We recently installed tile countertops with . We grouted using a sanded grout, 1/8″ groutlines. After 1 week drying time for the grout I sealed it with Tile Lab Teflon sealer at the recommendation of the tile dealer.
After using the counter for several months we have noticed that the grout is easily stained and can be worn away with moderate scrubbing.
Initially I debated over using epoxy grout but was deterred because of the cost of the product which was about 4X more than the sanded grout.
I am concerned that the grout will continue to become more and more stained.
What options do I have to prevent more staining and/or make the existing grout a bit more durable?
Thanks as always for your great advice
David
Replies
dig it all out and go back to the 'poxy grout...
at some time in the past you needed to reseal it... aggresive cleaners that do a great job cleaning grout are actually hell on grout and any sealers that are on it... of all the surfaces in the house the counter tops in the kitchen get cleaned the most often..
consider the grout you have there history... it is on the way out.. soon and will have to be replaced anyways...
I wouldn't have used a sanded grout on a counter top in the 1st place... that alone lends to the problems...
what brand of grout did you use... did it have modifiers???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
All grout needs cleaning and maintenace.
I agree w/ IMERC non-sanded with modifiers. Its what I used when I put tile on countertops in my house and it too stains over periodically coffee/red wine. We have tried all kinds of stuff to clean my wife likes bleach.....I go for baking soda and soft toothbrush.
bleach is the worst thing you can use next to muratic acid...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Why do you suppose I was told to use sanded grout? Because of the width of the grout lines?
David
I'll disagree with my learned brethern (again).I find for 90%, heck 99% of the time, normal sanded grout is fine. I happen to use Custom's line, but there are many fine lines by Mapei or Laticrete. It should be modified and have all the acrlic and latex stuff in it. The package will say.Your problem is probably a bad batch of grout, or improper mixing. The grout is so bad it won't cure, and is very very porous and is literally falling apart. This bad grout, David.Normal sanded grout is recommended for any grout line a sixteenth and over, so you got good advice there.I hate epoxy grout--it is messy and very unforgiving. It is a mess, and if you don't get all, and I mean all, of it off the tiles, you will end up jackhammering out the whole installation, tiles and all. It sets up very very quickly, and you have to act very fast and deliberate. God help you if you have to take a leak during the process. I like to have a couple helpers when I do it.I generally recommend it only when the shower, floor, or countertop is heavy heavy use, with lots of food products and stainy stuff being tossed around. It is perfect for restaurant floors and countertops. If you are your wife are constantly tossing around beets, wines, grape juice, and tomato juice, or have kids that like to draw with crayons, and you don't have time to clean up, then by all means epoxy might be for you.If you have never used it before, I would strongly recommend that you set up a trial sheet of tiles on a 3x3 foot of CBU thinsetting and try grouting that first. Follow the package instructions, wear gloves and based on the abient temperature, try to determine how many square feet you can grout before it sets up. This will be very critical. I might even practice twice. There is no going back on a failed epoxy grout install.Seriously, I would just throw some acid based grout cleaner on the surface of your old grout (be carefull) and that will weaken this already terrible bond, and remove the grout with a grout saw. If you have steady hands, you can try a Dremel tool or a Multi-master tool. I would go to a tile store and buy some fresh Custom grout, and give it a second try. Then let it cure and seal with a good penetrating sealer like Aquamix Gold, which is like $80 a gallon, but it has a 15 year warranty. Good stuff. I'd stay away, far away, from epoxy grout.Regards,
Boris"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
"I'd stay away, far away, from epoxy grout."
Chicken.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
I get long well with it...
put the components in the freezer before use for awhile and it will remarkably reduce fire off time... just don't freeze them
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I don't think the bond is terrible, there is no crumbling etc. The sealer was perhaps inadequate which has lead to more scrubbing than is ideal.
I might invest some cash in a better sealer and see if that makes a difference. If not, I will invest some elbow grease and dig it all out and start again.
It was a Custom Building Product grout but I cannot find the bag of remaining grout so I can't say if it was modified or had additives etc.
David
If it was Custom, then it had the stuff in it. If the grout is solid (perhaps I misread your post, I thought it was crumbling), then I would clean it and reseal with a good penetrating sealer, like Aquamix Gold 15. Yes, I am a chicken with epoxy. As Dirty Harry once said, "A Man's got to know his limitations."Good luck.Regards,
Boris"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
I don't see what the big problem with the expoy grout is.
maybe the fact I do mostly smaller sq ft residential stuff and other "real" tile setters are doing big commercial jobs ....
but I was all afraid of using the epoxy stuff .... steered more than one customer away from it ...
then I found myself cornered in a small bath with a batch of the stuff ... no way out.
I was subing the tile install .. the customer switched it on the GC and me at the last minute ... and even agreed to pay the 3x's upcharge for the labor on grouting I came up with.
I posted a few Q's at J.Bridges ... read the grout man's website ...
reread the directions on the can the day before ...
and got ready for the worst day of my life.
I had only planned on getting the shower walls done ...
but the end of that day I had the whole bath grouted no problem.
found one key ... water so hot it'll burn yer skin off.
after that ... cake walk.
and my favorite thing about the stuff .... after the initial wipe down ...
that's it. No hazing. Nothing to haze ...
on that first day ... I made the GC stay there and help me wipe. I'd mix and apply .. he'd wipe ... then I'd go after him and wipe and tool.
he only stayed for the walls ... I did the wainscot and floor by myself.
I've since learned that spiltting the stuff into smaller mixes is OK.
I just measure the level in the can(s) and mark it on the outside with a sharpie.
the dry mix powders are easily enough divided by eye.
once I get my "top level" ... measure down ... divind that by half roughly ... then divide that by half roughly.
There ... not ya got 4 small pours instead of one big one to worry about setting too fast. And that's only for walls ... I've never had to worry about doing floor mixes in less than "two divisions" ...
then just work fast .... when I do have help around I'll mix the whole thing and let them run for clean HOT water ... but usually I'm by myself .... I end up sweating alot ... and time flies when yer having fun ... but my grouting days are usually my longest anyways ... even with standard grout.
I don't even use the special white polishing pads everyone says ya need.
brand new plain old sponges ... they're ruined halfway thru the job anyways ...
I just plan on doubling up on the number of sponges I have on hand and have at it.
Epoxy don't scare me no more ....
Plus ... I still keep that 3x's up charge.
more work .. faster work .. sometimes harder work ...
but ... after the first wipe down ... yer done and going home a bit stick and tefloned.
I'll take that trade off.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
no idea...
1/8" grout line for a modified material isn't too big at all... besides sanded is a lot tougher to clean and harbors left overs and whatever comes in contact with it a lot easier than nonsanded... pores are tighter than with sanded - consider evertime you break out one of those grains of sand it leaves a new pore behind ... or think loaded up coarse sand paper..
could be they wern't considering the fact that it was a food prep are and were thinking bathroom...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Jeff is right about the Aqua Mix Gold....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
tile counter tops are a bad idea to begin with.
I "highly recommend" my customers got with an epoxy grout.
did U test the first application of sealer with water to see if it beaded up?
might not have applied enough sealer in the first place ...
or ... might have used cheap sealer.
I like Aqua Mix Gold.
that said ... no sealer is going to do the work of an epoxy grout.
more expensive .. harder to work with ... can ruin the whole job if the "grouter" doesn't know how to work with it ... but it's the best choice for a tile CT.
btw ... 1/8th inch is the dividing point ... less than an 8th .. nonsanded ...
more than 1/8th ... sanded ... so either/or could be suggested.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA