There have been a few discussions going on about how much and what tools are furnished. Quite a bit of feed back really , so I thought we might put out our thoughts on what we percieve the two together . This in my mind is the way I see it together ;
I always thought it was short sided to think about working for one employer although many may be happy. I think the deal changes with tools and abilities. Working for wages is still a business deal . Decisions must be made same as any business .
A man than can do several trades well .
A man that is tooled to do at least one trade well
A man that drives a work truck with racks and boxes
A man that works alone , or leads , taking on responsebility
I could go on and on , but a hand may be worth more to one GC than to another . Some examples above are just a few that separate a lot of hands.
My suggestion would be to “make a deal ” , until you have sold your talents to the best or highest bidder . One GC may need something totally different than another one at different times of the year even. There are tons of examples it seems , but theres niches. I say there is no set labor price .
Yall have the floor for your own imput .
Tim Mooney
Replies
I got my ARP mag a couple of months ago and in it I found a very interresting article. It rated companies to work for by how the company treats the employes.
Off my memory is training given , accepting part time employees , profit sharing , child care , and letting a longer lunch hour for grocery shopping. These are just a few again . John Deere was rated #1. Should we be taking notes?
One of the top reasons is profit sharing .
Tim Mooney
I think as employers that are in business of repeat such as remodleing which is definately a favorite trade here , they should look for the hands that take the work to another level of the owner not being involved. Ill say it again ;
Look for the hands that can take the business to another level by not requireing your time to oversee the jobs. Before tradesmen become subs , they are hands working for someone. If the deal was sweet enough they might have stayed . After all most tradesmen love doing the work . They become business men for obvious reasons. Training becomes more benificial when the owner thinks they will stay when they have made the pot sweet enough and profit is shared. Dont think about it and you might get to compete against them .
Tim Mooney
Tim I believe you are saying that employers (for the most part) don't put enough thought into deciding what their employees are worth, to them, and then making sure they pay it. I certainly agree with you there. I have worked for a number of employers and they never thought about how they were going to manage without me until after I had left.
John
Im trying to look at both sides. I think it should be a negogiations process between both of them or another GC. I think that hands that dont think they are being treated fairly should set up interviews with other employers. They will either move on or they will understand better so that maybe they will be happy. One should happen .
Ive had hands I would not train and others I bent over backwards on . Ive seen lots of times hands are missing in action that are not happy. I think its a loss . Anytime a hand leaves that has been with a company for a good while , there is going to be a hole to fill with knowledge if nothing else to be considered. The owner ends up with zero for his trouble , but not the hand. Hes gained experience and any training he recieved.
Tim Mooney
Anytime a hand leaves that has been with a company for a good while , there is going to be a hole to fill with knowledge if nothing else to be considered. The owner ends up with zero for his trouble , but not the hand. Hes gained experience and any training he recieved.
I disagree.
What about a hand who is motivated and smart who wants to learn.
But Boss just underpays him and treats him poorly and tells him he doesn't have the experience, Yada yada yada, to justify more money but this kid is doing s foremans job and doing it good when the boss lets him.
Sure he has had OJT but not from the boss.
Boss just tells him what he has done wrong, not what to do next.
When this kid leaves (and he will) we will be hard pressed to replace him with anyone with his smarts.
Until this industry gets it's collective head out of it's arse, quality help is going to get scarcer and scarcer.
I'm not picking on anyone here, you guys seem to be the cream.
But there is a schit load of milk underneath going bad fast!
Happy New year!!Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
I dont understand why you disagree.
Didnt the owner lose ?
Tim Mooney
I guess my point is that the owner is making a profit off of this guy and not really putting anything "into" it.
The kid is getting some experience, but is missing out on a great learnig opportunity.(The boss really does know stuff, just unwilling to share it until after the fact).
Kid has said to him at least a half a dozen times "If you want me to be foreman then pay me foremans wage"
Boss always comes back with "but you don't have the experience"
But He is doing the job!!!!!
Owner hasn't lost yet, but he will when this guy leaves.Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
The kid is worth more to another GC . At least you think so. Sounds like he needs an interview . As Sonny said his labor is all hes got to sell . The only way the boy loses is if he stays , but thats his responsebility . He knows hes worth more .
There was a poster in another thread that does several different things . Works for someone else . He also mentioned his pay. Hes not satisfied now hes read the thread. Its time he moved on , if hes not getting paid right . I know how much one man can turn on a kitchen doing it all well or a bathroom .
Full blown kitchen remodels according to Lowes, run 7 to 12 grand. Bathrooms run 4 to 8. We wont pick numbers , but the ball park mentioned is some money for someone that can do it all!!!! If that guy leaves the owner loses big time ! The only way a GC makes money is finishing contracts hes got started with no complaints. Men that can make that happen are a real shortage that will work by the hour. That makes them valuable.
Tim Mooney