Hi guys,
I have never done any tile work before and would like to cut my teeth on this small project that I have.
I have a small downstairs foyer/entryway in my split level home probably about 20 sq feet. My whole house needs reno’d so this isn’t an impulsive decision, but I was in the box store the other day and saw some terrific looking marble tile that I would like to go in the d. st. foyer. I asked the guy in the tile department what the maintenence was like with the tile, and he said that it is cultured marble so it shouldn’t need much. I know, I should have asked him what they recomend to apply the stuff with, but he and another employee were bangin’ away on somekind of metal display rack with a hammer, so I left.
It seems like everything in this house is a pita to work on. It is really frustrating because a lot of corners were cut by the builder, and various things arent/werent prepared right. It’s a builders plan book house and there is no room to turn around, the ceilings are to low to add any underlayment, things like that. Any way the 18 yr old sheet vinyl is coming up around the perimeter and is torn etc. so I want to take it up but I am concerned about the vinyl adhesive causing bonding problems, and I don’t know but I think that there is a sealer on the floor, the floor is also troweled smooth. The underside of the tile is pretty smooth too.
Needless to say I am concerned that my tile won’t bond. What are some of the things I need to do to lay this tile? What type of adhesive should I use? I don’t want to throw my money away, the tile is four something a piece (12×12). The subfloor is fairly level and concrete.
I would appreciate any advice.
Chris
Replies
You will have to remove the vinyl sheet flooring before setting any tile. Normally you should use a premium latex-modified thinset mortar to set the tiles on the slab. However, you are right to be concerned about the tile bonding to the slab. If the slab has been treated with a curing compound or other sealer, it is very likely that this will interfere with the bond of thinset, which really limits your options. Based on your description I think it is very likely that this slab is not suitable for tile.
You may be able to apply either a crack-isolation membrane or a waterproofing membrane over the slab and then set tile over that, which would serve the purpose of decoupling your tile from the slab, and would give the thinset something to bond to. You will have to contact the manufacturers directly to verify whether their products can be used in this situation. Try Laricrete (www.laticrete.com) and Mapei (www.mapei.com). In my experience both have been very responsive.
Marble does not ware well on a floor. It is too soft and scratches quiet easily. The only cultured marble that I am familiar with is the fragile stuff that vanity sinks are made of, and that would not ware at all. If this is a ceramic tile with a faux marble pattern in it, you should be fine.
You won't need any backer board if you are tiling on a good solid concrete slab. If the slab is sealed with a varnish or hardened glue, you need to remove the stuff without damaging the concrete. Use a modified thinset to bed the tile. It is pretty easy to work with ... a good workability time and water cleanup. Test position your tiles first ... with exact grout spacing ... to see how they fit and where you will make your cuts so that there will be symmetry. Even though the area may look square, I'm sure it isn't.
I also wouldn't count on what an HD aisle jockey told yold you while banging something else together. i had a customer ask me to lay some "marble tiles" she had bought at HD.
They were granite!
So yours might well not be cultured. They might be vulgar ones wearing a nice gown.
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
go to a real tile store...tell them what you want..and ask all your questions.
The sales people will probably send ya down to the contractors deck....where all the real info is held secret. Call around and find a place that has a "bargain basement"...my tile shop has a pretty good selection of clearance tiles at all time....
20 ft sq is tiny........any place with a clearance space would have plenty of tiles to choose from......go for the nicest/most expensive stuff they got......like I said.....20 ft sq isn't gonna add up to much no matter what you choose. Pick something nice...then ask the experts what you need to lay it.
probably will be a latex modified thinset. Possible mixed with a latex additive, instead of water. If the grout's gonna be a light color.....get the lighter color thinset.
One bag of everything hould be plenty. For that size..it may even pay to have the tile store do your cuts instead of renting a wet saw....see what they charge.
Dry lay everything...then get to work.
Jeff
.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
Thanks to all who replied,
Yeah I am still debating about whether to use the marble, cheaper ceramic, or replace w/ more vinyl. A little more info- tile box said marble from Itly. Tile is dark, I like that because I dont want a light grout line to show dirt. There is no shellac like substance on the floor. The floor is steel troweled smooth. So if I scrape up all of the glue from the vinyl that shouldn't interfere?
Any way I will go to the real tile store w/ my questions. Thanks to all.
Chris
Edited 10/6/2002 3:08:28 PM ET by CLWEBB
If you end up scraping off the adhesive I have a suggestion for you: Goop. You know that white, gooey hand cleaner? We have used it several times to soften the adhesive/backing scum that remains on the slab after removing vinyl (and once for carpet pad that was glued to our brick floor). I have friends who used it on hardwood floors as well, without any damage to the floors. I haven't done that myself.
Spread the Goop, cover with plastic so it won't dry out, leave it overnight, and the next day scoop up the mess with a scraper blade. Works like a charm, and you end up with very clean hands. ;-)
"A completed home is a listed home."
If the slab has been steel troweled smooth, you may run into problems with the thinset adhering to it. You should roughen it up first, since this is a small area I would use a grinding wheel in a 4" angle grinder. Makes a lot of dust and noise. This may help with the vinyl-adhesive issue as well, but may or may not do anything if the slab has been treated with a sealer or curing compound. I'd still be concerned about the thinset bonding to the slab. If you sprinkle water on the slab, does it absorb it, or does it bead up on the surface? If the water isn't absorbed, the slab was probably treated.
I would check this out before doing anything else, because it would be unfortunate to go to all this work to put in a beautiful installation only to have the tiles popping within a year. The more information you gather ahead of time, the better. A call (or e-mail) to the manufacturer of the thinset you plan to use describing the situation might be helpful too.
CL:
Natural stone must be laid on a setting bed that is dead flat. Put a straight edge to it.
I have seen many a dirty slab, and can not diagnose yours. Some will bond with tile; some won't. I can't see your slab, and don't know. You might try a test tile on the dirtest portion of the slab. You might also try mineral spirits to remove the old adhesive.
Good Luck.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927