Seth Godin on The Top Five Mistakes Entrepreneurs Make When They Market
I just discovered that Seth Godin one of my favorite all time authors and lecturers on business marketing and branding wrote what he calls a “riff” over on the WorkHappy.net: Killer Resources for Entrepreneurs bog site called The Top Five Mistakes Entrepreneurs Make When They Market .
All five are great points but in particular I like: #5 Failure to measure. All this is worthless if you don’t test and measure relentlessly. Do what works. Kill what doesn’t. Repeat.
I think it amazing how often (maybe 99%of the time) that contractors make no effort at all to research and really track what works for them in the way of marketing.
Replies
Do you ever create a post that does not include a link?
Or one that acually makes a valid point?
Sorry Jerrald, but I see way too many of your posts here that seem to ask ambiguous questions on less than truly defined topics. IE: Topics that you link to rather than topics that you have had some experience with recently that cause you to want to actually inquire of other's mindsets as to how they may be dealing with this topic currently.
Uhhhhhhh.............what was the question?
[email protected]
Sorry eric but I sooooooooo disagree with you!!!
Jerrald is one of the few people that make us walk away thinking how to do better and he always does it in a positive way.
HE's always here to be helpful.
What a weird thing for you to say to him!
You know, not to generalize, but the 29% of people who still support President Bush are the ones who love to pronounce themselves more patriotic than the rest of us. But just saying you're patriotic is like saying you have a big one. If you have to say it, chances are it's not true.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
We've had very different in person experiences with Jerrald.
That's all I'm going to say.
[email protected]
We've had very different in person experiences with Jerrald.That's all I'm going to say.<<<<Well by posting what you did here "made it personal" to everyone on this site...which is why I think it was pretty rude. Maybe say what you REALLY think here then and clue us in other wise you just come off sounding rude is all I'm gonna say...If its personal keep it that way...but thats not what you did.
The end.
You know, not to generalize, but the 29% of people who still support President Bush are the ones who love to pronounce themselves more patriotic than the rest of us. But just saying you're patriotic is like saying you have a big one. If you have to say it, chances are it's not true.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
yeah, it was rude. I was actually going to delete it but my shower took longer than the time it took for Jerrald and you to read it.
I WORKED a long hard day today.
Had to kick a dog.
And inspite of being rude, I don't take back my words.
I'm an honest person. If someone has difficulty with that, then I don't know what else to say.[email protected]
EricPaulson - "
Do you ever create a post that does not include a link?"
Eric do you have some kind of problem with me and the way I write all of a sudden? You've got my email, email me and maybe we'll work it out.
Yeah I do write lots of posts without links and I could have written this one just stealing the text from the WorkHappy.net: Killer Resources for Entrepreneurs bog and not given that site any credit for the text and violated two copyrights in the process too. Would that have made things better for you?
"Or one that acually makes a valid point?"
You have just got to be #### kidding me! Do us both a favor Eric and put me on ignore and you wont have to be bothered with my vapid pointless posts.
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My point is Jerrald, that you rarely if ever post from a point of experience.
Your posts are pontifications. I did not, and won't say that I've never gotten anything out of your posts here.
Most people here post with comments and questions about real life experiences and difficulties they are having.
Lot's of us post pics and diaries of work we have done.
If you have read something interesting lately; great. Tell us that you suggest reading it and tell us why. Perhaps include an experience in your work or life that relates to something you learned or related to in the book.
Ah, skip it.
Did you loose my #?[email protected]
You're almost right Eric. All his posts include a link, and they also contain different color text and bold text. And it all serves to make a point. It's like reading a textbook sometimes. And just like school, some of it is over my head, but I learn something everytime from someone who is smarter than I."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Well..I think simply keeping your name out there in the public is probably the single most important thing you can do for an established company. It amazes me how some commercials are just horrible but even just seeing their name over and over is really what does it...or even good commercials like the one of that prehistoric hip kinda guy...I almost forget what company that is but I love the commercial...in fact I like it so much I don't even relate what its saying to the product...how odd is that? So does that make it an effective commercial? Its fun to watch but doesn't make me buy into what they're selling...makes me buy into wishing it was a movie...Oh yeh...its for Geico. Isn't it? Hmmm
To me plastering your name around town is the most effective thing you can do...and oh yeh...keep a good reputation because people will start talking about you the more they see your name in lights.
Another thing...Exaggerate..it always seems to work. as long as your out there toot your horn as loud as you can.
"The Rolling Stones"...The worlds greatest Rock N Roll band!
Howard Stern, " The King of all media"!
Know who dubbed them that?
They did! And it stuck and it grew on people enough to believe it.
The both had a good product they claimed was great...so it becomes greater.
So...always been in their face.
Keep a good rep
And tell them you are better than the best at what you do.
And of course be creative...step out of the box.
More of the same is...yawwwwnnnn...boring.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 4/5/2007 9:45 pm ET by andybuildz
Edited 4/5/2007 9:51 pm ET by andybuildz
Edited 4/5/2007 9:54 pm ET by andybuildz
Howard Stern, " The King of all media"!
Okaaay, not seeing that one. Maybe I live a sheltered life.
Mike
Insert initially amusing but ultimately annoying catch phrase here.
Howard Stern, " The King of all media"!Okaaay, not seeing that one. Maybe I live a sheltered life.Mike<<<<Mike
Its not like I mean you have to like him...my point was that he dubbed himself that and when the press refers to him more than half the time they refer to him as King Of All Media.
Same with the Stones.
The Worlds Greatest R&R Band.
They made that up...no one else.For me.......I've always had a hard time tooting my own horn. Thats a big mistake I think.
Although...in a book thats become my "favorite" of all time was one that Jerrald turned me onto that I can't ever stop thinking and talking about.
"From Good To Great" by Jim Collins where Mr.Collins talks about how some of the least flashy and low key people have gone on to become the smartest and most successful entrepreneurs of all time. I think Bill Gates comes to mind at the moment although he does have a product that didn't need a whole lot of sales pitching....did it?http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM Edited 4/5/2007 10:25 pm ET by andybuildz
Edited 4/5/2007 10:26 pm ET by andybuildz
It's funny...this morning I was thinking it was about time to re-read Good to Great. I probably learned about the book here from one of Jerrald's "annoying" links, bought it, read it, and convinced my boss to read it. At the time we were a somewhat struggling design-build firm, and had just laid almost all our carpenters off.
I got the three principals to all read it and we did a book review and talked about Collins' major points, including the HedgeHog concept. It surprised me when I found out we all had very different ideas for being in this company. We did manage to define a Hedgehog concept, maybe it was a BFAG, to design, build, and remodel the best houses on the southern Maine coast.
At the time it did indeed seem audacious. Now, a few years later, I'd say we're nearly there. Would we have gotten here without the book? Maybe. Eventually. But I really think the narrow focus that meeting brought is what got us to this point, and will take us to be the premier builder in southern Maine.
So, thanks Jerrald. I'll check out this new book.
andybuildz - "To me plastering your name around town is the most effective thing you can do...and oh yeh...keep a good reputation because people will start talking about you the more they see your name in lights."
While I agree with you to some extent in that Geico is memorable and everyone knows what the company's stands for "inexpensive car insurance so easy a ..." but the point that Seth Godin makes in all of his books and lectures is that that story or message isn't that important to everyone in that some people want extremely fast personalized claim settlement so they end up liking Progressive message better.
Or perhaps even Amica message even more than that? Have you ever even heard of Amica? Most likely not, they really don't advertise much at all. The only way you hear about them is through someone who has Amica who talks about how great they were in handling their claim. They only want the clients who want Amica and are very picky in who they will insure. They give their clients a story about great service that their users then pass on to their friends and relatives Generally speaking the only people who hear about Amica are people who would pay more for Amica. As a result very little of their marketing efforts and money go to waste.
While I think Gieco is one of the largest car insurers just how many people who hear their TV messages and see their ads end up going with Geico? 1 out 5? 1 out of 10? 1 out of 100? Most of he time the money they spend on marketing is wasted on people who will never buy from them.
This is just what Seth Godin talks about in his book Permission Marketing : Turning Strangers Into Friends And Friends Into Customers ( and I've linked to it in bold text just to piss off Eric mind you, but I digress...). A company like Amica is in essence gaining permission to market to a certain kind of client that they want by giving their existing clients a story that they will pass on to people with the same world view that they have about responsive service. Their marketing dollars aren't wasted on on the people who are shopping for cheap simple easy to get car insurance who will never buy from Amica.
This is the same thing I was talking to you about a while back about how we try and target our marketing. We actually don't want our name spread all around town because while Bedford Katonah is a great market for us not everyone in Bedford Katonah is really a good fit for what we offer. We really only want to talk to the ones who are.
In fact think of this possibility too. Someone sees our name spread all around town and on a chance calls us up to put in one of those fit any pitch stair baluster systems you sometimes see in the big box stores. They then find out we don't do that kind of work and they get all pissed off at us and then start telling people we're too 'snooty' to do that kind of work. In that case by spreading our name all around town we marketed to the wrong kind of person and the effort wasn't just wasted it hurt us too.
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True but to me I would still think a mass mailing or whatever tool you're using in advertising still works best if you "target" your own audience. Not JUST a mass mailing but rather a targeted one like what you and I were talking about. For example when you and I were talking about how I was going to target that wealthy area up the hill from me. I would still flood it continuously and continue to have them see my name repeatedly BUT always with them knowing exactly what I'm all about and not just another renovations/restoration company.
When I spoke about that hip caveman ad for Geico? I was agreeing with you saying that even though I think its a great ad it doesn't make me care about Geico...or even remember who was putting that ad out.Look at The Cocran organization (Johnny). they flood the TV during the Judge Joe Brown TV court shows. You KNOW he's making money from those ads and you know why. He's targeted his own people. The black community that watches Court TV. You have to admit thats good marketing.
And Donald Trump...With the Apprentice....I wonder if that helps or hurts his credibility. You know that's advertising to a large degree.http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 4/5/2007 11:43 pm ET by andybuildz
When large (as in publicly traded) companies run an advertising campaign they are not only trying to attract customers, they are also trying to attract shareholders. More people buying their stock helps their stock price, which is their ultimate aim. Ever see an ad for an F-16 or F-22? Ever try to buy one?
More people buying their stock helps their stock price, which is their ultimate aim. Ever see an ad for an F-16 or F-22?<<<<
And how bout' all the drug ads...half of them we have no clue as to what they do other than make you wanna take your clothes off in a field of flowers...that's gotta be for the stock holders too...lol
Ambien....zzzzzzzzzzz
You know, not to generalize, but the 29% of people who still support President Bush are the ones who love to pronounce themselves more patriotic than the rest of us. But just saying you're patriotic is like saying you have a big one. If you have to say it, chances are it's not true.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Jerrald,
Not that you need to hear this, especially from a neophyte, but I appreciate your posts. You are one of many who offer their time and their knowledge for the benefit of others.
I can't say I track my marketing efforts very much due in large part to the fact that I am a one man show and don't have a media based marketing campaign.
However, the point is valid "Do what works. Kill what doesn't. Repeat."
Sometimes it is a simple mantra like this that can get one to examine their business and really make a positive change.
Thanks, Jerrald.
Workhappy.net is also a good resoucre.
If you like Seth, check out WorkHappy's 5 out of 5 stars.
SamT
There are three kinds of people: Predaters, Prey, and Paladins. For the life of me, I can't see why Prey feels safer from predators by disarming and emasculating Paladins.
Long before I discovered just who Seth Godin (another link in bold text intentionally inserted to tick Eric off) was I actually used to see him around from time to time. He the kind of guy who when you see him you don't forget him. And so I'd be in a restaurant in Pleasantville and I'd look around a say hey that's the guy I saw down in Irvington last week. I think either his offices must have been down there or he had a client in the complex we were working in.
Then a couple of years ago on a lark I picked up one of his books in a bookstore and I was hooked.
I linked to the article on WorkHappy.net (and yet another link in bold text intentionally inserted to tick Eric off) because one of the points of blogs and blogging it to spread and share ideas and in this case ideas about business. From his post I don't Eric is very happy at work and maybe not wanting to hear about WorkHappy he chose to take it out on me tonight. But yeah I been all over the blog there since discovering that post by Godin this morning.
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I linked to the article on WorkHappy.net (and yet another link in bold text intentionally inserted to tick Eric off) because one of the points of blogs and blogging it to spread and share ideas and in this case ideas about business. From his post I don't Eric is very happy at work and maybe not wanting to hear about WorkHappy he chose to take it out on me tonight. But yeah I been all over the blog there since discovering that post by Godin this morning.
Interestinly enough Jerrald, the very first link in your initial post has a link to YOUR blog.......................which contains links to ............YOUR "companies'!!
What a surprise!
Can you say selfless promotion? So Taunton made you disable the link on your sig tag and in turn you include a link in half your posts that leads to something that leads to you.
C'mon Jerrald we're not all that simple.
And this chimes right in with what I told you in my email to you.
One thing I did forget to mention.
I got from you exactly what I paid for...............NOTHING![email protected]
Eric,
I know exactly what you mean even if no one esle here does
JohnIf my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.
I'm going to guess that failure to create a business plan is way up there....maybe #1.
blue
"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
blue_eyed_devil - "I'm going to guess that failure to create a business plan is way up there....maybe #1."
Well what Seth Godin was talking about was what he thinks 'The Top Five Mistakes Entrepreneurs Make When They Market' are. That's a little bit different than subect than 'business failure' but certainly one could lead to the other.
But Lack of Planning (which could be taken to mean no business plan) is often cited by many business experts as one of the top 5 or 10 reasons businesses fail.
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I also appreciate your input and the info you bring to the site. The links in my mind are a positive thing. The info you put out I think is more valuable the larger your business gets. DanT
Oh OK....I missed that point.
I'd go back and reread the thread but it's laced with too much personal stuff for my tastes. I tend to read more in the Business thread because the #### for tat stuff doesn't usually rear it's ugly head. I hope you and Eric will let this go. Both of you are great for this forum and I don't see any reason why either of you would want to diminsh yourselves.
I hope both of you stop the digs.
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
I think he missed one, and that is to define their market first.
As an example, a friend of mine ran a painting company, and eventually began doing industrial epoxy floors. Some of the executives of some larger companies where he did the factory floors, had him do their residential garage floors. He told me how he was going to advertise his garage floors at the bowling alley.
We had done work for a mutual client, who had a Viper, and a Corvette in his garage. I asked him if he every saw a Viper or a Corvette in the bowling alley parking lot. Got the deer in the headlights look from him. Far as I know he has not gotten a single lead from the bowling alley adds.
Bowz
Jerrald--- prior to today- i have never heard of seth godin.
also--generally, i won't open a link like the ones you post----If you come across an idea----post the idea--don't expect me to go research a book to get up to speed--just spit out the idea, LOL.
anyhow--- I did look into good old seth--wanted to see what all the fuss was about---------------
basically-- it looks like seth---is his own industry---he seems to be an expert at promoting Seth---but I wouldn't look to him for any amazing revelations or super business secrets. basically-this article would be an example---seth has to continuosly come up with material to fill articles, books etc.---doesn't make any of what he writes really profound----I don't think.
his list of 5--------
1) gratitude.--interesting-why should anybody be particularly greatfull to us---for just doing what we are supposed to do?--interesting--not profound
2)--money----as a substitute for doing----- just filler taking up space in the article
3)marketing---more filler
4)---- listening to other people.
Now THAT to me is the most interesting idea--at least it is what appeals to me the most.
the way i see it---- listening to other people will AT BEST get you conventional results-AT BEST!
If we want completely DIFFERENT results---following the pack is not gonna get us there. this is actually my argument against reading Seth Godin type books------
if we walk into a Borders--one of the largest sections--is the "business/self help" section-------in theory-we are all reading the same books-following the same recycled pablum everyone else is reading---and-a lot of what's written--isn't all that well thought out------it's simply product produced by seth---or gerber--or kyosaki.
also- i think this ties in a bit with what blue says--a failure to have a business plan.
if you write a business plan--and actually implement it-fantastic---really work at it. but--constantly digging through these self help business books, I think, would actually undermine implementing a business plan. It would be like pursuing a stock investing strategy of constantly shifting investments based on what was the hot stock in yesterdays paper.
5)-failure to measure----this i think is the second best out of the 5.
Even if somebody has a miniscule mom and pop outfit like mine-----measuring is superimportant. EVEN if ALL your sales come from word of mouth referalls--measuring is key--because ALL referalls are not the same---ya gotta track WHERE those referalls come from.
Tracking this stuff will tell you" susie smith" has been a goldmine--over the years we have got dozens of projects via "susie smith"--and referalls from the referalls from the referalls----------
so when a call comes in--that is tied in somehow to good old susie----THAT's where our concentration has to be--the susie referalls get priority over joe schmoe referalls--because susie generates proven--and measured results.
Stephen
Edited 4/6/2007 12:02 pm ET by Hazlett
Jerrald,
You really should quit posting and wasting the time of those who don't want to read what you think is good. After all, they can't just click the page down key and ignore what you type.
Besides, everybody knows that it's more impotent to listen to your critics than your fans.SamT
There are three kinds of people: Predaters, Prey, and Paladins. For the life of me, I can't see why Prey feels safer from predators by disarming and emasculating Paladins.