I plan on laying tile in an upstairs bathroom. I am going with 3/8″ x 16″ on the floor. Do I need to lay a mud floor for this size tile? Also I am ripping up the old mud floor and tile and am planning to put a new subfloor down. Should I try to go over the old wood subfloor once the old tile and mud is ripped out or should I just take everything out and put down a new subfloor? I also have a couple of questions regarding the subfloor. (1) What should I use for the subfloor? (2) How should I go about taking out the old subfloor where it runs under the sole plates? Should I just cut it short of the walls and then piece it in? I would really appreciate some help, Thanks guys.
Replies
Removing a tile floor can be an enduring and dusty task. If you can remove the subfloor with the tile, it should make the demolition easier. Couple of thoughts -- the subfloor may be glued, screwed or nailed with spiral shank nails -- all will complicate removal.
AS for the subfloor, a 1 1/8" sub floor is needed. 3/4" exterior grade plywood with 1/2" Hardibacker or any cement board. I've found that hardibacker is easy to work with, but any cement board will work. I set the cement board in mud and nail with hot dipped galv. roofing nails. The mud is applied with a 1/4" x 1/4" square notched trowel.
I hope this helps, good luck.
Dave
Thanks for your advice Dave.
Mick
If you sub floor isn't sound, you can replace it. Cut it up to the plate. Then frame somewhere for the edge of the plywood to go. Make sure it's solid. As for HArdi-backer or mud floor, I've always been partial to mud. It is easier to level if the floor is off. Besides, I thinks its a little more solid. (That can be my stubborn side saying that). Hardi-backer is alot easier, set it in mud and use screws.DO NOT use dens-shield. IT says on the instructions that it can be used for residential floors, don't do it. It's practically sheetrock.
Can't I go 1 day without spilling my coffee?
Thanks Lunicy
Mick
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1
you can get some help here....
Thanks Hoof
"DO NOT use dens-shield. IT says on the instructions that it can be used for residential floors, don't do it. It's practically sheetrock"
Lunicy,
Is this the voice of experience? Have you used it and had a failure? Or you know someone who has?
I'm just curious. Dens-shield seems to have a bad rep, lots of posts over the years saying not to use it on floors and in showers, but no one ever posts an example of a failure. And it is nice to work with.
I agree that just looking at it, one has to wonder, but...
Rich Beckman
I agree with what everyone said..so I'll add..if you want you can keep the old subfloor and clean it up real good. USe screws to secure it to the joists better and then you COULD if you wanted...use Ditra XL..the XL allows you to go right over a single layer of 1/2" subfloor.
I'm in the process right now of doing a nice sized tile job of about 500 sq ft..I ripped the old layers of flooring off and was left with a single layer of 1/2" subfloor. Turned out the floor was wavier than the ocean. A nightmare so a layer of about a 1/2"-3/4"-+ of mud was added and leveled but I still was uncomfortable withthe conditions so I added a layer of Ditra and now we're about 3/4 through the tile work. Tiles are 12x24 black (charcoal grey) porcelain.
Looks awesome...Here's a cpl of shots of me putting down the Ditra
What are you adhering the Ditra with? Do you use a different adhesive for walls?
I've never used the stuff, but I thought it was mainly for wet locations. Why not leveler instead to level the floors?
Ditra isn't to level a floor
Ditra isn't to level a floor it's a crack isolation membrane that is stuck down with a thin layer of modified thinset. The floor I did was levelled first with cement...as in..a mud job. The purpose of two layers of plywood is to keep the deflection of the floor to a minimum. Ditra doubly reassures you of that especially in iffy areas like I was doing.
Some people for varies reasons such as the finished floor heights would like to have only 1/2" of subfloor.
Ditra is 1/8" and Ditra XL is 1/4" and allows movement between the tile and structure below the Ditra...it's sort of a cushion for movement.
Kerdi on the other hand is JUST a waterproofing membrane
Do you usually put anything (like building paper) behind your cement board?
only on shower walls
Is building paper OK, or is there something better? I wont be tiling a wet location, just a wainscoting about three feet up the wall the entire bathroom (s). I've helped on a job where we just screwed hardieboard to the studs and tiled it with porcelain. I'm concerned with the cement board holding moisture, so I want to seperate it from the studs. I know the board isn't absolutely necessary, but I like to make things extra hard on myself at home.
Also, I'm going with slate for the floors, but am not so sure about the wainscoting. Any suggestions?
You really don't need CBU's
You really don't need CBU's for the walls in non wet areas. IMO it's a waste of money. If you wanna go overkill use MR sheetrock...and instead of using mastic under the tiles use thinset so you then have cement under your tiles which should make you feel better..lol.
Thats how I almost always do it. Look in my website below...I think there's some photos in there.
CBU's on your floor for slate is right..thinset to your plywood (not CDX btw). You CAN use OSB or A/C and the like. OSB is cheap and works well with thinset.
one other thing..if you don't
one other thing..if you don't know about KERDI you may wanna Google it for future projects...oh yeh.. I think thats in my site too.
http://picasaweb.google.com/andybuildz/KAYLINMASTERBATH#slideshow/5312314673408448962
Eight-year-old thread.
sonofabidtch...lol
..
Rip it all out and put in a nice stiff subfloor and fix any framing issues while everything is open. Cut the old subfloor short of the walls and add doubled up ply rips under the joints between the old and new and screw/glue it all together. I run a skill saw around the edge and the 1-1/2" edge that is left is just about right to be able to work with easily.
With larger tile you want a nice stiff floor so don't be afraid of adding new floor joists if needed and I normally like to use 1-1/8" ply for the new subfloor since it isn't that much more expensive and much stiffer than 3/4.
Glue and screw the subfloor down.
Hope this helps!