I think my old electric water heater is done. It’s 18 years old. It runs out of hot water quickly.
I suspect it’s full of sediment. It’s a 50 gallon model. I think I’m going to destroy it before it goes up the stairs. Any advice on demo?
I am thinking that the new WH needs to be able to be powered by a generator. I see some makers, Bradford & White and Rheem, talk about non-simultaneous use of the heating elements. Is anybody familiar with switching between two elements and one? I’m thinking a 5KW generator is all I want to buy.
I have not got the water tested yet but I suspect it’s real hard. So is there any point in getting a longer tank warranty? If you think a softener is in order, we have troubles. I need an ejector pump. Will salt water be tough on on the pump?
Anode rods come in different flavors Al, Mg and others. Any sage advice?
What do you suppose the chances are that there are one or two plants in china that make all models and brand is not that important?
Thanks in Advance
Replies
Not practical to switch to gas?
jt8
"A free society is a place where it's safe to be unpopular."
-- Adlai Stevenson
I live in a circa-1927 farm house. Maintenance and upkeep have been kept to a minimum. There's no vent from the basement.When I imagine a vent, there's a stack that sticks out of the roof. No provision has been made for one. I suppose if and when I remodel the kitchen I could add one. But that might be my next water heater.Big Macs - 99 cents
Go with a sidewall vent. Costs a little extra, but heating water with electricity costs WAY extra. you would probably recover the cost i six months or less and the rest is gravy.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
""but heating water with electricity costs WAY extra"' That depends entirely on his location and the type of energy costs. I have extremely inexpensive electricity, gas would cost me more.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
You are the exception that proves the rule :>)John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
I am also an exception. I'm switching from gas to electric because electric is more expensive.
LOL!John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
I usually suggest that people look at the energy usage on the yellow tag rather than at the $$ amounts. Then take that usage and compare it to their actual utility bills. In my case, the nat gas is typically higher than what it states on the yellow tag. I pay the "therm" cost, which is typically what is used on the tag, but I also have "fuel adjustments" , delivery charges, surcharges and other stuff that greatly inflates my per therm cost. And on the flip side, up until this year, my $/kw was lower than the tag price (I haven't compared it since we had a 30% jump in rates).
So while the tags might say an electric uses $450 and a gas $220 in energy per year... in reality for me it might have been more like $400 vs $350. So what would have been 1-2 years to pay back (the higher price of a gas heater) turns into 5-6 years plus additional cost of venting and gas line if necessary. At which point it might be out around 10 years, which is kind of a wash since that is the expected lifespan of many heaters.
You just have to run the numbers and then get out your crystal ball and try to guess whether gas or electric is going to jump more in the next few years. In my case, where I live has fairly stable electric but volatile gas prices.jt8
"A free society is a place where it's safe to be unpopular."-- Adlai Stevenson
Exactly so. Last time I replaced mine , which was just a few years ago , I looked at the new foam encased electric version. No leaks as it is a non-metallic tank, very high insulation factor but they are spendy. Just couldn't quite justify the expense. But maybe next time.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
"There's no vent from the basement."
I really like the gas "power vent" models. The exhaust goes straight out the side of the house with PVC pipe, just like a high efficiency furnace.
The trouble with the legal profession is that 98 percent of its members give the rest a bad name.
Every domestic electric tank I've ever seen, and I mean every one only uses one element at a time. The top T stat is like a teetertoter in that it can only activate one element at a time which is why the wire to the tank is only 12#.
So as you can see it isn't new technology. It's ALWAYS been that way.
roger
I was told by a plumber that the physical difference between a 10 yr warrented unit and the 6yr warrented unit is the label on the side telling you the warrenty.
the cost of returning a water heater under warrenty can exceed the cosdt of simple replacing it.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
I love the old plumbers who ask if you want the ten year or the twelve year water heater. Sort of like do you want the 36 month or 54 month car battery. This is apparently a measure of quality to them. I'm fortunate enough to have a dependable supply of gas but less dependable supply of electricity, so I'll stay with the old gas water heater with pilot light that vents through the flue. Not ready for electrical for it. I also can heat coffee water on the gas stove if electricity goes out. Never understood the value of all electric from the 60's, except that they put a star on the front of your house, which told your neighbors that you could afford a higher energy bill than they could, I guess. Until they stopped making nuclear power plants, that is.
Please take no offense - but, 18 years, and you want to make a major change?
What's wrong with doing the same thing again?
Granted, a new water heater may not hold up for as long, but I don't think you need to put the water heater on it's own generator.
Just my 2 cents.
Bryan
"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio - just south of the Glass City
The 18 yo has been bad for a years now. I just have not had the urge to fix it. Or should I say the 30 yo pump in front of it was bad too. I had bought the new pump. It was sitting on the shelf as part back up, part improvement. There's always crisis-du-jour too.Until I finish the jobs I've already paid for, I hate to buy new ones. I've noticed home improvements are easier to haul out of blows than they are to install.
But the new pump, the filter and the upgraded electric are operational. I'm getting less and less hot bath water.The old model was a Craftmaster. Dad bought it with some kind of rebate from the co-op. I'm sure what extra he paid running a 50 gallon instead of a 30 outweighed the rebate. Anyway, Craftmaster is special order at blows and Whirlpool is in stock. It's like $30 more too.I live in BFE. When there's a bad ice storm or a forest fire, I might be without power for a week. Should it happen, I want a back up plan and a hot bath.I can't replace my 200 amp service. So I want to plug the hot water heater into the generator for awhile. The same goes for the fridge, freezer, pump and the lights.I live in a small place. I'm replacing the 50 gallon with a 30 gallon. I'm thinking the higher the wattage on the water heater the faster the first hour recovery. The higher the wattage, the bigger the generator I have to have.At the moment, the 5000W electric start model from sears, is my generator of choice. When the power is on, high recovery rate makes a 30 gallon look bigger. When the power is off, I want limp along ability. I was thinking non simultaneous operation turns a 7000 Watt model into a 3500 Watt model.But what I'm hearing is 4500 Watt elements and 3500 Watt elements will both run on a 5000 Watt generator. Even though there are two elements in the water heater.Big Macs - 99 cents
Have you actually looked up the specs on the 30, 40, 50 gal waterheaters.If the units use the same size elements (and I thinkt that they do, at least for the 40 & 50) you are "right" in that a it will heat a COLD 30 gal faster than a COLD 50 gal.But the first hour output of a 50 gal will be much, much higher as it has that much more stored.And an modern electric water heater with a high energy factor will keep water hot for a long time.And what is the usage patterns. With a 30 gal you will run out of hot water more often..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
>Have you actually looked up the specs on the 30, 40, 50 gal waterheaters.I have.There's a lot fewer choices for a 30 gallon.You know it's amazing the annual energy usage cost of a 50 gallon appears to be just a little higher than a thirty gallon. IIRC, something like $404 vs $414. Now I would think there was a fixed cost and a variable cost. I would expect the variable cost of a 50 gallon to be higher than a 30 gallon. So what does the yellow and black sticker really mean?Now I think on the models that offer the non-simultaneous use option, I'm just going to download the pdf of the users manual. I just haven't gotten around to it.BTW, my old heater at the end of a run of number 10. It would be nice not to fool with that either.I know it's a no no. But I'm going to wire the new water heater with a plug and a socket. Now this looks like a very handy place to back feed the panel with two male end extension cord. The fact that my water heater is wired with 10/2 wg and no EGC may change my mind.As the water heater is near the "well Casing" I might add a fourth wire to the receptacle. I know the code doesn't allow that either. But the well casing keeps getting more and more things tied to it. Someday it may reach the panel with a #6.This would be a good question for Bill Hartman, Bill Hartman. Do you suppose there's any legal implications to answering web questions for free?Big Macs - 99 centsEdited 2/27/2008 11:40 am by daFarmerDaveEdited 2/27/2008 11:45 am by daFarmerDave
Edited 2/27/2008 11:50 am by daFarmerDave
Therere are standard 30 amp plug and receptacles. The 3 pole (120/240 plus ground) is commonly available and is what is used for dryers.There is a also 2 pole, but you will have to go to an electrical supply house for those.http://www.wdminc.com/products/productdetails.php?prodID=260Here is some background information on heaters. Including some sizing guides.http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/waterheating.htm
http://www.energyloans.org/EnergyReference/body_waterheater.htmlBut be alert that that the numbers that they use are based one electric rate that may have nothing to do with yours. Either much higher or lower.AFAIK the energy usage is based on some standardize usage rates that have nothing to do with the size of the tank. Thus for the same amount of insulation the differnce in operating cost is due to the difference in surface area of the different size of the tanks during standby. I don't know what the specs are, but I suspect that, by far, most of the energy is used for heating cold water, not for standby losses.For a give usage of water the cost to heat that water is the same for all electric WH. (note gas gets in to another area, the efficiency of the burner and they can have more vairation).Here are the certified ratings on all kinds of heating appliacnes.http://www.gamanet.org/gama/inforesources.nsf/vContentEntries/Product+Directories?OpenDocumentElectric WH are near the bottom..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I might well be the poster child for why one needs a transfer switch. When I upgraded the panel I went from a 100A to a 200A panel. I side feed the new bus through a 100 A breaker. I did not upgrade the wire from the pole.When one flips the main open, it don't do squat.Big Macs - 99 cents
If you mean literally BATH water (as opposed to shower) you may want the extra capacity. The more hot water you want at one time, the more the extra capacity comes into play. Smaller tanks will yield a water temperature that decreases as you run the hot water because the cold water flowing into the tank will have a bigger impact.But knowing just how much of an impact, I don't know.
<<I am thinking that the new WH needs to be able to be powered by a generator. I see some makers, Bradford & White and Rheem, talk about non-simultaneous use of the heating elements. Is anybody familiar with switching between two elements and one?>>
Running one element at a time is typical. If the water in the top of the tank is cold enough to switch on the top thermostat, one leg of the power to the bottom thermostat and element is cut off. When the water comes up to temperature in the top of the tank the top thermostat flips the power from the top element to the bottom thermostat and element.