Or maybe I should call it whining/crying.
With 5 surgeries, we decided to hire a local general contractor to do the foundation and frame our house and do the roof. The rest I would do or sub it out.
I have walked through a few of his homes and stuck a level on many of his walls, floors, windows, and doors. He really does a nice job. So we signed a contract with him and he told us it would take 2 to 2 1/2 months. That was 3 months ago and the garage is being reframed because of mistakes, the trusses are laying on the roof of the house and some of the garage walls… He has since then taken on 12+ other homes. and is trying to keep 3-4 going at once and is the process of starting 4-5 more fith raised foundations, plus 2 remodels. He usually only dis 3-4 homes ayears and had a good crew of 3-5 people. Now he has 3 new crews who are on the so-so skill level at best. The foreman now spends his days running down material, fixing mistakes, and I mean alot of mistakes. Just in the 3 days, only 6 walls were stood in my garage and in the last day, the 74’long garage was 1″+ out of plumb at the end, the guys installed 8 sheets of shear panel before checking for square/plumb. The panels are running up hill and they don’t even touch the mud sill any more. Now they needed to pull them off and fix the problems. These were stapled on by a guy who must own stock in the staple company. The 6 windows were accidentally framed at a 47 1/2″ opening, not 48″. The bottom plate/mud sill run in and out of straight line by 1/8″ to 1/2″. This was checked with a mason’s line. Walls are out of plumb by 1/4″. Where 2) 45 degree walls come together, there out by 3/8″ to 1/2″. Some window openings are out of square by 1/4″. All of these problems fixable, yeah. I won’t even go into the screw ups on the house the were caught and fixed.
But why the H$LL do people let schmucks on the job if they aren’t qualified. It seems like some days they spend more time fixing things than actual productive work.
So, what’s left, 55 squares of roofing, garage finished framing, windows, trusses set, and the roof sheeted
What I have paid: All the foundation. ALL the framing($47,000)
What I owe: Windows($4580) Roof($4800) Trusses($11,000-which he wants tomorrow…)
Any of guys want to give me some advice on what to do? I’m going to try and see a lawyer tomorrow.
Replies
It may be helpful to have a discussion with a lawyer. I doubt he'll advise you to just up and sue just yet.
Have you had a serious talk with the contractor face to face? Not catch him at a bad time, but I'd suggest scheduling an appointment and meeting in a professional way to discuss your concerns. If his personal standards are high, like you observed on the prior homes, he's probably disappointed as well. Some people are very skilled craftsmen but not good at business or hiring. I'm sure he knows the problems and is in over his head. Your job is to get his personal attention back on your job until the contract is complete.
It's still early in the building season and you'll have no trouble at all finishing this summer. I wouldn't press him in an ultimatum way over finishing instantaneously, it's more important that he get his good crew on your home, even if you have to wait a few weeks. Ask where his best crew is now and if he will put them on your job next.
The "good crew has been split up and 2 of them are doing finish work on some other homes and they are overwhelmed too. The other guy is the forman who has been running around from job to job. Of the other guys(all new), one that has been on my job says he has been a framer for 14-17 years, it varies everytime you talk to him. He mostly talks about when he has worked on multi-storied apartments. He doesn't even carry a level with him. He says he's not getting paid enough to bring his own tools, but he pulls out his saws-all when he needs it,so I doubt he even owns one. One is a recovering druggyand left Calif to get away from the drug scene, another has been arrested for DUI another has been arrested for selling to an undercover and is awaiting sentencing plus, he has a drinking problem. As for the helper/laborers, one can't read a tape measure("what's all these lines on the tape measure for... is this a metric tape?") Another guy has a revoked license in Calif and can't get a license in Wash state. He got picked up and spent the night in jail. The owner says that there is a building boom in this area and he can't get good help. I think he is too cheap, too
As to what I have done to help out. I orchestrated the excavator, help pour the footings, spread out all the stem wall/foundation panels, helped the forman set the panels, help pour the stem walls, stripped and stacked the 2'x8' form panels. Then I got harrassed for not doing it "their way". I also helped do layout to prevent any future problems(additional charges)
I've done everything I could do to keep this job flowing, but it seems that all I have done is enable him to send one or more of his other guys somewhere else for the day.
I also realize that it's not necessarily great having the homeowner on the job, but it has gotten to the point that the lead guy on my job can't do competent/quality work. And this is the guy who is to be setting the trusses??
In the mean time, I'm living in a home on an expired lease and that cost me $850 per month and not in my own home with no mortgage. Until it is weathered in, I can't even start building the cabinets for the home. Everything is packed away
I can't see why anyone would defend incompetency or at a minimum, sloppy work. Migraine DID say 1 inch out of plumb as well as the lesser values and if you are competent craftsmen yourselves you would know that framing errors are cumulative.
Sure, the following groups (if they aren't the same slackers) should be able to work the kinks out in the finish, but why should they HAVE to? Why would it take 8 boards to realize a racking problem? And why would the guy with the happy trigger finger go to town on an obvious misalignment?
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the structural support ends up being just a pair of end nails because of miscuts and laziness. If 1/8 to 1/4 or even an occasional 1/2 out is an acceptable norm for rough framing then why do most here make such a big deal about having and using expensive Stabila levels or even bother to invest in laser equipment? Heck, throw away the chalk box and the masons line. The old eyeball is good enough!
Ralph--
I'm not defending incompetant work; I think you know my posts better than that. But although he said the wall was 1" out of plumb, he also said the trusses were just laying on the walls--ie, not attached, the way I read it. So, has the final tweaking been done, or not? Ask the framer, maybe??
In any event, I just get a feeling from this poster that the whine factor is the important element in the affair, and you know, probably, that once somebody starts bitchin' in high gear, nothing no matter how small or insignificant gets left out....
Probably the contractor he hired isn't the world's best; probably I wouldn't want some (or most) of his crews working for me. But as I said in my second post to Migraine, I wouldn't want to work for HIM, either. At least not until he learns to calm down a bit.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
yeah buddy..BTDT..
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Who is giving who a migraine? His good guys probablly said "I don't need this crap, put me on another job". There is nothing worse than an overbearing homeowner to try to "orchestrate" the job, especially some one who did'nt come up through the trades.
You have a valid question as to the shear wall, but a quarter inch out of plumb here and there is acceptable for rough framing. Those poor guys are trying to make a living no matter how much trouble they have in their PERSONAL lives that you seem to know a little too much about.
Your questions should be directed to the builder exclusively. I make a point to tell the help not to talk to the homeowner except to exchange pleasantry's
Steve
I agree with a serious face-to-face. Polite but firm. You have all the evidence right in front of you.
You've already paid for all the foundation and framing? ($47,000) That figure should include setting the trusses. They ARE part of the framing.
I would say no more bucks until the screwups are fixed and the complete framing package, including dryin, are complete and pass YOUR inspection.
If you've had any rapport with him during this time he should understand. You can't allow him to rob Peter to pay Paul, either. Hopefully he's not overextended financially, as he appears to be physically, and expecting to rush the payment from you to keep his other projects afloat.
Yeah. And get some real legal advice, too. Reread your contract.
I feel for you, migraine. This is the kind of crap that happens when "business" people try to maximize profits instead of build as good a house as they can. Seems to be more and more common that general contractors are more "business person" and less craftsman - breaks my heart.
All you goofballs out there advertising as "quality builders" when what you do is hire a bunch of sub contractors, then maybe supervise them, maybe not, back charge them to death, take every opportunity to shave 1/2 of 1% here, or squeeze a supplier there and laugh all the way to the bank have given my profession a black eye. I wish the whole bunch of you would go back to banking, or managing some other business (selling used cars might be a good fit) and leave the building business to those of us who build because we love it, not because we see it as a way to get rich.
Applause!!!!!!
Wait a minute.
You said we can make money at this?
I love building and repairing and getting people's houses fixed. You mean I could get PAID for theis?Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
What a fabulous idea! Here, Here!
I doubt if you're going to like this advice, but I've got to respond honestly to your post.
From what you wrote, the only problem worth whining about was the shear panels laid on racked framing and not touching the bottom plate after 8 sheets. That's serious enough to redo, no question.
But the eighths and quarters and half inches off over 74 feet--brother, you're making yourself miserable over nothing and probably bugging the heck out of your GC as well.
You should know that you can't stretch a mason's line over 74 feet tight enough to keep it dead effing straight. It will sag; the span is too long. If you want a dead straight reference on that kind of distance, you need to use a laser.
If your RO's are ½" too small in one direction, will the windows still fit in, albeit a bit tight? The answer should be yes, as RO's should generally be a full inch oversize in both directions.
ROs out of square by a quarter inch are not a problem. That's what shims are for, and expansive foam insulation.
Walls out of plumb by ¼" over 8' are legion. It's not ideal--but it isn't going to ruin your house, or even give the finish guys any trouble worth mentioning.
Remember when you walked through your GC's finished houses and laid your level on things, you were measuring the finish job, which was probably laid on framing similar to what you've got. This should tell you something, if you take the time to think about it.
I just did a complete basement finish on a 4-year-old house where I found some REAL framing problems--we're talking about a 42" doorway where one jamb was dead plumb and the other was off plumb by TWO FULL INCHES over 7 feet. The other end of that wall--a structural, supporting wall, BTW, with the sill plate sunk 3" into the basement floor slab (dumbest thing I've ever seen), was over 2½ inches off layout as well. The result was a wall so gull-winged that we litereally could not hang gyprock on it. We tried to shim it flat for two days--finally we gave up and boxed in the wall with a floating 2x6 stud wall and hung the gyprock on that. Now THAT's bad framing.
I do framing jobs, too. And I call my cuts to the sawyer in increments of an eighth of an inch, and I'll send 'em back to trim off another kerf if needed, sometimes even twice. But I recognize that framing isn't cabinetry, and that if the blinkin' 4x8's will hang on it, it's doing it's job.
You should read Larry Haun's recent article in FHB on framing tolerances. I personally found his standards a bit slack--but on the other hand, he's probably framed more houses since he wrote that article than I've done in my whole career. That's all he does. And I haven't heard of any of them falling down, either.
Take a vallium, bud. You're not gonna get through this project in one piece unless you calm down a bit. Building or renovating your home is a major stress party, and if you drive yourself batty worrying about stuff that doesn't matter, you'll be a candidate for a wet-pack before the joints are taped....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Window openings out of square by 1/4"...OMG call the inspector..........74' long wall out by an 1/8" to a half? Are you building a watch here or a house?
GO AWAY.
That 1/8" to1/2" is the exteme, so the difference is 5/8". That's a REAL long WAVY wall. This also means that one leg of the door jamb would be plumb and the other was in by 3/8". The windows out of square by 1/4" isn't really a problem either. It's when the opening is a 1/2" too short and the sill is out of level by 3/16"+/- and the trimmers are out of plumb side to side by 1/4".
And with a door out of plumb by 3/8", why should I have live with a self opening/closing door, or bend a hinge pin to keep it from swinging on it's own.
I gave the condensed list, do you want the full blown one?
If the walls were out of plumb by just a 1/4" I would be bitchen either. Heck, i'd be grinnin ear to ear
How about the foundation 6" too low. The footings off by 3" in one area and 1" in another. Top of stem wall 1/2" too high because they never screeded the top of the stem wall after it was poured. Only 3/8" of sub floor sitting on top of a 2 1/2" wide floor joist because the layout was wrong. When the guy was told to cut back the sheet, he did that one but only that one and not the next sheets that needed it too.
Why do some of you guys think everything should be fixed with a tube/case of caulking? Or, why should a room be out of square 1/2" or even more and not expect it to show up when the tile is laid, or is it the "drywallers job to fix it" or the cabinet maker's job to scribe all his base to fit or scribe the crown to the unlevel ceiling and level cabinets. Have you ever tried to scribe/fill crown because the ceiling is out? I have and the correct way to fix it is get the drywaller out to float/feather the ceiling. Do you think he does that for free?
How hard and how long does it take to get a bottom plate straight and true? I'm not necessarily talking up and down, Right now I'm talking sided to side(co-planer) And if the you can't sringline the bottom plate, how do you expect to sting line the top plate staight, get walls plumb and set trusses correctly?
Why should the siding guy be required to cut every end of the hardiplank a wierd angle so as to have it cleanly fit between the corner boards. Or should everything be cut and caulking in with a 1/4" bead of caulk, and every plank a different size
Or the guy who after working on 2 different jobs can't manage to layout lines correctly so as to nail the shear panel to the studs. Instead he misses the studs completedly with now 30+staples 2" long sticking out between the stud bays(that's per stud). Or making sure the shear panel joist line up in the middle of a stud, not 1/8" on one edge and 1 3/8" on the other. So what do they do, have him work on mine, not supervise him for 12 sheets of material, and now he spends the next day pulling of the panels, removing the staples. House #3. The other idiot who was helping him was no better.
So with this said, what would you do? Send them up on YOUR house and set trusses and hope you don't get a rippled roof and the roof sheeting lines up on the center of the trusses so no one falls through at a later date. Isn't it nice to have the studs in the wall plumb as to make nding them easier as in nailing on your siding, cabinets,etc? Or do you take the studs throw then in the air and the way they land, some crown up and some crown down, is the ways the wall gets built. How about the studs that were 3/16" too shortput in the center of the wall and then the shear panel attached. Do you think that some day the weight of the wall/roof will eventually collapse the top plate and push the studs down to the bottom plate. Hope you don't hve a tile back splash or an drywall joint at the ceiling their, it will probably crack. I mean how much longer does it take to cut a stud with in a 1/16" from each other? Or what about when the floor joists are 9 1/2" and the rim joist are 9 1/4". The lead guy is given a bundle of 1/4" shims and told where and why to use them. He doesn't and then a guy spends the next day or two pulling nails to fix his screw up and it still wasn't done right and areas needed to be reworked again, some of it by me and my son, on the weekend.
Or is it "you can't see it from YOUR house, or YOUR bank" the way some of you guys think is an acceptable business practice.
If you say you build a quality home with a good buch of hired help, do it, Don't say you do and then used questionable help and not expect to be held accountable.
well ya!
Man, that would give me a migraine.
Just a general statement that hopefully will point you to where your going.
When your driving in the wrong direction all the complaining in the world won't get you any closer to where you want to go.
So most of what you have been saying is really the answer to what you are asking. Unfortunately it's going to be painful because of the added problems and expense. Hopefully the lawyers will get back some of the bucks that it cost you. Plus because of your knowledge there is no doubt that you have pain to be dragged into the mess, but your here now so the sooner you stop it the sooner you'll get to where you want to go.
Stop the money. Stop the work. Kick em off the job and start moving on.
You are the boss.
Clay
I give up.
I saw the original post and the 4 letter word following 'go away'.
How in the world did you edit that out without having the edit memo come up on the bottom of the post?
Migraine,
I'm sorry, I must be working for you. Don't worry though, third time's a charm. Quit looking at the in-between and focus on what you'll have in the end....a custom job that will be done without the input of your blood and sweat.
Take it easy man.
Well, I feel for you to some degree. From what you've said it sounds like the builder overextended himself quite a bit and is having some major "growing pains".
The quality issues should be fixed. But they may also be subjective. No single level is perfect, and where you place a level on a wall sometimes changes how it reads. They lumber isn't perfectly straight or all exactly the same thickness.
You're going to have to live with some level of imperfection. Try to focus on what's important, and let some of the minor things go.
For instance - The shearwall thingy you mentioned probably needs fixed if you're going to pass inspection. But a wall out of plumb by 1/4" isn't something to get worked up over. Focus on what's important. Let the things go that aren't important.
If he's not going fast enough, you're going to have to make noise and keep pressure on him. Withholding or delaying payments is certainly a good way to do this. The "squeaky wheel gets the grease" rule definitely applies here.
If he won't listen regarding quality issues, tell him you'll only give him his next check if he meets you at the jobsite. Then you can show him exactly what you're concerned about.
One other thing - Working with a HO watching your every move can be excruciatingly annoying. Every little issue becomes personal.
Better to be occasionally cheated than perpetually suspicious.
I like that tag line. Perfect for HO's in the middle of getting a house built.<G>
The voice of experience for the original poster, from one in the middle of building, also with a builder that was on six houses and now is on twelve (but holding his own on the scheduling and good crews):
Things will happen all the time during building and some of it is important and needs to be fixed and other can be worked over.
On the house they are building here, I came by as they had framed windows and had one window 4' off the plans! They changed it after rereading the plan (that I designed, you would think that they trusted me) not on my word. That's ok, as long as they put it in the right place.
The ceilings in the house are 8' but the living room and garage are 9'. Well, the framers left and forgot to block that space into the attic on the two walls that needed it. That was a Thursday, the builder just left for a week and the insulation people were to show up Monday, so I did that blocking myself, cutting some scrap lumber they had left around to fit and getting it up there. The garage wall especially was a firewall and had to be done to comply with code.
You know, in general, they are doing an excellent job. It is not brain surgery and no one will die if a measure or twenty are a little off.
Yes, demand that they do as much right as you can get and some of what you say seems really off, but remember that no one is perfct.
You may want to check with an attorney anyway, so as to have documentation of your complains in the way he will suggest, like certified letters and how you may be able to legally withhold some payment until completed without you being in arrears and so defaulting on your side of the contract.
You DO have a contract full of specifications, don't you?
are you in Fla? and is this guy named Virgil?..I redid a house like that..just wonderin..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
You mean you're payin' guys for that?
see attachment. What would you first reation be when you saw this.
My first reaction would be, "The sheathing is supposed to lap down over the concrete foundation wall to prevent water infiltration." Since you are the expert on site--as you've made abundantly clear--how come you didn't catch this little detail? Too busy worrying about the staples, I guess....
Sorry to say so, but you are probably giving more migraines than you're getting. If I were doing your work, you'd be looking for someone else because I'd be outta there about the ninth time you got in my face about something that doesn't matter.
I frequently have HO's on site, sometimes even to help physically. Sometimes it works; most times it costs the HO himself extra because he slows things down, and I charge by the hour. But HOs that go ballistic over eighths of an inch in rough framing on a garage fer crissakes don't stay in my acceptable client list very long. I don't need the headache.
I am not a sloppy workman, and I don't tolerate bad work from myself or my crew members, whether the HO ever sees it or not (as is more often the case). But I don't tolerate neurotic flights of whining very well, either. I think you need to do a serious reality check and find out which of your myriad complaints are valid and which are just filler for your bitch bag. If you don't, you're gonna wind up the ultimate loser.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Edited 3/2/2004 8:53:38 PM ET by Dinosaur
I guess I'm somewhere in the middle of what's been expressed so far. I appreciate Jim Blodgett's sentiments about the trades in general and who gets into building and why and I agree with you that you have some very legitimate beefs. At the same time, some of what you complain about seems clearly inconsequencial to me.
As is so often the case, reality lies somewhere between the two sides that are describing it.
My suggestion is this:
You need to acknowledge that the situation is what it is and that what is needed is REASONABLE resolution. Spend some time deciding what you can live with and what you can't.
Work for resolution (i.e. Forget all about punitive words or actions. They will only escalate the problems. Make sure that threats and ultimatums are an ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT!)
Have your attorney review your contract and get as clear an idea as possible as to what your rights are. Remember, your attorney's opinion is just that: an educated opinion. If you seek legal recourse, so will the contractor. Having attorneys fight it out will certainly benefit those attorneys with only some chance of benefitting you. Going to court over such things is truly a roll of the dice.
Make a personal appeal to the contractor. Remind him of his good reputation that was the reason for your choosing him to begin with. Sympathize with his plight. He obviously has some problems and almost certainly knows it and is stressed out by it. Honey catches more flies than vinegar. The squeeky wheel often gets the grease, but nowdays it can also simply mean that you take a different car (or in this case that the contractor finds it to be easier to simply ignore you and go on with jobs that are easier on him.) Make it easy for him to show up and find a sympathetic, if stern, customer who clearly wants to work things out peacefully.
IMO: Once you have reached a new understanding with your contractor, get off the site! Let him (and his men) do his work. Go by the site at the end of the day. If you have concerns about what went on that day, get on the phone to the contractor immediately and tell him calmly what you are concerned about. ASK him if such and such was planned and state that you know it's a job in progress. Allow him to address the issue in his own way.
One last thought: Whether you ask here or whether you talk to an attorney, a home inspector, another contractor, etc., when you ask with an obvious slant to your questions and a lot of emotion in your voice (or post), lots of folks will automatically want to side with you and support you. THAT IS OFTEN NOT HELPFUL!!! You don't get reliable guidance from sycophants. Notice the largely polarized responses you got here.
Again, you have some very legitimate beefs. Stand up for your rights AND allow for the human-ness of the other parties.
Best wishes!
Something is what it does.
To Migraine,
Aye Carrumba.... I have been reading this post and the others and all I can say is where do you live? My two cents worth to all that have posted is... what kind of CRAFTSMAN puts together a Custom home with shoddy workmanship and expects to get paid for it? Granted that a little out of plumb is acceptable but when your sheathing starts to drift higher than the rest, how can you be expected to hang your siding to that? If the walls are out and the trusses start to go up and they don't fit what then? Come alongs? cut the tails and nail them in anyway? Migraine has a right to vent. Would any of you want your house built this way? It's stories like these that lead me to the building profession in the fist place. I've seen what carpenters ( or so called) were doing and getting paid for. In my eyes it was shameful. As someone said before...This type of workmanship gives people who care about the profession a bad name. It doesn't speak highly of the contractor that migraine trusted to build a quality product and ends up getting third rate. That's not fair at all.
What is going to happen down the road when things do start to fail because of poor workmanship. Is the contractor going to send the drunken fools that he hired back to fix their mistakes that were their fault in the first place? Better to nip it in the bud now. As a carpenter I have seen what can happen when corners are cut and things aren't corrected at certain stages of construction. More time is wasted fixing f*ck ups then putting together what is done right.
Patren
Wow. I want to live where you work.
Or maybe your just a little too idealistic.
"Would any of you want your house built this way?"
Well, I do live in a house built that way. It's an 11 year old house, built to production standards just like the other 477 in the subdivision. Is it Fine Homebuilding? Probably not. Is it pretty much the norm for new construction? Yep.
Custom Home. People think that means the Taj Mahal. It really means you get to pick your cabinets and move a few walls around. Is the construction necessarily better in a custom home? I don't think so.
People vote with alot of things. But their wallets is the thing contractors and developers really listen to. If they want pristine construction (or could even identify it in the first place) they should be willing to pay for it. Most aren't.
I'm not saying that shoddy work is something to be proud of, but I do think there is a place for Kia's, just like there is a place for Jags.
Jon Blakemore
To Jon,
You are welcome to live where I work. Very small town where every body knows your buisness and if it sucks...see you later. You are welcome to work for the contractor that has shown me that custom home means exactly that. If you want to change the entire plan he'd let you.. for a price. Taj mahal? no.. not even close. Fine homebuilding? he would qualify.
Living in a cookie cutter house? no thanks. Worked for a company that spit em out like there was no tomorrow, nice on the inside but many recurring and some structural short cuts have caused the company to rethink their strategy. The folks that have purchased the properties are very dissapointed with the product and are arming themselves with attorneys. I didn't have any say as to how they were constructed...I just trimmed the inside.
I guess my point is that if you're going to put your money into something and would like quality you are definately going to pay for it. This guy wants a check for $11,000.00 for a roof thats not even on yet! and migraine has a long way to go.
Migraine,
I give you high marks for doing research before hiring the contractor. It seems that you were looking at finished products, so try to keep that in mind with your current situation.
First off, you do have some quality problems. The shear panel situation and the wall that is 1" out of plumb are concerns. Everything else will probably either not be noticeable or will be redone in order to work (window RO's, interior walls out of plumb, etc.). You need to get the big issues addressed.
The one thing that you have the the GC wants is $$. Don't give him any until the large problems are remedied. At the same time, be reasobable. Tell him of your concerns. Remind him of the quality that you were impressed with which led to his hiring. Reassure that you believe that he will continue to uphold his standards. Make sure he knows that until he gets the biggies out of the way, no draws will be coming.
Next, give up the condescending attitude. I've worked with plenty of druggies, drunks, and losers. Do I have a right to judge them? No. It all comes back to the work. If they can produce, leave it alone (remember I'm coming from the customers POV). If not, talk to their boss and express your concerns with their work, not their hair/piercings/music/aroma. They might have made some stupid decisions, but that doesn't mean that they're stupid. I think there's a good chance that they have picked up on your attitude and aspersions. That would hurt my motivation, I can only speculate how it would affect them.
Finally. I would call into question your contribution to the project through your own labor. I'm not doubting your abilities, but I can tell you that I cannot think of one instance where I appreciated the owner helping out. If this was the contractual agreement, that's fine. Otherwise, I would let the men hired to perform the work perform the work.
Jon Blakemore
I thought I would update this post to as what has happened since. Three guys showed up to start working on the house/garage. From what one of the guys told me, three additional guys were pulled off another job to come work on setting the trusses to the house. They arrived at about 10:00. The origional 3 guys spent the day tearing things apart on the garage. As of 4:30 this after noon, there has been no work progress what was beyond the day before. Meaning they spend the whole day reworking the walls/sheeting/blocking. The work on the trusses of the house consisted on setting both gable ends with sheeting and setting about 5 other trusses. The guy setting the trusses said he spent alot of time restinging and "adjusting". When I asked him (between he and I) he said I wasn't being unreasonable and he spent alot of time fixing another job these guys worked on.
So, today was a positive step in the right direction and tomorrow's another day.
Thank you all for you input and even the "dumping on" I received from some of you was something to think about and was considered in my "reality check".
Hang in there........the trash lying about in the photo tells me all I need to know about the slobs working on YOUR HOUSE.
From what I've read it sounds as though there are/have been a couple of good guys on your job at one time or another. Cozy up to them, coffee and sandwiches, beer on Friday after work and tell the GC that you want these guys on your project or he ain't getting paid.
Sucks when you have a vision of how something will be completed and someone f's it all up. Stay on the case.
Good luck and stay away from all firearms until the job is done;)
Eric