip may give you problems. I screwed up a couple of boxes in the beginning,hit the mounting tab and went off the box. I don't rock anymore ,retired. Try this way for a beginner, Mark the center of the box before hanging the sheet. Hang the sheet,start rotozip INSIDE the box instead of outside.Cut the inside first then you can easily see the outside.Make sure wires are pushed back. This may be silly to a guy that does it every day, I never did it for long so I use the easiest method for me.
Steel studs ,good idea.You can use 1 1/2" studs to save room and then use 1/2" channel at mid point for strength. Screw a scrap piece from stud to foundation wall for a brace at 4'-0" centers,more rigidity.Screw into open face of stud first or the stud will twist.
mike
You could try these http://www.simplemanproducts.com/boxit.html if you haven't done alot of drywall.
You know, I didn't even pick up on the one thing you said that's not quite right.
There is a way to get 12' sheets into your basement. Cut the back and fold the sheet.
Seems like it should work. I haven't tried it - I picked that up from FHB tips 'n' tricks. I'd probably reinforce the fold with some sort of backing. I'd definitely try it!
If you go go horizontal you and cope you inside corners so clean you can just caulk them.
Hang the first wall taping the seam to three coats. Hang the intersecting wall after coping with a clean fresh blade cut to abut the first wall. Disregard the length of the piece, let the length fall between studs. Panel adhesive and screw 5" ply to the open edge with 2 2/2" left to affix the next piece. Run the length of the ply up 6" high to catch the overlapping piece. Bevel the edges of adjoining rock, top with Durabond and mesh.
Avoid 4 way corners. Cope the inside corners around the room.
For electrical use old work boxes. A 1/2" spade, a knife, and a saw and you'll have exact cuts and little dust, plus flexibility for later changes.
If you're not a drywall finisher how can your inside corners look better than a clean straight caulked line.
If you take the suggestion of back cutting a 12' remember you want the break to fall on a stud.
Coping DW?????????????????.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
What I mean is sliding the to be hung adjoining piece over to the previously hung piece and transferring the plane of the first to the second via a level compass.
Coping.
Do what makes sense in your case. I'd probably hang it vert as well. If you want a new tool I'd get a MM or rolling scaffolding since it's good for more than just sheetrock.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.