This has been happening quite a bit recently- getting called out to go and give a price on a new kitchen. I get there, spend a while finding out what they want, developing a rapport, giving them maybe a ballpark figure, going home and sending them a more detailed quote, and then waiting for a response, then waiting some more and then some more and finally realising that I’ve had my time wasted again.
I know my market and the competition well enough to know that they haven’t got a better deal elsewhere, they’ve just decided that they don’t need a kitchen at this time or maybe they need to think about it for a year of two.
Also, I get enough work so I know it’s nothing wrong with what I’m offering, people who genuinely want work done are going ahead and ordering it. I’m just hacked off with the people who are calling me to come round and entertain them for a couple of hours
John
Replies
I started a thread a while back about pre-qualifying potential customers - it's in the Business folder. Still, I didn't get what I would consider great results. Many if not most contractors here at BT have a really solid clientele built up, so don't go on as many dead end bids, and, well, I guess the non professionals can't really give us much help here.
I've developed a list of questions to ask people on the phone who call - things like: Do you have any idea of how much the project might cost, how many bids are you getting, how soon do you need it, etc. I also look at people's property values in the internet tax records, and give polite excuses to people who live in inexpensive homes.
I think the root of the problem is 2 things: the "free estimate" allows HOs to have no real responsibility in the whole process, and 2) HOs have no idea how long it might take to do a kitchen remodel (your example) proposal, they think we simply use simple square foot multipliers with a few other numbers thrown in here and there.
Sorry I can't offer much, except to say - I know your pain!!!
Yes, thinking of the last three TW's I had, two of them were referrals, and no amount of pre-qualifying would have weeded them out. I'm pretty sure that many of the people who waste a contractor's time don't even realise they are doing it. At the time, when they initiate the contact, they genuinely believe that they are ready to buy, It's only when it's time to reach for the cheque book that they have second thoughts. Shame that our time has to be wasted in order for them to work out what their own priorities are
John
"I'm pretty sure that many of the people who waste a contractor's time don't even realise they are doing it. At the time, when they initiate the contact, they genuinely believe that they are ready to buy, It's only when it's time to reach for the cheque book that they have second thoughts. Shame that our time has to be wasted in order for them to work out what their own priorities are"
I think you are right. Most folks expect construction projects to cost less than they really do because they do not understand the underlying complexities. Therefore, they get sticker-shock when you price it all out. If they say they cannot afford it, it may be appropriate to mention how they can save money by scaling back their project in various ways. Sometimes the things you know are going to be a PITA for you are not 'must haves' for the customer. They may really appreciate the guidance, and the fact that you cared enough to consider their situation.
Having been on both sides of this table, I understand it is frustrating, but I wonder if any of those folks do eventually call you back when they can afford it? Do their friends call you instead? You get a chance to build rapport and show examples of your work. You could consider it a marketing expense.
Investing more in the phone screen is perhaps your best option. Amazing what you can learn about someone with a few well-placed questions. It can be really helpful to find out what phase they are at in their project planning. If they already have drawings or seem to have a solid idea of what they want, they are likely a more qualified lead. If they already have a budget, or have their financing in place, that implies some seriousness.
I no longer work in construction, but it's not so different in other professions. I still do not get paid to go on job interviews.
You said >> I still do not get paid to go on job interviews. <<Right... But do you go on 3 job interviews a week some of which take 4 ot 6 hrs?Matt
I'd have to agree with you, it is a big ol pain in the butt. People go into minute detail about how they want something done. You then spend HOURS giving them a rough draft and a $ figure ...only to find out they weren't really serious. You think to yourself, "Why the H*LL did you waste my time?!"
But I think csnow has the right thought. Even though they are a big waste of time and a major pain, you play it through anyway. Down the road they might get around to the project and might remember how helpful you were. Or they might tell a friend how helpful you were and you could pick up some 'word of mouth' business.
I've actually been on the other side of this. Had a sub come in for a bid and then when he gave me a follow-up call, I had to tell him I was postponing the project (although in my own defense, I had told him ahead of time it might be a year or so before I got to the project). BUT... BUT... I did end up using him! It took two years (or was it three?) but I had kept his proposal and had him give me fresh $$ when I got ready to do it (floor).
So just remind yourself "it could be business for me down the road." And a few months from now when you see me whinning about something similar you can remind ME: "it could be business down the road." ;)
jt8
The last TW I went through wanted a kitchen redo with a room addition to accomodate the space and ceiling requirements,I got so excited because she was a referral from another job (she had walked my custom paint job) where the buyer was a big spender and had some positive money issues (to me!)the second lady worked at the same business so I got the impression this was a "lay-down" deal, But forget it because one of the "big Boxes" H-D or L gave her the impression the entire job would only be 20K and to complicate matters more, I got word from my cabinet people when they visited, another structural bidder told her the job should only take 3 weeks RRRRIIIIIIIIGGGGGGHHHHHTTTTTT!!!!!!! Not even a real time line considering all the finishes required to be peformed in step... I've worked a long time to find other practical bidders for the jobs I find to get hurt by the interloper... Scribe once, cut once!
"sending them a more detailed quote, and then waiting for a response,"
well ... that line alone is breaking about a thousand rules in the sales handbook ...
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I'll add a little bit more than Jeff did...............go to the business folder and look for the fairly current $$$ Estimates $$ thread begun by Mike Smith.
There is a wealth of information here for the asking!
Eric
Every once in a while, something goes right!
1) I think you are starting to get a feel for the type of client who is not giving you a return for your effort. Charge a reasonable and fair fee for your estimate and for your time. If they are not willing to pay that, let them waste someone else's time. Give them a discount for that amount if you get the job. If you charge too much for the estimate, you will scare them away. If you don't charge enough, you will remain angry.
2) Someone wisely said in a recent thread that jobs are all about relationships. This is some of the best thinking I have ever seen in this forum. Think about that - for a couple of days at least, and honestly with yourself. I don't know anything about you, so don't take this personally. Analyze your interactions with the people who did not call back. Don't be critical of them. Try to figure out what it was about you that may have turned them off. This is the school of experience. You must have your head in the game when you deal with potential clients. Don't focus on their negatives. This will not lead you in the direction of getting work, only in the direction of weeding out people who will waste your time.
3) If you gain any insights in this area, remember that they also apply to the entire relationship with the client.
Good luck!
I agree with Les. Go have a sit down and make it clear at that meeting the design and quote process will take a lot of your time. If you leave the initial meeting without a retainer fee you can only blame yourself.
If they decline to pay the fee file away your notes until you recieve a check. Only then will you know they are serious and you are their contractor of choice.
I know of a couple of cabinet retailers around here who wont even sit down with you without a G-note deposit.
I haven't read the business folder (mainly because I'm not a GC) but, as a consumer and a salesperson, I have a few tips to toss in the ring if you don't mind:
1) If you can't/don't do a good job of pre-qualifying people on the phone then charge a fee for the estimate. Personally I think if you really sit down and think about all the reasons why you (later) banged your head against the wall with a non-engaging potential customer then you'll quickly determine what's important to ask upfront. In my line of work - national franchise sales - we get about 2000 leads per year. Yes, I love 2000 leads/year...but we only sell about 2% of those folks. So we QUICKLY weed them out on the phone by asking about budget, timeframe, other decision makers, what they like/dislike about other franchises, what other franchises they're considering, etc., etc. There are a million books on the topic. If you want my opinion on the best ones for phone screening tips I'll get back to you later.
But the other component here is charging a fee for the bid. I can only speak as a consumer...and I'm cheap. But I'm finding that as my kids and job start to suck up most of my free time that I want things done right the first time (yes, I'm finally taking my Dad's advice! He's a carpenter). In the old days if a guy told me he was going to charge me to do an estimate - and a few of them professionally explained WHY they did this - I'd tell them "thanks but no thanks". Nowadays though I'd definitely give those guys a shot. And the beauty of a paid estimate - from your perspective I would think - is that your odds of landing that job must DRASTICALLY increase! If I'm going to pay a guy $250 to estimate my new kitchen I'm going to pay darn close attention to that visit/estimate and I've already tipped my hand as to who I like...when I wrote the $250 check.
2) Always - repeat ALWAYS - do an estimate when the wife is around. I can only speak from my sales experience. 90% of guys say (if you even ask) "it's my decision". Oh really? How many home sales do you think were driven by the GUY!?!?!? Not many, at least it wasn't in my house! I can still remember walking out of an open house when we were house-hunting. My wife and I got in the car and we both knew we liked the house but I could have lived in any house. When I told my wife we'd keep looking to ensure the seller's didn't think they "had" us my wife started crying and said she was done looking at houses...this was THE one. What did I do? This manly man walked right back into the house and made an offer - five minutes after I walked out of the d*mn place! We bought the place. :-) Get the wife involved early or you'll be spinning your tires.
3) You wait for a response from the HO? Really? If 4-6 hours of your time is so valuable - and I'm certain it is - then why not spend 30 seconds placing a follow up call. Or, better yet, when you set up the estimate ALWAYS set up your next call AT THAT TIME. So it's Monday morning and you're on the phone with the HO. You set up the estimate for Tuesday night. On that same phone call you should say "Great, I look forward to meeting you and Mrs. Jones Tuesday night at 8 p.m....normally our clients need a few days (notice how YOU set the timeframe of a few days, not a few weeks or months) to review the estimate and come up with questions. When would you like to get back together to talk...Friday or Monday evening?" I swear it was hard for me to be so "assertive" with potential clients in the beginning but I'm finding that it works wonderfully. The other thing that you'll notice is that NO ONE else does such a thing - at least not in my remodeling experience (I've owned a few old homes). So you'll look SOOOOOOO much more professional than the others in the crowd.
4) SYSTEMATICALLY Follow up with e-mails, phone calls and written correspondence. You should create a "tickler" file for potential clients that have received your estimate and follow up visit. For instance: two days after the follow up you should place a call to them (ideally call at night when you'll reach Mrs. Jones!) ensuring they don't have any addl questions, etc. (no pushing here, just being friendly), then maybe an e-mail with a few additional references and pics of recent work (MAN I tell you this stuff would REALLY set you apart from the competition), then perhaps a letter is mailed out with some third party information about how to choose a reliable contractor (hey Mrs. Jones thinks, this sounds like our guy!), etc. You can wrap all this up at some later point with another phone call essentially asking for their business. You can do this in a tactful way obviously. If they're not interested at that time then you either put them in the round file or a long-term follow up file.
Without going into details I can assure you that these basic things set my personal sales system apart from 99% of my competitors. And I blow the doors off them in terms of productivity and sales. The funny thing is that many people think all this stuff is hard work. But the reality is that if you create a SYSTEM to do it then it's quite simple and efficient to implement. The one thing I love hearing from people that DON'T buy our franchise (and that's fine too) is "boy, I would have never guessed that a company in your industry could be so professional and thorough!"
Best of luck,
Rob
Edited 9/15/2004 12:15 am ET by strokeoluck
I have just emailed your post to myself.
If you don't mind, I'm going to mail it to my painter (we talk together about business development) and my BIL who also runs a handyman business in Australia.
I'm even going to write out and follow a script with questions for my next incoming calls.
Gotta sell more, sub out more.Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
No problem Aaron, I'm confident it will work well for you. The other thing I failed to mention is that it's important to test and measure. Try out a script for a few weeks and then measure the results - see what works best.
Take Care, Rob
If you want my opinion on the best ones for phone screening tips I'll get back to you later.
Well? We're waiting ...Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Stephen Schiffman's "Telesales"
Catal's "Telesales Tips From The Trenches"
Miller-Heiman's "The New Conceptual Selling" and "The New Tactical Selling" (a bit high end for a GC perhaps but has some good tactics)
Those books are a good start. But again I'd encourage those of you on the front lines to describe what your IDEAL customer looks like and then work backwards from there. If you like high-end jobs then flush out everyone else with the appropriate questions. If your typical backlog is six months of work then be sure you're NOT talking to people that want a job done in 6 weeks, etc. The way I describe it people, so they know we're not "selling" them anything, is that everyone is looking for a good FIT. So you (as a GC) are asking these questions to ensure that YOU might want THEM as a customer. It's very powerful to turn the tables on a potential customer. This isn't all about them. Tell them upfront if they don't meet YOUR criteria then perhaps you can send them in the right direction, they'll appreciate that.
- Rob
"4) SYSTEMATICALLY Follow up with e-mails, phone calls and written correspondence. You should create a "tickler" file for potential clients that have received your estimate and follow up visit. For instance: two days after the follow up you should place a call to them (ideally call at night when you'll reach Mrs. Jones!) ensuring they don't have any addl questions, etc. (no pushing here, just being friendly), then maybe an e-mail with a few additional references and pics of recent work (MAN I tell you this stuff would REALLY set you apart from the competition), then perhaps a letter is mailed out with some third party information about how to choose a reliable contractor (hey Mrs. Jones thinks, this sounds like our guy!), etc. You can wrap all this up at some later point with another phone call essentially asking for their business. You can do this in a tactful way obviously. If they're not interested at that time then you either put them in the round file or a long-term follow up file."
I do not think that most folks in construction fields think of themselves as salespeople, but follow-up is a huge competitive advantage. If they got 3 estimates, and you do followup like this, you will almost certainly get the job. Among the top complaints of any HO will be 'does not return my calls', 'does not show up when he says he will', or general 'lack of communication'. Follow-up like this shows that you are genuinely interested in the job, and a communicator. Let the other bidders waste their time while you follow up and follow through.
Thanks, Rob, for the thorough and thoughtful contribution. Your suggestion to do a follow-up phone call strikes a real nerve with me. There have been times when I sent out a proposal and waited for a call from the potential customer that never came. I would rant and pout about how inconsiderate of my time they were, etc. Even if I never got the job, a call might teach me what went wrong. I might learn if my price was too high, or - as I usually like to imagine - that they were just fishing.
These business discussions on BT really get me thinking about my sloppy business practices, and thinking is always a good first step.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
OK, today the ultimate aggravation. Home owner calls, I prequalify, little iffy but not bad over all. Has to meet mid day so I get everyone working and clean up to meet her at 11AM.
I am the only one there! I wait 15 minutes. Someone shows up. I ask if this is my person, "no she took the kids to the Y".
She calls later in the afternoon very apologetic and wants me to come over today, or tommorow would be good. I say nope, Monday at 3 is good for me, hows that work for you? She agrees. New attitude in our relationship. We are on rocky ground and any negative item will push it over at this point. Just venting. Thanks. DanT
Did she say why she missed the meeting?
I have a lady that I do basic remodel plans for sometimes, and I have cut off the relationship because of similar stuff. She would call, ask me to meet her at the clients house the next day, show me a sketch of what they wanted, and ask me to do before & after elevations and roof plans, and a 3d rendering. Sometimes she would ask for better interior drawings. And she had to have them in three days to meet with the client again.
So I would makes notes, take dims, and work late hours to get the drawings for her. Then I would sometimes fax them over, sometimes drive to her house, give her the drawings on time. Then I wouldn't hear from her for 2-3 weeks, when she would call and say they needed revisions to the plans in two days so they could file for a permit. Happened every time. And quick payments were not part of her repetoire ... took 6 months once to get $300, and that was after two invoices.
Oh, and the best part was that she was he11 to get hold of. I would call with a questions, leave a message, and she wouldn't call back for 2-3 days. Sometimes I would call her house and the cell phone, more than once, and still she called back when she felt like it. I was a slow learner, but finally just stopped answering when she called and won't return her messages.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Edited 9/15/2004 10:11 pm ET by Ed Hilton
She really didn't say and I didn't ask. Frankly I don't care a missed meeting is just that if you know what I mean.
I agree with how you handled yours. I read an article in INC. magazine once that discussed the fact that there are some "good customers" you can't afford to do business with.
They pay at a different pace than your money works, they demorilize you or your staff, they want things that throw your operation into a tizzy etc. I try to remember that. Don't always though. DanT
Some intersting and informative replies, thanks, I have read and will digest. However, some of the replies have rather assumed that there is a sale there to be had, and I'm more discussing the situations where there isn't a sale to be had, no matter how good my or anyone else's sales technique.
Haven't we all had a look around a car showroom, or electrical store, and had a salesman approach. Did he sell you something, even when you were just looking? Best he could hope for is that you come back when you are ready to buy, and I bear that in mind when I am dealing with HO's.
John
Good point John. In your line of business there's referrals, work to be done at a later time or even additional jobs that may be done at the same HO's place. I would recommend what we do with candidates that couldn't/wouldn't make a decision within our ideal timeframe. We put them in our database (granted we're fairly high tech, but the idea can be executed in any fashion) and regularly send them letters and e-mails. From a GC type person I would think even a quarterly e-mail with pics of your latest jobs, along with some great HO comments, would strike an interest in 3-5% of the people that read it. Visit w/your local Chamber of Commerce and get some high-tech whiz to create a nice looking e-mail format and fire those puppies off every three months. It builds brand name in your area and could result in some jobs.
To the guy that said the HO didn't show up. I liken that to candidates I work with that don't show up on the phone for scheduled appointments. I say this "Mrs. Smith, this is a very important decision you're embarking upon (and spending $30k on a job is important I would think), I take this very seriously. My time is very important, as is yours. I'll be frank, we're a very successful company and I spend my time with clients that are serious about this process. (The implication here is that we KNOW life can throw curveballs and sometimes appointments are late/missed, but this should be the rare exception, not the rule) Are you really serious about this job?" Then...don't talk - let her answer. If you feel she's sincere in her answer/apology keep working with her. If not, then just be HONEST and tell her that you think she'd work better with XYZ Company (and hopefully XYZ is your competitor that takes cr*ppy clients). Again, my general impression is that most people a) respect these responses and appreciate the honesty and b) are a bit surprised that they've been politely put in their place and quickly realize that they shouldn't take this very professional person for granted or c) think you're a jerk and tell you to get lost...and that's ok too. :-)
- Rob
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=47567.1_____________________________
bobl Volo, non valeo
I'll chime in as a consumer that recently went through sticker shock when putting together our kitchen. I think the average homeowner see's the displays at home depot, $4,000 as pictured, and figures for $10,000 they can have a custom kitchen. I'd suggest feeling people out about their budget over the phone, and maybe providing a couple of benchmark examples to provide at the low and high end for your kitchen remodels before meeting with them. It might also help if you have a relationship with a kitchen designer at a cabinet shop, that way they can meet with them early on, maybe before you meet with them.
Good Luck - Jack