Sorry guys , I didn’t mean to start a sh*t storm on that one. I guess that thead has been bumped, so just to wrap up let me say thanks for all you responses. Who did what , when , and , where was never the point. I just want to know that the post we all read are accurate and true. I have always believed that honesty is the best policy [call me old fashion I guess], despite the fact that that outlook has cost me dearly on more than one occaision.
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I hope you post pix of your work in the future. Seeing the pix and being able to ask questions is one of the best reasons to come here.
I'll try to post some pictures , but I'm pretty sure that I'm not that computer savy. I never really had that much use for these gizzmos, I'm much more comfortable with a hammer in my hand, and if I can't "sweeten it" with a block plane I'm lost.
You were savy enough to try to tear down someone else.
Time now to get savy enough to post someting positive your self. Eventually you can get the hang of it and of picture attachments ( be patient) but meanwhile, you can joint in other conversations here. A man with all your experience has got to have something to add to help out the DIYs and HOs or even a younger carpentre
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Some people need to be knocked down a peg or two. Since I am much closer to the situation than you are, I will reserve the right to make that determination.
Perhaps I will post more often, we'll see how it goes. I usualy find that the response that I would like to make to a thread has already been stated, or that by the time I read the thread , the discussion has taken a turn down a road that I would rather not travel.
As for DIY'S and HO ---If they want it done in a professional manner then they should hire a professional to do the job. My skill and experience did not come cheap. Tuition at the college of had knocks is an investment that I made in my own future. How many dentists do you know who will give you free advice on how to fix your own teeth?
Solid points
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
A comment regarding your third paragraph: You're entitled to feel that way, but as a HO and DIY'er, I'm awfully glad not everyone here shares that opinion. I read here a lot, and have learned a ton, so I say thank you to all the pros who have been donating their countless hours.
As a HO and DIY'R I can see wherre a little free advice might come in handy. But would you feel comfortable giving some one the information that they would need to cut you out of the {lucrative} equation in your particular field of endeavor? One of the biggest problems I have when dealing HO is having to justify my professional opinion about a carpentry situation. Folks ask for that opinion because they know that I know what I'm talking about , and then for any number of reason begin to question my solution. I really know when I'm in trouble when their response begins with"What if we just......"
Well, that is just what these forums are about - discussing the pros and cons of different ways of doing something. I learn most when somebody shows a different way and ustifies that method with information why.I don't think you are likely to lose any business because you helped somebody here understand a better way of doing something, or kept their house from falling down on them.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My business card reads: "Contractor and Consultant"I enjoy providing DIY-ers with advice (albeit for a fee), on the details, so they can get results approximating those of a pro. I often work with HO's for a few hours, laying things out, and seeing if they get the hang of it. Often they do pretty well, and just as often they say, "maybe you can take it from here." Either way, they get a little more appreciation for the finer points of the trades.Edited to add: I never worry about loosing work from giving advice, the goodwill generated creates more work in the longrun. There is a large gap between DIY and Pro, the niche bridging the gap is not exploited enough by contractors (I do wonder about insurance issues at times when working with HO's though).
Edited 3/13/2005 5:18 pm ET by basswood
We do a lot of the same thing. They all complete the framing and rough stuff.. then we come in clean and just do the fine finishing. A good part of my biz is selling DIY plans to HO's, and pro plans to Architects and Contractors.
I really believe that our trade suffered from secrecy during the years from the 40's to present. The craftsmen didn't want to share what they knew for fear of training their competition. Taught them enough to get the job done-but kept much under their hat to keep the advantage.
All the guys that worked with me over the years-I taught them everything I knew. I can't trim every house-or build every deck and business is tight enough without them being half taught.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Do you specialize in gazebos, arbors and pergolas (as I gather from the name) or do you have a much broader brush?Edit. Nevermind, I just clicked on your weblink. Niced stuff (I suspected as much, from your posts). I just had a landscape architect as me to bid on doing the kind of work you do. A unique mix of framing and fine finish carpentry (at the same time--similar to timber-framing). I mostly do trim carpentry. The attached photo is as close as I have come to your specialty. Maybe more will come.
Edited 3/13/2005 6:15 pm ET by basswood
Yeah.. it's about the size of a broom. We sell a line of DIY plans through stores like LeeValleyTools, Big assortment off the website. That's one side of the biz.
The other is a contractor network. We tend to stay away from Gazebos-too competetive a market, but those guys do upscale pergolas, decks, fences etc. Often these have curves or glass and some pretty exclusive details.
They are all independants, so they choose what they specialize in and the work has their flavour-but we supply designs if they need and the client pays directly, but mainly we give them a repetoir to use that took 15 years to develop and we do a good chunk of their marketing.
I write for a Canadian DIY mag, so that's how we often connect with really skilled diy guys who want a hand in the project, but they want it to look like the magazine shots, so I do the design-they frame and we trim.
Drop into the website and have a peek if you are curious.
DIY guys have been good to us, and some of them are turning pro too. I know a lawyer that spends more time woodworking than he does lawyering.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Photo of the closest I have come to a "GardenStructure" (note the disk in the sunburst is cut out & backlit at night by the porch light).
I see brilliance there Bass, keep designing. It's not a god given talent... just like anything "the more you do it-the talent grows". That is a gorgeous entrance you did, and not the easiest way to do it. You have right to be proud of it... really is great.
Here's an entrance from when I was doing trim for a living...
L
http://www.gardenstructure.com/renovations_woodwork/entrance_zoom.jpg
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Edited 3/13/2005 8:56 pm ET by Lawrence
Edited 3/13/2005 8:57 pm ET by Lawrence
As nice as that pediment (geeze, I was trying to show off, but maybe I'm just showing my ignorance<G>)is, how's it fit with the rest of the house?I've respected yur work for a while, but that's not what this thread is about...it's about misrepresentation, ya know, kinda like me saying I designed and/or built your stuff just cuz I lived in the same province and had a splinter up my butt...LOL Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Would love to show you that house Bill, turn of the century 5,000 sq' home on Lake Simcoe. That entrance pretty much matches the Tennis Court. House is all wood interior-so that's what we did in the guest house. We worked the same style trim through the guest house-it has a glass roof that opens. Nice place. The owners travelled the world when I was working there (I was 24), and they asked me to house sit for 6 months.
Lots of fun, but when it was over (3 years for that project), I didn't have a company-that's what happens when you have a job that lasts 3 years. No leads, and all their friends assume they can't afford you. That's when I decided I would specialize in jobs that last 2-3 weeks max-so that I'd have lots of leads. And that I would market constantly.
Now I'll pull it back in context of the thread. I had nearly 75 different people help with that total project-but the design work and prototypes were all mine. The entrance... took 3 days of fiddling. My right hand man at the time "Rob Lowe" was indispensible and truth be known helped out with making the whole thing work. Couldn't have done that project without him. Not in those days. GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
That is some entrance. I've never built-up so many mouldings...someday I'll attempt something of that magnitude.
Thanks Bass, and Jaybird... is a good way to give yourself a headach. If you want to play with that kind of thing I reccomend learning some Cad... easier to do it on the screen to get proportions-rather than building it 3 times from sketches on a napkin like I was doing in those days. Good thing it was T&M.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Nice stuff Lawrence!
ATTENTION FELLOW BREAKTIME MEMBERS:<!----><!---->
If you`d like to discuss topics other than home building, come on down to the Woodshed Tavern. Great bunch of guys and gals letting off a little steam about everything and anything. Its not a special club, but.....as of Monday, March 14, the Tavern folder will go behind an access wall. Only those who request access to this folder by contacting [email protected] will be able to view and participate in discussions there.
Glad to see everyone getting along again. I was just wondering, who is the one that has the ability to kill the thread, that discussion was most interesting.
Who has the power? The black Helo of course.View Image
Who dares wins.
Edited 3/13/2005 10:38 pm ET by Gunner
I tried to email you, it bounced back..it's interesting how cyber-space can put up that Wizard of Oz curtain...thanks for reaffirming what I thought I knew...my poseur radar is still working<G>Hang around, sounds like you have a lot to offer. Don't worry, we can fix that later!
That's what I was thinking, 'Snort.I don't remember where I got the feeling, but it was there.Stick around Jay, and loosen up. The whole world could know all your "work secrets", and they would still need you to do the job right.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
not familiar with that term "poseur" ?
please give me your definition.
someone who presents themself like something they ain't...and I'm not talking about you.Makes me feel especially good that Luka's got the same feeling, cause I know he's never posed on nothin... Don't worry, we can fix that later!
............I think you guys are letting this get the best of you.
Gossip is taking hold here.
Time to watch Hollywood tonite or something ain't it?
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
? Don't worry, we can fix that later!
can I ask what thread are you all refering to?
Don't be making me sound perfect, because I ain't. And I am liable to not live up to it on purpose, (for the umpteen-millionth time), just to spite you.LOLThis was not a big deal. I just got a hinky feeling that all was not as it appeared to be, and remembered it. I can't even remember where, or what the subject was. It wasn't that important. Just that the feeling was strong enough I remembered it.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
I for one would like to see more of cloud's houses... they are cool.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
You don't have anything to apologize for. All you did was call someone out for lying. If more people were as straight forward as you, this world would be a better place.
Welcome aboard.
Free the Sancho!
Jim... how's life? (BTW Sancho got sprung a couple of days ago-you still have your banner up!)
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Doing fine, Lawrence. How are things going for you?Free the Sancho!