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My wife and I are building a house. Our builder installed 12×12 marble tile in the bathrooms. The tiles were installed on the shower/bath tub walls and on the floors with thinset(the plywood floors were screwed down). During the installation there was no heat in the house and the outside temperature was in the 20 – 30 degree range. Since the installation, the outside temperature has been anywhere from 10 degrees to 30 degrees – not counting wind chill. During the installation, I asked him if the installation would be negatively affected due to the cold weather…specifically whether the mastic would fail. He said that his crew had torpedo heaters going in the house during the day while the tile was being installed and that the bathrooms were nice and toasty. The house would retain enough heat during the night so I need not worry. Three weeks later,there is still no heat in the house (there will be, hopefully, this week) and the outside temperature has been down to zero at times (with the wind chill, well below zero). The crew did not work over the holidays so the temperature in the house probably approached zero degrees. My buider, who has been great and is building us a wonderful house, says not to worry, but I have nightmares about tiles popping off the
walls some day.
I would greatly appreciate it if someone could answer the following question: Will the installation, in any way, suffer from such cold temperatures?
Thanks in advance for your help!!!!
Replies
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I think you will have to trust your builder, especially if you think he is building such a nice house. There could be problems with such heavy differences in temperature but I have to assume that the thinset has cured by now and is less likely to be affected by freezing conditions.
fv
*Thanks!
*Yes, it sounds like the heat was on long enough for the thinset to cure. The concern with any masonary is that the concrete/thinset/mortar develop enough strength to resist freezing damage before it gets below 32F. Also for much of the water to have reacted with the cement (cement hardening is a hydraution process) so that is not a lot of water to freeze and expand.If you want to check one aspect of the installation - go around and tap on the tiles. Any that sound hollow ought to be taken up and relaid. This can happen without freezing, due to old thinset (using a batch for too long) or poor coverage on the back on the tile. -David
*Ahem, ah, excuse me guys but the man said mastic and you all are talking thinset. If I understand correctly, the natural stone tiles were set over plywood with an organic mastic in a house unheated save for some lil' ol' space heater. Granted, those heaters can do a fine job for the moment, but just how long is the cure time of the setting adhesive?Personally, I don't set on wood, don't use mastic for a wet area installation, and don't let the ambient T fall below 50F for 24 hours minimum after setting.Not knowing all the particulars I am not going to second guess the builder. Brant, go with the builder. You have zero reason so far not to believe him. And Brant, dream a new dream.
*He mentioned both thinset and mastic. My larger concern would be the ply base and thinset in a wet environment.
*Thanks for pointing out that I said mastic was used. In the first sentence of my message I said thinset was used. My switch to mastic was my mistake and I apologize for any confusion.It seems that the key is whether there was sufficient heat in the house for the thinset to cure. As I will never know the exact temperature after installation, I can only hope that there was indeed sufficient heat to allow for proper curing.Thank you.
*My mistake. As thinset is a portland based material and the house was "nice and toasty" during the installation there probably won't be a problem. However, all bets are off if the stone was set directly over plywood with straight thinset (unmodified or non-flex).
*Hold your builders feet to the fire because you are most likely going to have problems. Marble attached to plywood??!! Lookout! If they did that they probably used gray thinset too! This certainly is NOT being done to the TCA (Tile Council of America) guidelines!Oh well, as long as the builder backs it up and I mean longer than their typical 1 year warranty.Oh by the way, propane heaters can cause all kinds of problems with portland cement.
*Brant,The portland cement in the mortar actually even generates some heat of its own during the hydration process. Even if the cure process was shortened by the cold, the thinset should have more than enough strength for adhesion. With outside temps of 20, solar gain and heat from just people and light bulbswould almost assure a good bond if you've got any insulation and kept the doors and windows closed.However. Scott raises the real issue that should be at least addressed. This is a "Fine Homebuilding" forum, right. Why people lay beautiful natural stone products directly on plywood is beyond me. I've seen it hold up even on particle board -- the only cracks having appeared on a seam where the marble setter had forgot to put a strip of duct tape. However this was in a kitchen where it wasn't subjected to much moisture.Brant, I know you don't want to hear this cause it's a bit late for you to do anything. If a good additive laden thinset was used, there is still a decent chance of longevity, but as Scott says, there should not have been any reason to leave any of your tile job to chance.Good Building,Jim Malone
*My computer has been down for days, but is now up and running. Thank you all for your input. I appreciate the information!!!!!!!!!
*Who would lay tile before getting heat in there? Did they tape and mud drywall too? What's the hurry?
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My wife and I are building a house. Our builder installed 12x12 marble tile in the bathrooms. The tiles were installed on the shower/bath tub walls and on the floors with thinset(the plywood floors were screwed down). During the installation there was no heat in the house and the outside temperature was in the 20 - 30 degree range. Since the installation, the outside temperature has been anywhere from 10 degrees to 30 degrees - not counting wind chill. During the installation, I asked him if the installation would be negatively affected due to the cold weather...specifically whether the mastic would fail. He said that his crew had torpedo heaters going in the house during the day while the tile was being installed and that the bathrooms were nice and toasty. The house would retain enough heat during the night so I need not worry. Three weeks later,there is still no heat in the house (there will be, hopefully, this week) and the outside temperature has been down to zero at times (with the wind chill, well below zero). The crew did not work over the holidays so the temperature in the house probably approached zero degrees. My buider, who has been great and is building us a wonderful house, says not to worry, but I have nightmares about tiles popping off the
walls some day.
I would greatly appreciate it if someone could answer the following question: Will the installation, in any way, suffer from such cold temperatures?
Thanks in advance for your help!!!!