A few months ago I replaced the carpet and linoleum floor in the hallway, kitchen, dinette and bathroom with tiles. Before installing the tiles, I added 3/4 inch plywood to my sup-floor in order to properly support the tiles. I used 2 inch floor screws to secure everything in place, making certain not to put joints on top of each other. I did leave approx 1/16 inch between each 4×8 sheet of plywood for expansion. Once all the tiles were installed (using cement), I waited approx 2 weeks before doing the grout.
A few weeks after all the grout was done, I noticed that the grout in the kitchen was coming off (around approx 15 tiles in a row).
Going to the basement I notice approx 1/32 inch space between the I-joists and the underfloor in the kitchen. So, after removing (destroying would be a better world) 15 tiles, I re-screwed the floor, but this time, with 3 inch floor screws, making certain to tap in the I-joists. Following this, I re-tiled and grouted this area again.
To my dismay, the following day, the grout come off …At first I thought it was just a fluke, so I cleaned the area again, and re-grouted. This however did not last one day…
Because of the amount of tile that have been installed, approx 300 tiles, putting epoxy instead of grout is not an option…(would take me forever to remove all the grout) and I want to keep the same colour grout everywhere!!!
My question is: is there a product that can be added to the grout (I’m using a colored grout – delorean gray) to hardened this…I would use this only in that one spot were the grout is not staying, or does anyone have an idea to deal with this…
Seems that a simple weekend project has just got very complicated…
Edited 9/21/2006 7:51 pm ET by HabsFan
Replies
Greetings HansFan.
As a first time poster Welcome to Breaktime.
This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
In the event you don't find the advice you seek there is a tile forum that might help you out listed below.
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php
Cheers
The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Edited 9/22/2006 10:24 pm ET by rez
What TJIs do you have? Meaning 0overall depth and flange size? Should be stamped on them somewhere.
How far apart, on-center, are the TJIs from one another?
What is the span of the TJIs? Do they just go from the edge of the foundation to a main beam where they are lapped with another that goes to the other side of the house, or when they get to the main beam do they continue across the main beam to the other side fo the foundation?
What type of material and what thickness is the subfloor?
How often did you use screws (spacing) to screw the underlay to the subfloor?
When you "cemented" the tile to the ply, what type of thinset did you use? Modified or unmodified?
What size are your tiles?
How wide are the grout joints?
Did you use sanded or unsanded grout?
Edited to add the last three Q's.
Edited 9/22/2006 5:30 pm ET by Mongo
Thanks for the reply, though I was a bit overwhelm by the questions asked:
tiles are 12x12 inch
thickness is 3/8
spacing between tiles is approx 3/8
used sanded grout
floor screws where used spaced at 6 inches - at first I used 8x1 3/8, and when I removed the tiles, I used 8x3 inch floor screws. I made sure this time to tap in the TJI
when I re-tiled the area of concern, I used the pre-mixed cement from Omingrip. I did not have any cracked or loose tiles, the problem is the grout that does not hold in this one area only...
originaly I had linoleum floors in the kitchen and dinette and carpet in the hallway. Once everything was removed, I added 3/4 inch ply to the floor.
TJI are stamped: 14 TJI pro 150 IC BOES PFC 4354 HUD 689 CCMC 12832-R NER-200 12-11-01 N (I have no idea what these mean...)
The TJI are approx 24 feet long. They span the width of the house and are supported midway by a main beam and continue to the other side of the house. They are 18 inch center to one another.
I'm hoping that by finding the right grout (either flexible or super hard...have no idea which one to use), that I can fix this problem without redoing the whole floor again...
I would make post to http://www.johnbridge.com they helped me a ton. The common practice I learned was to only screw the extra layer of plywood to the subfloor and not to the joists. I sounds like you may have some different expansion and contraction of different materials causing the subfloor to bow.
Did you put the tile directly on the plywood? If so this might be a problem. I used a product called Ditra under my tile. 3/4" osb on 1x8 ship lap. I screwed and glued the osb down but did not learn about not screwing the osb to the joists (too late!!). However the Ditra alows the subfloor to expand and contract independantly from the tile. The guys at John bridge might have some ideas but in many cases I have seen their advice just plain say it was done wrong and if you want it done right you need to tear it out and start over.
Anyway, give the site a try. They are very knowledgable about tile and have saved my bacon more than once.
TimYou buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!