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Yesterday, I was given an official WTC check. I had to wait on line for half an hour, speak to 20 people about things that had nothing to do with being a displaced business owner (the official title I was given), asked if I was on welfare, needed food stamps, grief counselling. Given the opportunity to wait on two more lines (over an hour each) to find out if I was eligible for a free lunch and give all of my personal information to people who didn’t speak English.
Finally, I met with some very nice young ladies from Safe Horizon who were distributing grants from the 9/11 fund, who then gave me a check for $1,500 on the spot. I then had to go through an exit interview before they would let me leave with a guy who spoke broken English and again demanded to know why I didn’t want to be on welfare. All in all, it was a test of tolerance. If you could make it through 3 hours without killing anyone, they give you $1,500. That’s it. And you could have a chicken fingers lunch from the Salvation Army while you wait without proving that you are qualified.
SHG
Replies
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SHG,
sounds like a true test of people skills.Is $1500 it or do you get to go back for more?
Vince
*They would have to pay me a lot more to go through that again. Seriously, that's it. It was a grant to businesses that were closed down. BTW, families of police and fire killed are receiving between $800,000 and $1.5 M from the Widows and Orphans fund. Families of civilians who died are receiving burial expenses and, if eligible, welfare. They started finding bodies again. When it's a cop or firefighter, the whole place stops and they remove the body with respect and fanfare. Civilian bodies were stacked up in a pile and no one even looked.That's all she wrote.SHG
*Do you mean $800,000 and $1.5 M i each family,or spread out over all the families ?Big difference.
*Hey SHG, did you get back in line for seconds??? :)
*You know,That's one thing that kinda pisses me off. Why are we crying for the firemen/policemen so much??? That's their job, to go in and rescue people. No one forced them into the job, no one held a gun to their head(s) and said, "Son, you will be a fireman". it seems that the disparity in compensation for the firemen vs civilians says to me "your life is worth so much more than the Average Joe, so we're gonna make you millionaires while everyone else has to get in line". They (fireman and policemen) have insurance just for this purpose. I wonder if they need to pay for it or is it one of their benefits?? I on the other hand, am paying $1500/year so that my family is protected. I guess I'm not as valuable as they are.And another thing......why is it such a huge tragedy when one of them falls in the line of duty....let me rephrase that....why do they get 20 minutes on the evening news to cover their funeral, their family's reaction, etc. How much coverage will I get??? (I don't mean to portray me as vain, but THAT RISK GOES WITH THE TERRITORY!!!!)There was a terrible fire around here a few year's ago and 6 fireman lost their lives. "Yes", it was a senseless loss, "yes" there are quite a # of kids without fathers now, but we're still hearing about benefits/road races for them. C'mon, they took that job knowing someday they might not return.I know some of you will respond that I'm heartless, callous and unsympathetic, but what law did I not see that said these people are next to God since they dies in the line of fire.I'm gonna shut up now....I've said too much...
*We love heroes, that's all. Not neccesarily rational.By the way, was that tax free?
*Recko, I'm going to put in my 2 cents, not to argue with you or tell you you're wrong, but just cause I got an extra 2 cents lying around today. YOu're right, they (police & fire) do seem to get a lot of attention when they die in the line of duty. So does the military, depending on the circumstances (look at that CIA casualty for example). I'm not sure I agree with the amount of the settlement, or whatever it's being called. They do/should have life insurance, and it certainly should cover line-of-duty death. Check your life policy - it probably has a disclaimer for acts of war, so would you have been able to collect in the WTC instance? But I don't have a problem with all the fanfare and hoopla and etc. They're doing a job that I wouldn't, primarily because I don't want to face the same risks. So when it comes time to send them to the big fire station in the sky, why not do it in style? I don't pay any attention to the ceremonies because I'm not interested, but it only lasts for a few minutes and then it's back to the rest of the news. Yeh, you're right that no one forced them to be firefighters, and they could have refused to go into the building. But they were doing their duty, and I can't fault them for that. What if they had refused to go in? Would they be charged with dereliction of duty and forced off the roster? Wouldn't we all support that response?
*recko,I kind of understand your feelings but for me its not that they died doing there job but how they died and who killed them. It wasnt a fire set by a couiple of kids. It was by foriegners attacking our country. The same could be said for the Pearl Harbor survivors. After all they were military on a military base. yet we memorialize them why. Because of what they survived not they were just doing their job or actually not doing their job cuz they were caught unawares. But again why they died and how they died or in other words the circumstances surounding their death.
*Hey Doug... Blah Blah and your poor opinion!
*Yo "ace" -How about taking your i own poor opinion and Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah ?Doug's a regular here, and he's entitled to his opinion. Your smart assed little crack is not helpful or needed. If you want to disagree with someone, feel free. Just do it in a more civilized manner.
*I've got nothing against the cops and firefighters being taken care of. I do, however, think that all victims should be treated with respect, particularly from the same cops and firefighters who are working at the site and want us all to honor their brothers and sisters. It's a two way street.It's a shame if this turns into another case of taking care of your own, and not giving a damn about others. It doesn't have to be one or the other; there's enough respect, not to mention money, to go around.SHG
*Ron,you state my feelings about Ace's reply exactly.I respect Firefighters and cops but it does seem out of balance that they should be treated any differently then all the other victims.Vince
*I have no problem whatever with the way the firefighters and police are being treated. What I do have a problem with is why the hell the rest of the victims are being told to go on welfare, and worse. Hundreds of millions of dollars collected for them. Billions. And they are 'given help with applying for welfare'. WTF is THAT ???!!?We aren't talking a million or two, needing to be divided between a million people. We are talking mega millions of dollars needing to be divided between less than 10.000 families. What, maybe 200.000 if you count all the outside people affected.Why is this an argument of civil servants vs civilians, instead of a lot of outrage at all the money the 'charity orgs' collected and are not giving to the people they 'collected' it for ???
*Mr Luka, you've got a point, but you're also a little off base. There should actually be two discussions: PD/FD vs civvies and distribution of donated funds. Don't know how they would do it (you know there's going to be corruption somewhere) but they need to find everyone who was directly affected and divide up the money equally. And yes, civvies should have the same respect as PD/FD when it comes to recovered bodies, and I don't think that's happening. The really sad part is that we sit here on the forum, and there's a thousand others people voicing concerns in different forums, talking about various inequalities, and the politicians in charge thump their chests and say 'look what a good job we're doing' and nothing 'right' actually happens.
*Doug, You haven't said too much. I think you're right. Like you, I don't want to put down anybody especially as the victims in NY did die in an act of war but here in Canada, police and firefighters die on the job at about the same rate as mailmen and are exposed to fewer risks than carpenters, woods workers, miners, and numerous other workers whose social utility might be compared to policemen. So what's the big deal? On our jobsites firefighters seem to be exposed to a lot of scorn. A red truck roaring by with sirens blaring and lights flashing is sure to cause somebody to mutter something about "Late delivering an estimate, are they?"
*Well, I certainly don't mind the dollars and attention for the police and fire. But I do agree that all of the other victims seem to be getting the short end of the stick. It does seem like there is a large amount of money for victim families and too much handwringing over just how to distribute it.Rich Beckman
*I don't think you're too off base Doug.I think the all the victims should be treated equally. Way too much money has been donated to this thing to the extent that other charities are hurting. When I was in line at the grocery store shortly after the attack and was asked if I wanted a donation added to my bill by way of a barcoded coupon I knew it had went to far. Too many people jumped on the bandwagon. To much donated blood went down the drain. The WTC charities and the situation as whole quickly became a means of promoting ones self, ones business, etc. etc. Now they got more money than they know what to do with. While the attacks were serious and the perpetrators should be dealt with, on a global or even national scale they will prove to be a blip on the radar screen that is history. Although my heart goes out to those affected personally by the tradgedy, my life was altered more drastically by another awsome event that took place on Sept. 11.As to firefighters, policeman and the like, I hold no more respect for them than I do for doctors, plumbers, teachers, garbagemen, etc. I would love to have the authority that a police officer has. I love to watch a big fire. I love to chase bad guys. That's what they chose to do and they are compensated well to do it by my standards. I'm glad I wasn't bitten by that bug, because I look for different kinds of rewards in my work. No I'm not going to get shot, but plenty of people in my line of work die and suffer crippling injuries that come with the territory. I don't think its right to beg respect for doing your chosen job.The whole WTC thing reminds me of a passage from a book I am reading. "... the human eye is lustful; it craves the novel, the unusual, the spectacular. War provides more meat to satisfy that lust than any other human activity. The fireworks displays are far longer lasting, and far more sensational, than the most elaborate Fourth of July display." I think it sums up our fascination with the whole situation.Interesting thread.
*What's so damn difficult about the whole thing?Take the money collected, divide it by the number of victims, and DELIVER it.Problem seems to be too many people in the decision making process. It only takes one. Get rid of the rest, and let the one do the job. As for the firefighters and cops getting so much money, they should get it. Not that they are so much more important, but the money that they are getting was GIVEN specifically to them. A lot of firefighters and cops across America raised money for them. Since it was intended for them, they should get it.The civilian victims should get every dime donated to them too. EVERY DIME. Screw the charity heirarchy's and admin costs. Let them donate that part. America opened it's heart, and it's wallet for these victims, NOT the charity leaders.Rant over...James DuHamel
*Amen.
*james, I was watching the spanish new primer impacto and they said that there was 337 mil collected for the victems and 67 mil was distributed. So wheres the rest. When confronted the head of the red cross resigned over it. They(the reporters) asserted that the money went for computers and building repairs ect for the charities. They were interviewing people mothers whose husbands were killed in the wtc who clamined they havent recieved a dime and one had 3 kids to support. I dont know what this world is coming to. The wife said she thought mexico was bad for that sort of thing she never figured it would happen here..me either.
*The money collected for this disaster has turned into a giant scam. Bernadette Healy was fired from heading the Red Cross for 2 reasons: she tried to make the Red Cross give the money collected for the WTC to the victims and not go into their general coffers and she tried to get the Red Cross to recognize the Israeli version of the Red Cross - something tehy have always refused to do. That is the real scandle. Healy was trying to do the right thing so she was canned and now they are trying to cover over the scamming.I too don't begrudge the police and firefire fighters getting the money - it was donated to them for this. I do resent all the other people badly hurt by this getting nothing or a pittance when billions were donated to help them too. That is a huge scam. Makes you think long and hard about donating money to charities - are you just enriching scam artists?Mary
*Guys (and Gals),Thanks for respecting my right to 'spress myself. It seems that others think the way I do, to some extent (Heaven help you!LOL!)Also thanks for putting "Ace" in his place.
*I heard alot of Charities are really suffering now from the whole WTC scandal. I guess the Salvation Army is having a hard time getting cash into its Christmas Globes - you know those things at the mall with the guy standing there ringing the bell. Too many folks buying with plastic, and too much disillusionment with charities. Too bad too, 'cause IMO they're one of the better charities out there.
*This scandal has changed the way I support charities. Now I'm hauling around town totin' turkeys and tennis shoes and toys here and there. It takes a lot more time and effort, and I wonder if I can get the same value for the money that a charity could. I'm not convinced it's the best way, but don't know what the best way it. Drat.
*Right now, my daughter's doing a book and video tape drive at her school for the pediatric wing at Greenwich Hospital. Whatever comes in she gives to the children. Why? Because that's why people give it. None comes home with her, because that's not why they give it. End of story.SHG
*The reason the FD/PD got all the money is because people gave it to them.
*teo & DuHamel - I wasn't aware that the money we/I/you donated was designated for the FD/PD only, and not for the civvies. I was under the impression that the money was being given for 'the victims'. Maybe that's part of the problems with disbursment. (Nah, the problem's with the politicians.) If the money had been given to two different funds, one for the civvies and one for the FD/PD, it might have been a different story. But if it was all given to one cause, then it should all be disbursed to all involved.
*Lots of organizations set up funds for the 9/11 attack victims and their families. Some were specifically for the police and firefighters in NYC. Those funds have apparently been disbursed to the people to whom they were donated. The Red Cross has the largest amount of the donations that were sent directly for the express prupose of the 9/11 victims - all of them not just the police/fire. There's millions that other organizations have collected and not disbused but a tiny fraction of them. That sounds like fraud to me. Hence the scandal and the questioning of what has happend to the millions upon millions of dollars collected.Mary
*There are alot of bullsh*t "non-profits" out there, most of them well meaning but unorganized. I've learned to give away money more carefully than I spend it.
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Yesterday, I was given an official WTC check. I had to wait on line for half an hour, speak to 20 people about things that had nothing to do with being a displaced business owner (the official title I was given), asked if I was on welfare, needed food stamps, grief counselling. Given the opportunity to wait on two more lines (over an hour each) to find out if I was eligible for a free lunch and give all of my personal information to people who didn't speak English.
Finally, I met with some very nice young ladies from Safe Horizon who were distributing grants from the 9/11 fund, who then gave me a check for $1,500 on the spot. I then had to go through an exit interview before they would let me leave with a guy who spoke broken English and again demanded to know why I didn't want to be on welfare. All in all, it was a test of tolerance. If you could make it through 3 hours without killing anyone, they give you $1,500. That's it. And you could have a chicken fingers lunch from the Salvation Army while you wait without proving that you are qualified.
SHG