Tile on 7 yr old concrete – What between
Hello All,
Tiling a basement room in a few months so I’m planning my strategy.
Insulated Concrete basement floor 7 years old with fiber reinforcement.
2 relief cuts made during cure, still even and level, no settling.
No visible cracking.
Central North Carolina so minimal potential for frost heave.
Low water table and great drainage so concrete should not move in the future.
Double layer of 30 mil plastic vapor barrier under slab.
If absolutely necessary, I’ll spend the $ on a heavy duty separation membrane but I’m looking for other cost alternatives.
I certainly want to prevent potential telegraph cracking but this is probably one of the best concrete floor circumstances around so I don’t really think I need to install the highest end product.
I’ve read about gluing heavy untreated builders felt to the concrete and then using latex modified thinset right over it. If so what kind of glue? If not, what other options?
Pedro the Mule – If I use hay colored tile….can I eat it?
Replies
In that situation, I'd use a top quality modified thinset directly on the crete. If it's polished or has a shine to it, etch or scarify the surface first. You could apply isolation membrane first, just to be safe, but that would cost extra. I don't think you need it in this case.
~ Ted W ~
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Pedro,
One approved and not very expensive way to get an isolation membrane is to coat the floor with RedGard (a liquid applied membrane you can roll on) and tile over that with thinset.
It is still a good idea to scarify the concrete if it is hard steel troweled.
Bill
Buy some versa bond and tile. You have the best floor to tile. Protega or Ditra is big bucks and not needed for you house.
Have a good dayCliffy
Well, this will make two for and two against or not suggesting a crack isolation membrane.
I say you need one and I would use Schluters Ditra or some equivalant from Latticrete.
If you flor should crack even minutely, w/o a CIM, that crack WILL telegraph right up through you nice tile job that you worked so hard on.
And do yourself a favor and consider using something other than Versabond. It's what Home depot sells and.............
Mapie and Latticrete are good well trusted brands in the professional industry.
Thank you Folks!
I'm surely soaking up all the input from each of you, keep it coming.
I'm pretty well convinced that some form of isolation membrane is a smart move and boy, if $ were no object I'd probably be using Ditra and not asking for any opinions haha.
RedGard looks interesting and I've read up on their spec sheets.
When I poured the concrete....it was machine troweled.....a 5 hp gas fired flat propeller bladed device and the floor is slick but doesn't have the shine like I see in other basements.....I wonder if that's due to the fiberglass additive or the high strength mix I put in. As such I wonder if I still need to scuff it up.
Also, I'm thinking of running a pattern that will allow me to do some fine artwork contrasting inlay along the control joints such that "if" it ever cracked....it would happen along a reasonably easy to fix grout line....it would still be an aggravation but I wouldn't end up have to chisel out a broken tile "and" redo grout.
And, anybody ever used tile in a pool table game room? When a cue ball inevitably ends up jumping to the floor....will the tile definitley crack, never crack, or it just depends and you'll never know until? I was thinking about throwing in the odd contrasting tile here and there....then if I ever had to replace a broken one....it would blend with the random pattern already in place. The whole area is going to be based on a Southwestern theme so randomness fits nicely in place.
Pedro the Mule - Well meaning advice always appreciated....learned that from Grandpa Mule
Take a 5 gal bucket of water and sprinkle water throughout the floor. See if the water is absorbed. If so you are probably good to go.
I use a membrane over the concrete to stop cracks. They are 1-2 dollars a foot, and I've never seen much of advantage of one over another. Ditra is the new hot trendy orange expensive one--yeah I've used it, but have gone back to pvc type sheet membranes, at half the price.
mule I would always use crack isolation in this situation. Don't skip this step becasue you may regret it in the future. Someone suggested RedGard and that would probably be a good choice.
Noble also makes an isolation membrane and I believe they will pre-cut it to your specs. Ditra is great but it can be costly. I would compare different options and choose the one that suits you.
Someone suggested testing the crete with water to make sure it will absorb the water and not just bead up. That is a great way to do it. As long as it absorbs you should have no problem.
Laticrete and Mapei make excellent products and I would stick with those. If you are installing natural stone or marble be sure to use white mortar.
In regards to your other post about pool balls and tile breakage, you really should not have a problem as long as you get 100% transfer between the tile and the mortar. If it concerns you just use a good quality porcelain tile because it has a much higher psi rating than ceramic or most natural stones.
I always go around the room and bounce a golf ball on the tile checking for hollow sounds the day after it is set, just to make sure I have gotten good transfer.
sully
Hi Sully,
I sure appreciate the feedback....all of my other tile projects have come out equal to or better than what I've seen elsewhere.....I'm so type "A"....I give it everything I've got in labor but do try to save a buck when it'll never show.......such as for our shower, the wife picked out the tile she wanted.....I think it was around $2.50 a square.....I came home one night with tile that was almost a perfect match......$5 a box of 15 including tax.....right place right time.....saved a few bucks and didn't cut quality or style.
Laticrete and Mapei make excellent products
I've actually used Laticrete Grout before and was very pleased. Per your advice I've pulled up the info on the LATICRETE¯ 125 Sound & Crack Adhesive and this sounds like it may be the perfect thing depending on actual cost......a quick internet search shows this to run as much as Ditra and a good latex modified thinset.....I have access to it from a big supplier through a great client.....it'll be interesting to see how it prices out compared to other options. Mapei looks like similiar materials different spin....I'll read up on that too.
Thanks for the references,
Pedro the Mule - I hope I don't ever step in that stuff
In this situation I would cut crack isolation membrane into 12" strips and adhere it over the control joints only, we use "Rolled Gold" from our local tile shop which seems like a PVC product. we've done this before and had no problems. Laticrete works for me as well.------------------
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