I need to remove about 600 sq. ft. of ceramic tile that is on a concrete slab and wanted to know if anyone has any good ideas for the removal process?
I was doing a little searching and came across a floor stripper that can be rented, but from what I saw online, I wasn’t sure if it could be used to rip up ceramic tile or not. Anyone familiar with anything like this? Or a better way?
I’ve done plenty of ripouts of this nature in standard size baths with a hammer and chisel, but for this size area that is out of the question.
Mick
Replies
small demo hammer with spade bit
There is a rental tool, not sure if its electric or air, has a blade about 12-18" wide that oscillates. very useful for popping up ceramic tile and glued down linoleum. Well worth the cost to rent.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Thanks guys.
Is this something a local rental yard would carry?
Are you left with a "decent" surface after using one of these?
I'm thinking this would be better than the electric hammer with spade bit becuse of the wider span you mention of 12"-18". Any thoughts?
Check this out ... http://www.sunbeltrentals.com/Equipment/equipment.aspx?itemid=0680100&catid=s242
It gets the floor pretty clean, good enough to spread new thinset. If you want a perfectly clean floor it takes a little more work, but not much."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Thanks. Looks like what I need.
I'm not sure if that is what you need. I've used a similar machine to strip old VCT from a wood subfloor, but couldn't imagine it would work on ceramic tiles and concrete. I would think that you'd need a small demolition hammer and a spade bit, as someone else posted. If you go that route, know that the bit gets very hot. I have a lovely burn scar from one of them.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein (or maybe Mark Twain)
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
"Everything not forbidden is compulsory." T.H. White, The Once and Future King
I agree with AndyE. I've used that machine too for vinyl tile but I doubt it'd work on tiles that were cemented/thinset down. I wouldn't swear to that so ask the rental place to guarantee it'd do the job or you'll bring it back an hour later after you try it. It's worth asking i suppose. that machine is REALLY loud...I will give it that!
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
HF has one for about $99. I've never used it, but they do exist. I don't know the air volume requirements either.
An air chisel is going to give you the fastest tile removal results but the floor scraper is probably going to be better for removing the old thinset. It really depends on the thinset used, in my experience. What demo tools do you already have at your disposal, either that you own or that you can borrow?
Shaughnn
Welcome to Breaktime.
I read this: (or that you can borrow?) and was a bit surprised. You loan tools out?
I once loaned to a neighboring crew my sawzall. They broke it.
I loaned a sledge to a homowner, he broke that.
Lent a spud bar to a customer over the weekend. They bent it.
Now, I only loan my tapes with a nick in the blade or some wooden handled hammers that are not visibly split, so they feel bad and buy me another when for sure they bust that. A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I once loaned to a neighboring crew my sawzall. They broke it.
I loaned a sledge to a homowner, he broke that.
Lent a spud bar to a customer over the weekend. They bent it.
Noticed no multi master on yer list...I know...
what am I CRAZY????View Image
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
No loan no more. Nicked tapes and split handles..........sure.
Multimaster? ha!
Sorry now I told all over and over how good a tool it is. Now everybody, including homowners can have the wherewithall to be a magician............
Well, not every one can play that instrument like a virtuoso.....
ha ha haA Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
your only mistake Cal was not having Fein hire you on as their rep b/4 you opened your mouth here...
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Somewhere along the line I wrote them and the us pres of operations did send me a nice shirt-it was too small-I sent it back. Never heard from them again.
You know me, I thrive on getting #### to give away. Shoulda worked for United Way.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I've used the demo hammer with a tile removal bit, and my back felt every tile and every year. Popped tile off like crazy (wear safety glasses, sharp bits were flying).
After the job was complete (great timing), my rental place showed me a air hammer specific for tile removal - a bit like holding a shovel down on the driveway. A shovel that vibrates and makes a lot of noise. Anyhow, the advantage of this unit is that you aren't bent double, putting pressure on the bit. Woulda loved that a week earlier.
here's how I do it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BPHDgMIlEI
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1k6PwwMepI
I'm using an SDS-Max rotary hammer with a 1-1/2" wide bit. About 800 sq feet took a day. Would have been a lot quicker if I had a helper to manage the debris so I didn't have to keep stopping to clean up.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools - BuildersTools.net
See my work - TedsCarpentry.com
Thank you.
Man, that looks like hell on the ole'back.
I did most of that job on my knees, so closer to the floor. I don't know why I stood on my feet for the video, but yeah it was a back breaker.
By the way, if you don't have an SDS Max rotary hammer, almost any rental place will have one, along with a wide chisel or scraper bit for it. Note, do NOT get an SDS Plus, it's too light for the job.
Also, be sure to protect your ears, lungs and eyes. Those spare parts are hard to replace. =)~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools - BuildersTools.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com
Around here, they stip old ceramic and lay wood all the time. Home Depot sells and rents a long handled air chisel specifically for popping ceramic tiles. Sometimes it works, sometimes a hammer and chisel works better.
A small air-hammer, of the type used by auto mechanics to separate ball joints etc., is what I use, with a bent spade bit. Tool that size will run okay off a typical twin-tank (hot-dog style) compressor; it doesn't gobble up that much air.
Don't forget a full face shield and earmuffs, and welder's gloves with big gauntlets.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Is that heavy enough to do 600+ sq. feet? I'm thinking that would take forever.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools - BuildersTools.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com
Edited 3/25/2009 10:21 pm by Ted W.
I've done a few bathrooms with it. 50 sf takes about half an hour to 45 minutes but it depends on the condition of the floor, too.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I should get me one of those for small tasks. Can't count the number of times my SDS-Plus was just a little too big to get into an area and I had to break out the cold chissel and hammer. Which, of course, is hard to swing in the same tight area.
50 feet in a half hour or so is pretty impressive. I couldn't see using it for a big floor with 12" tiles, but I bet I'd use it for a lot of other stuff. I also have my share of bathroom floors. Well... whenever business finally picks up again. ;-)~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools - BuildersTools.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com
These are not expensive tools. Mine's a Porter Cable; I think it cost me about 60 bucks, plus another 20 smackers for a set of five chisels.
I've got an Bosch Bulldog, too, but I can never remember if it's a Max or a Plus. Rated for 1.5" hole in solid concrete, whatever that makes it. I never thought of using it for jack-hammering tile, tho. Mostly I use it for running conduit thru basement walls or pre-drilling holes for Tap-Cons.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Unless they make 2 versions, the bosch bulldog is plus (the smaller), with a 3/8" shank. A max fits a 3/4" shank. I use my sds plus for drilling masonry. It's way faster than a standard hammer drill.
I priced air chipping hammers a while back and yeah, they're pretty cheap pricewise. I just wasn't sure if my little pancake compressor could keep up with it. I tried to find an electric one, but to no avail. I'll check out what's on ebay when I have some extra money. Wouldn't mind having one on hand, and guessing I'll find a thousand uses for it.~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools - BuildersTools.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com
A floor stripper is no good as it is ment for vinyl or VCT. Your best bet is to rent a medium duty chipping hammer with a wide (4 inch) blade. Depending on how well the tile is currently bonded and what new floring you are using you may also need to rent a floor grinder that should get it down to smooth clean concrete.
Hope this helps,
Scott
Thanks for info.
I plan on doing a mud floor after removing tile. That being said, do you think I would have to deal with the grinding end of it. With an inch of mud, I would think a little ridge of stubborn thinset here or there would be okay. Your thoughts?
That's a pretty ambitious project. You don't have to worry about a little of the old thin-set as long as it's stable. ~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools - BuildersTools.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com
"Ambitious" meaning the floor tile removal or the mud job?
The mud job. I've never done one before but I understand it's kind of involved, with the leveling and exact mix, etc. If you've never done one I would strongly suggest you get some advice from this forum from those who have done it. Also, 1" thick X 600 feet is 50 cubic feet of mud. That's a lot of mixing. Not so bad, I guess, if you rent a mixer. But mixing it with a trough and hoe will make demolition seem like a cake walk in comparison.
I could be wrong. ~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools - BuildersTools.netSee my work - TedsCarpentry.com
I'm guessing you don't mean a mud floor, but a floor thinset down to CBU substrate.
A mud floor mean you'll be laying down a cement mix 5:1 about an inch thick to set your tiles into.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Edited 3/28/2009 10:37 am ET by andybuildz
I am a bit perplexed as to why you have chosen to do a mud job over a concrete slab.
Is it in that bad of shape?
The floor is very unlevel, lots of high and low spots.
What do you usually do?
Level (or un-level) and highs and lows are seperate issues.
A slab could be generally level but may have highs and lows.
Now, I can't see you floor from here................you need to assess the condition in order to determine a fix.
Large format tile is a bear to set on a less than flat floor. Smaller tile will conform better.
You can rent a grinder to bring down the highs, or fill up the lows witha skim coat of thinset.
At that point I would install a crack isolation membrane and then the tile.
If you are still determined to float a mud floor, be aware that this is no easy task especially for the uninitiated. I am not aware of your experience.
This mud floor will either need to be bonded to your slab with a primer or wire mesh mechanically fastened to the slab, or it will need to be seperated by a crack isolation membrane.
Wander on over to johnbridgeforums.com and wee waht type of info you get there.
I'll look this up for you in the TCNA handbook and post to you tomorrow.
Look into using a leveling compound. If the floor just has some highs and lows that need to be filled in a leveling compound might be the best and easiest fix. You could go with a self leveling compound which is more expensive and takes some experience or a leveling compound you float in yourself which I prefere. Gives you a hair more drying time to get it right and you can do an area at a time to be safe.
You can tile over it within an hour. Home Depot carries a cpl of brands. I like the bags of Henrys. It'll go from a feather edge to 1/2"
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Maybe the leveling is the way to go.
The only leveling compound I could ever find at the Depot was very expensive and didn't cover much area.
What does a bag of "Henrys" cost? Do you know how much sq. ft. you get per bag?
It is a bit expensive especially the self leveling kind. I just saw bags of it today at HD. I forget how much area it does. You'll have to call them. Just look up the phone 800 phone # or stop in HD. I couldn't even find it to send you a link other the the SELF leveling which is a lot more expensive...heres a fewof all I could find but these are self leveling. Just go to HD and find it or keep googling.
The self leveling does a lot smaller area so don't go by the bags in the link http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarestore.com/50-276-floor-levelers.aspx
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Self-leveling compounds will typically cover 50 square feet at 1/8" thickness. Custom Building Products (the Home Despot brand) actually has three formulas: Levelquick RS (Rapid Set/ the Home Despot product), Levelquick ES (Extended Set) and Levelight ( ultralight formula with extended set properties and able to pour up to 2" in a single batch). I prefer the Levelight always.
A mud floor must be a minimum of 1.25" thick to comply with TCNA recommendations.
Shaughnn
Thanks for info.
Will stop by the Depot and take a better look.
Will post back on what I find.
Be aware that self-leveling compounds (SLC's) set very, very quickly, and that for a large area such as the one you propose doing, you will need several assistants to keep the hot mud coming fast enough. Experienced pro's who work with this sort of thing all the time often describe leveling a large floor with SLC as a 'Chinese fire drill.'
You will need to seal the floor completely and perfectly before you pour in the SLC. The stuff is quite liquid when you pour it in; that's what enables it to level itself. If there are any holes or cracks through which the SLC can flow, it will...and you will wind up pouring a large quantity of very expensive compound down into Never-Never land.
That said, from what you say about your floor, an SLC might be the best way to go. Just be aware of what you're going to need to deal with when you go that route.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Thats why I suggested to him he NOT use "SELF"leveling compound but rather "Leveling compound" that you screed out yourself. thats the route I've gone many times. You don't have to do the entire area all at once. I do sections at a time so I don't have to worry about hurrying up as much.
I've had great results using leveling compound vs SELF leveling. You have about 20 minutes b/4 it sets up. I do areas about 3-4' x about 5' that were up to a 1/2" thick with ease. It's also a lot less expensive then SELF leveling. I just use a piece of 1x3 x about 5 ' long as my screed with the edges eased over a hair...I smooth it all out/over then use a 16" rounded cornered metal float to smooth it over....and keep going. At times I set a cpl of guides to run my screed over. If the highest area is say 1/4 " high....I lay down 2 pieces of 1/4" wood I rip about 8 feet long and use that as my track to run my screed over. Sorta similar to the way I do a mud shower pan.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Edited 3/31/2009 10:32 pm ET by andybuildz
Edited 3/31/2009 10:33 pm ET by andybuildz
You're right; they are a PITA, but...SLCs have the sole advantage of leveling the floor 'automatically.' For someone who's not used to floating and screeding mud to level, that can be the only way they'll get it level.
Me, I shoot the whole floor with a laser level (used to use a transit before the cheap lasers came on the market) on a 2' x 2' grid, then 'connect the dots' of equal height (all +¼", etc.) to make a 'contour map' of the floor, drawing it all right on the floor with lumber crayon.
With that done, I can then take thinset patching compound (not thinset adhesive) and float the low spots to bring it all up close enough to level so that I can lay Ditra over it all and forget any minor discrepencies.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
true...but like I think you said b/4...if you're not used to working with a SLC THAT can be a nightmare for some people.
I was reading not that long ago in JLC a few posts about someone that used it in a largish area and it ended up making his life a living nightmare bc he couldn't work fast enough and he wanted to know how to undo the mess he made.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
I run a strip of 1/4" sill sealer foam around the perimeter of the room as part of my prep before applying self-leveling compounds. This is primarily meant as an expansion joint to protect the SLC from structural tension, but it will also swerve to seal up some types of leaking points. For those others, I use dabs of cheap acrylic sealant. For floor registers, I cut a blank of scrap plywood to fit the inside dimension of the register and staple sill sealer foam to that, creating a plug.
Always have lots of water pre-staged for mixing. I use a 6 gallon bucket for mixing, a measuring container marked for the correct level of water and lots of 5 gallon buckets of water for the measuring container. Measure the water and pour it into the mixing bucket. Mix the SLC, as per manufacturer's instructions. Pour SLC and repeat the measure and mix steps. I've been able to solo 25-bag pours this way without much panic.
Shaughnn
Point well taken Dino, thanks.