Hello All,
I need some advice from the pros on here. Wife and I just decided that we can’t take living in the ghetto anymore and we are moving on to a safer neighborhood with good schools-Probably in a year next Jan. We are planning on having a kid sooner than later and that sorta cinched it for us-that and the toxic waste dump 3 blocks from our house that we found out about last night….
There’s a room in our house that is not finished and if finished with permits will add ~400sq ft including a full bath pushing our place from a 1200sq ft 2bed/2bath to a ~1600 sq ft 3bed/3bath. I need to figure out if its worth it for us to finish the room or to leave it as is for the next buyer to finish.
Now obviously I have to figure out what it would cost us to finish the room vs. how much it will add to the price of the house. One of the problems with doing this is that I will need to upgrade my electrical service from 100amps and add subpanel near the room to do it right. I’m not going to do it half a$$ed just because I’m leaving in a yearish.
What we’ve come up with is to ask a couple of realtors that work in our area to give us an estimate as to what the house will sell for either way. I don’t really trust realtors as I think they are only out to make money for themselves and they won’t give us an honest estimate.
Second thing we thought up was to pay an appraiser who knows old houses and the neighborhood to estimate the worth of the house as is or after the purposed work is done? I’m assuming that an appraiser in this situation would not have any reason to bs the numbers since I’m not trying to qualify for a loan.
Or is it just a no-brainer that adding square footage and a bath will increase the value of the house enough to make it worthwhile?
My wife is also now second guessing our attic floor strengthening project….after I’ve bought all the supplies and they have been stacked in our house for three weeks. I say that having easily accessible safe storage has to add value to the place but she is not sure…
What think y’all
Thanks,
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Replies
I'd say yes to finishing the extra space and no to the attic. If you have an unfinished space that should be finished, it will almost never work in your favor. You'll limit yourself to buyers of handyman specials. It doesn't have to be finished fancy, just neat and clean. The attic is something that might be noticed by you, from having lived there, but likely not by the typical prospective buyer. Just one person's opinion.
My wife is basically saying the same thing about the attic. I'm thinking that since the house is a victorian with limited storage a large amount of safe storage would be a plus to a prospective buyer.
Do you have an opinon about us hiring an appraiser or is that just a silly idea?Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
>Do you have an opinon about us hiring an appraiser or is that just a silly idea?You'd get as much useful information hiring a voodoo doctor. :)Nah, I don't really have a helpful opinion. A good appraiser can be useful, while a bad/inexperienced one sucks. They won't likely guess at a value of what it might be worth when it's finished to some unknown level of quality/completeness.
Dan -
I'm in San Jose, so I know a little about the CA real estate market. Whatever I don't know, SWMBO does since she's been in the business for over 20 years. Having established my credentials, I offer the following:
Real Estate agents and appraisers both base their "guesstimates" on comps - recent sale prices for comparable houses in your area. They're both guessing, but the appraiser won't be eyeing a commission and should be a bit more credible.
How much remodeling would price your house too high for your neighborhood? Off the top of my head, I would say that doing the bathroom is a no-brainer. Multiple bathrooms are always a good selling point.
Attic storage sounds a little "iffy" to me. If your budget allows it, the next dollar after the bathroom should go into the kitchen. Even a coat of paint on the cabinets would help.
Finally, I would focus on the appearance of the house from the street (curb appeal, y'know).
Look at the next year as a long term process of "staging" your house. Make it as attractive as you can, fix the really bad stuff, and sell it "as-is".
Good Luck!!
I'm in San Jose, so I know a little about the CA real estate market. Whatever I don't know, SWMBO does since she's been in the business for over 20 years. Having established my credentials, I offer the following:
You think the market near SF is going to tank as in prices are going to fall or are they just not goin to rise? Doesn't the high end suffer the most decrease in prices?
Yea it'll take a while just to get the place fully up to snuff with the staging and all the little stuff you ignore when you live in a house and are not thinking about selling it.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Dan -
I've been in San Jose since '73 and have owned two houses. I can't really remember the market actually ever going in the tank, but it has had slow times.......... and some real booms. If the past is any clue, prices will continue to rise - but much slower than they have over the past few years.
Almost all of my experience has been with the typical tract house and pre-50's houses are a whole 'nuther world. I've worked on a few Victorians, some Craftsman bungalows, etc and most of them were full of problems. With few exceptions, the owners had dreams far bigger than their bankroll. - lol
Hi Dave,
Could you ask you wife what she thinks about which segments of the market cool first and which cool last?
The house itself is in pretty great shape I think. Its got a new roof, foundation, copper plumbing, electrical, mechanicals and the inside is done up pretty nicely. I think anybody looking for this kind of house in this kind of neighborhood would be stoked to buy it. I'm sure that we have a decreased pool of buyers because of the age of the house and where its located and the customizations we've done to the place......
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Okay well it looks like we have scratched the attic floor project. Now the problem is, can I return the large pile of strucural select lumber and plytanum sturdy-floor to the lumber yard? I've never returned anything to a yard how does that work usually?
I have the nice wood memphis folding stair here too guess I'll have to see about shipping it back to them truck freight also...damn. Well maybe I should still intall the ladder...that might be easier than shipping it back to them....Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Just went through the process of selling a seven acre place in Gilroy, south of San Jose, and my advice for estimating value would be get a licensed appraiser to give you a price estimate. When it comes time to sell, that estimate will come in handy as a starting point. Yes, you will have to disclose the toxic dump site to the potential buyer.
Woodway, can you give us specific technical or legal reasons why the OP needs to disclose that particular toxic site (not on his lot, or even an adjacent lot), and not the hypothetical dozens of others that are within city limits?
Is the OP also responsible to disclose that house next door has W.R. Grace's carninogenous insulation in the walls?
Sure...California has some seriously strict disclosure laws regarding real estate sale. Forms that must be filled out prior to listing the property for sale, ask such question as; was there a death in the house within last 5 years, any known geologic hazards in the area, any known ground water hazards, any known defects in the house etc. and they even have one for known sexual predators living in the immediate area. On and on, about 6 pages of close print potential hazard that must be answered. If the seller doesn't disclose and it's found out later, it's almost certain that a big time law suit for the seller and his/her agent. Every real estate agent must present the forms to the seller and review them prior to listing the property. If W R Grace has a carcinogenic materials in the walls of your neighbors house and the seller of the house next door knows about it, then I think you had better make it known to the buyer just to CYA. It's a established law here that if you live next door to something like simple nuisance neighbors; drunks, loud parties on weekends, constant fighting or just about anything that could effect the property value of the house being sold, the seller has got to disclose that information. We had a Dow plant in south county area that made emergency flares for highway use and for flare guns (distress warning at sea). They dumped perchlorate into the ground for several years and it found it's way into the water table. That was 8 miles from our house and we had to disclose it to the buyer at escrow or place ourselves at risk not only legal action to recover buyer's costs but a fine as well from the state. The key question is "known to the seller." If the seller truly didn't know then it could be argued that the seller should be held harmless. However, something like a ground water contamination usually ends up being known by all those around the area. In the case of the perchlorate spill, it was in all the papers for several years so everyone knew about it and many were directly effected by it. A similar argument could be made for nuisance neighbors, if you live by a couple that fights six nights a week there's no way you live there for any length of time and not know it.
Thanks for that CA perspective.
All I can say is that their disclosure practices verge on insanity.
Obviously, in CA, it's best not to let one's mother die peacefully in her own - or her kid's - home, for fear of reducing property values right down to lot value (less razing, containment, encapsulation, and disposal fees).
Betcha neighbours sue each other over property value losses if'n someone dies next door. ;)
Some of California's laws do go to extremes once in awhile. Most of the real estate disclosure laws, however, were developed over time as a result of a few idiots and clowns who sold their homes to unsuspecting buyers, telling them that everything was OK when it wasn't. Some examples of the types of real estate abuses have been listed here on BT, if you recall. One gal, posting here not too long ago, described a home she had just purchased where the foundation was settling, she had cracked sewer pipes leaking raw sewage into the living space and developing strong sewage smell inside the living areas. She didn't sound like she had a lot of money and she was very desperate seeking help here on BT. If she had purchased that house in California, she would have the prior homeowner by the balls, literally and figuratively. She would have a forceful method to recover and make herself whole. Most of the time the laws seem to be a royal pain in the butt, however because of the laws, those who do get taken advantage of have a way to recover their lives back. Every civil society has laws, most of which were developed over time to protect the bulk of society from the few fools and idiots that attempt to take advantage of those who just want to live their lives fair and honestly.
Thank you for your coherent reply.
imo, cracked foundations, settling, broken sewer pipes (if above grade) are all things that a moderately competent home inspector should detect, provided the signs are not covered up.
Certainly, where a defect is hidden as in covered up, there is active deception. Fraud is rightly punishable under law.
But where a defect is there for all to see (badly worn shingles + gutters full of granules + water stains on the ceiling), then the sale price should reflect the existing conditions. EDIT: It's up to the seller to check the roof, or to hire an inspector (due diligence). It should not be up to the vendor to point out the flaws or problems that exist.
It should be up to a willing buyer and a willing seller to apportion the costs (and timing) of repair work, if any. If the sale is made at the lower end of the price range for that type house/neighbourhood, why should the buyer have additional recourse under law? Caveat emptor: a guy shouldn't expect to buy at a cheap price because the windows are worn out, then expect the State to force the vendor to replace the windows because they are not sound.
Obviously, many jurisdictions have decided to protect buyers from their own incompetence or failure to exercise due diligence. The onus is shifted to sellers who are in effect forced to issue a warranty on the house they are selling but did not build. A warranty on the materials and work of others (none of whom are parties to the sales contract) even though the house was built some decades ago.
How does this CA law work in practice? Do the buyers file many frivolous suits against the vendors?
Edited 12/24/2006 2:14 pm ET by Pierre1
A lot of home buyers are completely uninformed when it comes to buying houses and property. Most everyone buys one sooner or later and when they do, they should have some legal ground to expect at least a livable structure for their money, regardless of their level of expertise.For the most part, California law doesn't require that the house be in top shape, just that the buyer must be fully informed as to what they are buying for their money. Once informed however, the law doesn't require the seller to make good on any defects with one exception, any defect related to health and safety has got to be made good before sale. These mandatory sections are referred to as Section One items and these are, at times, a real pain in the azz. We had a buried fuel tank that required removal and inspection prior to sale. That was an experience I would just as soon not repeat anytime soon. Needed to get a state issued waste disposal number and list quantity and content etc. along with pay to disposal fees. If we take the example you cited regarding hazardous waste in the neighbors house, as long as the buyer is informed of the waste the seller has fulfilled the disclosure requirements and cannot be held liable. This mandatory disclosure responsibility and liability is spread almost equally between the seller and his/her realtor.
Thanks ww. I guess one additional benefit is that gradually over time the housing stock might improve.
Have a great Christmas.
its a no brainer that adding the finished room will add value, the question is
will it add more value than it costs you to do it,
and will that added value cause the home to sell faster, because now it is selling at a higher price!
if most people that are looking to buy in that neighborhood are looking for a bargain, then although you will be money ahead on adding the value, especially if you do the work yourself, you will be possibly waiting longer to make the sale,
which could end up costing you money given the right scenario, you find a great deal and make an offer contingent on sale of your house, it goes through but your house doesn't sell, so back on the market the great deal goes, and now that real estate is picking up great deal sells fast to someone else. etc, etc, etc. having a house that value can be added to by a new owner may be an advantage depending
now there are other variables that could affect the decision beyond the one i describe, but if you are getting permits and rewiring, and not doing the work yourself you may be pricing your house out of the fast sale category, if thats not a problem then no worries.
the other side of the coin is if you do nothing but the homework, get a drawing, estimate of electrical work, estimate for finishing, and include that with sales literature you increase chances of a fast sale as any potential homeowner or investor will see the potential to earn money if they do the work themselves.
the old advice about cars, if your gonna fix it, keep it. if your not gonna keep it, don't fix it. obviously there are exceptions, but as a rule of thumb...
Right of course the question is is if the finished room will increase the value of the house enough to make it worthwhile. We would be doing all the work ourselves also. The question is, if the appraiser thinks that it will only add $10,000 more than it cost us is it worthwhile???
We bought the house for a bargain believe it or not and we are pretty sure it would sell pretty quickly for $200,000 more than we paid for it.
What do you think about the appraiser idea? Or the realtor?Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
if i had 200k in profit to play with,i'd go ahead and spend 500.00 and get a appraisal and see what he thinks.larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
if you could find someone you trust, there opinion may be valuable, however what they are going to be looking at is the comps for the area. you could do that yourself with a little research, you said it is already worth 200 k more than you paid for it,
are homes selling for that amount in your neighborhood?
also look at time on market before sale for the different prices
pretend you are looking to buy in same neighborhood, which house would you buy and why?
i was just trying to point out that it sounds like you are trying to bail from that neighborhood, if you price your property to high it won't sell no matter what you have done to it.
putting money in to get more out is what all those flipper shows are about on TV, there is a risk, and for most of them if they don't sell quickly not as much money is made.
if you can wait it out you have no problem, but if you might need a quick sale to take advantage of a good opportunity when it comes along i would leave it alone
I'm thinking you want to get it on the market sooner rather than later. Granted it's single family, and you've done a really nice job on it, but in the next year there are an unreal number of units coming on the market - all those condo's in the downtown area.
I've got to wonder just how many people are looking to move to Oaktown, and of those how many will choose brand new vs. Victorian. Like I said, you may well be attracting a different buyer, but with such a saturated market...
I wouldn't waste time on the appraiser. Do the build-out, with the important things (elect, plumbing) done right but don't get fancy about anything else. And I'd pass on the attic. Just my 2¢...
if what wrudiger says is correct, lots of units will be available soon, you may be well advised to "do the build out" as he says just to sell your property, and thereby harvest the 200 K in equity
i have been out of california for over a year now, but still try to keep in touch with the real estate market to some degree. that being said these are my predictions/perceptions of the market
market peaked fall of 2005
many markets that were heavily speculated are now bargains, with plenty of FSBO, and more and more owners willing to carry the paper to get out from under overextensions (in the area where i now live i can buy the house i bought in fall of 05 for quite a bit less)
it will be at least spring of 08 before it starts to go back up, there could well be some tremendous bargains next winter
i even heard it said in here (different thread, can't remember which one) that the time to buy (for investors) is when rents come back up to a certain percentage of the mortgage & insurance, meaning that if you run the numbers, you can determine bottom by rent rising to meet falling mortgage payments of falling selling price of home.
if you can buy low, (new house when its a buyers market winter 06/07) and sell high, (rent old house until market goes back up in 4-5 years) that is what i see as the most profitable scenario for a move, and if you have to unload existing/old house finishing it can't hurt, it just won't make you any extra money in a buyers market
lots of variables to think about, let us know how it unfolds
market peaked fall of 2005
many markets that were heavily speculated are now bargains, with plenty of FSBO, and more and more owners willing to carry the paper to get out from under overextensions (in the area where i now live i can buy the house i bought in fall of 05 for quite a bit less)
it will be at least spring of 08 before it starts to go back up, there could well be some tremendous bargains next winter
That could be good news since we can not really afford to buy a place till next winter anyway. I think that the speculation does not happen so much in marginal 'hoods like mine so I don't know if that is so much of a factor.
What I am hearing real estate 'experts' saying about the SF bay area market is that prices are not going to increase but hold steady for at least a year. This could work out well for us if the price of our current place stays the same for a year and the prices of the houses in the nice markets also stay the same we know that our profit will still be the same and we will have more money to work with in a year. Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I'm thinking you want to get it on the market sooner rather than later. Granted it's single family, and you've done a really nice job on it, but in the next year there are an unreal number of units coming on the market - all those condo's in the downtown area.
I've got to wonder just how many people are looking to move to Oaktown, and of those how many will choose brand new vs. Victorian. Like I said, you may well be attracting a different buyer, but with such a saturated market...
You make some good points here. We live next to a yuppie condo place and I can say that the condo buyer and the buyer of victorian houses don't overlap.
You are talking about the CityWalk Condo's I think? I'm thinking that if the condo's sell well and get all bought up reasonably fast that that will make the area seem more desirable to people. A ton of yuppies are going to bring in a ton of money and they want their coffe shops and restaurants and we are hoping that it will revitalize that area of the city. Since that neighborhood is close to that area we are hoping for a spillover effect into our 'hood. Besides I bet those new condo's are not going to sell for less than $500,000 which definately puts us on equal footing with them pricewise.
Now the question is is all this re-devolopment going to happen to far in the future to help us out?
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Daniel,
The ones I'm aware of are City Walk (250+ units), Housewives Market (175+ units), Uptown (1,000+ units) and the one at the corner of Broadway and 880. I'm sure there are more in the area...
The GC who did our kitchen was doing a loft conversion thing on West near you - heard the guys had a hard time working there, always getting the come-ons from the local crack-head prostitutes; major security challenges.
I've worked in downtown for 20 years now and it's unreal how much the city has come back, especially in the last 5 or so. Old town is really looking like it will survive, they did a great job on Swans, lots more alterna shopping and food alternatives - and still a ways to go. Soon enough for you to sell next year? If my crystal ball was that good I wouldn't be working downtown any more <grin>.
I'm hearing the condo sales velocity is decreasing, and the developments I mentioned, except for Phase 1 of Houswives, won't be done till next summer. Agreed, a different target audience than your Victorian, but still...
Given that you essentially have the best house in the hood, I'm wondering if it makes sense to hang on to it another year or two. Since you don't have kids yet, you certainly have some time, and that would let some of the growth catch up to your place.
Wayne
Hi Wayne,
Given that you essentially have the best house in the hood, I'm wondering if it makes sense to hang on to it another year or two. Since you don't have kids yet, you certainly have some time, and that would let some of the growth catch up to your place.
This is what I would like to do is wait a couple of years but SWMBO has it in her head that she wants to leave earlier than later....we'll see. If we are going to stay 2 years then I will go ahead an do the attic as it will make my life a lot easier storage wise.
We are looking at another historic house either in Alameda (my first choice) or Berkeley or any other 'nice' city in the are that has old housing stock. We are both probably working in the SF financial district from now on so we would like to live somewhere where the commute will not be insane.....know of any places like that??Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Ah, SWMBO...
Daniel, my favorite real small-town eclectic community with (relatively) affordable old and unique housing is Martinez, aka Sausalito by the Refinery (prices held in check by the close proximity to Shell, but 99% of the time the wind blows away from town).
I had a home there, build in 1918 by a stockbroker who commuted (by ferry?) to the financial district every day. Sucky commute, even with BART. Worth a Sunday drive just to check out downtown though, lots of antique stores not to mention outstanding competition-class bocce courts at the waterfront.
There are pros and cons to both Alameda and Berzerkly. I've never lived in Alameda, and Berkeley in the 60's is just a little different than today. Since I don't have anything to base my opinions on I'll keep them to myself.
Wayne
if you could find someone you trust, there opinion may be valuable, however what they are going to be looking at is the comps for the area. you could do that yourself with a little research, you said it is already worth 200 k more than you paid for it, are homes selling for that amount in your neighborhood?
Someone in a later posting suggested looking at zillow.com (which I did not know about) at what houses are going for in the neighborhood. They have something called a 'zestimate' where they estimate what your house is worth..its probably BS but what they do do is comb thru the public records and tell you what the houses in your area actaully sold for. The prices are all over the map probably based on quality of the home. But it does look like we can get the $200,000 increase in price even before we do the room.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
madmadscientist,
I think I'm the one who suggested zillow .com but I did use a cautionary warning with it.. It isn't spot on.. Zillow has my home listed at a little over a million, however the bank just came back with an appraisel for 1 million 800 thousand. MY sisters house was $664,000 and her bank just approved 1 million 300 thousand.
IN addition the sale of a home in my neighborhood that isn't on the lake drops the price of all zestimates even those on the lake. If you have a corner lot or are overlooking a park, water front, or some other desirable feature I doubt that it's given any credence.
Those both are serious differances.. I looked for cases where the zestimate was too high and I've yet to find one..
I suspect that the low house in the neighborhood drops all houses untill enough houses have been sold that it's factored out of the equation..
MY sisiter spoke at length to the person who gave her her estimate and the reason they were busy giving estimates for the bank is they had a track record of being extremely conservative in thier appraisels.
While the market is a bit soft right now there always will be some who understand buying a $20.00 bill for $15.00 is a deal too good to pass up.
Hi Frenchy,
I think that for around here the low end of the zestimate range was pretty much what the places were selling for...not to bad if its true we are going to clear ~$200,000 and sink it all right back into our next place...Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
What Segundo said.
blue
Things that make me go hmmmmmmmmm......... toxic waste dump, is this something you will have disclose? Remember location, location, location....... it is possible that you could put on this work into the house and still not get back what you bought it for. I would for sure get an opinion from an appraiser before starting any work. It does kinda remind of back a few years ago when I was looking for a house...... looked a farily nice one........ problem was it wasnt on the better part of town........broken down houses all around it... even though it was a nice house I had to think of resale and passed on it as I am sure many people did.... I dont know what it finally sold for or if it ever did it was on the market for a very long time if though it appeared to be a good buy (price wise but not resale wise). But you have consider location before you buy or build a house.
Dan
That's a good point about the dump. Its not really a dump but a metal plating buisness that had been in buisness for 50 years. They closed up shop in 2000 and now the entire site is contaminated with heavy metals and scary stuff like that....The state gov't is doing testing and is going to determine how bad it is in the next couple of years...they are not rushing though....talk about environmental racism...Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
The way that both real estate agents and appraisers put a value on a house is by finding comparable sales. They can be found at the county clerks office or at a similar city office. This information is publicly available. They will produce a report listing the comparable properties and their sale prices. You can do this yourself if you wish to spend the time doing it. If you are in an area with a lot of sales, this will give you an accurate price. If there are no good comps, it is a guessing game.
This appraisal won't tell you whether finishing work will be worth the money and effort. Naturally the price you can command will increase if you have a more complete house, but it will cost you more as well. Common sense should tell you what to do to make your house more salable for little money and time. A real estate agent could advise you on this.
yea common sense...it'd be nice to have some of that....
We had already planned on finishing the room this winter before we decided to move. Now I am just trying to figure out if its worth it or not.
Why wouldn't the appraisel tell us if its worth it or not? I am figuring how much in materials its going to cost us, as a HO our time is free unfortunately and if the appraiser says it'll add $30,000 grand over what it cost us that would be great-wouldn't it??Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
An appraisal can give you a rough idea of the value. There is definitely a range of 10% variance from the actual market value. If your house is going to sell for 3-400k, that 10% is going to be more than 30k. Therefore an appraisal is worthless in determining whether the finishing is worth it or not.
This doesn't have anything to do with the honesty of the appraiser. It is simply a factor of the precision of the appraisal. It is not that precise.
An appraisal can give you a rough idea of the value. There is definitely a range of 10% variance from the actual market value. If your house is going to sell for 3-400k, that 10% is going to be more than 30k. Therefore an appraisal is worthless in determining whether the finishing is worth it or not.
I agree that the total price is going to be fuzzy but what I am thinking is that the difference in price would be more reliable. Adding ~400 sq ft and a bath equates to 'X' amount of increase in the homes value or something like that.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
A good experienced appraisor or realtor familiar with your area will be able to tell you a lot without running numbers by the seat oftheir pants. A specific numbers analysis right now will be essentially worthless next year when you want to sell because market conditions change.it is a good thing the metals place is likely only heavy metals and not chemical. If the later, I'd get a pregnant woman out of there yeasterday! But heavy metals pretty much stay where they lay
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
When my parents passed away I had their house appraised for estate purposes. Then, when I went to sell the house, it turned out that the appraiser had overvalued the place but I felt compelled to try to sell it at the appraised price. It took over a year and in the end I ended up selling it for something like 10% less than the appraised value. Sooooo, appraisers do make mistakes...
BTW - The appraiser had nothing to gain or loose by valuing the house high or low... maybe he just did a quick job. He did have his comps and what not.
Appraisals will give you a couple of comparables, maybe ask him for more than a couple. This may be old news, but have you tapped into Zillow.com, you type in your address, they'll give you an estimate of your house value, and comparable sales in your neighborhood.
Finish the unfinished space (skip the attic) and don't worry about the cost analysis. I just went through this on my house that my wife and I had been remodeling and working on all of the time we lived there. Discovered the fun fact is that the vast majority of people want to buy a house, unpack their stuff and go back to work. To them, repainting rooms is a big deal. They won't even consider a house that needs work - making decisions, finding reliable contractors (about a hundred threads here on that subject), permits, hassles, etc. Finish it nice, replace the electrical panel and then put it up for sale.
I paid for two appraisals on my house, first one before I tried a FSBO which was much too high. Yea, I thought it was high when I saw it and said so but the appraiser was the one taking money for knowing what they were doing and I figured I would just be happy to take a lower offer. Doesn't seem to work that way, if the price is too high folks won't even come out to look at it. 2nd appraiser seemed to confirm the first but then I learned about the "make the customer happy" appraisals. Since you've got a year, keep watching the local sales, visit those house that seem similar and see what they sell for. Final prices are public record.
By the way, the phrase is called "buying the listing" when the real estate agent tells you they can easily get $(insert extremely good price for your home here) if you let them sell it. Lesson I learned is that most agents will tell you just about anything to get the listing because it means they can sit on their butts, put the house in the MLS and run some ads and let the other couple thousand agents in your area come up with a buyer.
Good luck.
Steve.
Yeah, what you said!
By the way, the phrase is called "buying the listing" when the real estate agent tells you they can easily get $(insert extremely good price for your home here) if you let them sell it. Lesson I learned is that most agents will tell you just about anything to get the listing because it means they can sit on their butts, put the house in the MLS and run some ads and let the other couple thousand agents in your area come up with a buyer.
Yea exactly, we used to get several unsolicted 'free appraisel' offers a week here and I am sure they would be worth what I paid for them...thats why I was hoping a honest appraiser would actually give me a number based in reality-that doesn't seem to be the growing consensus here though...bummer.
I've been watching the 'comparables' for the past several years-the paper prints them every sunday-that's why we think we can get $200,000ish over our purchase price.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Edited 12/22/2006 8:33 pm by madmadscientist
Get in the room and start. Get ER done. Then move on.
Quit second guessing yourself. for the time you spent on this thread you could of at least emptied the trash.
Why does one room need to upgrade the entire elec service?
Why does one room need to upgrade the entire elec service?
The current panel is already max'd out on breakers (its a small panel and every single breaker is a double) and the re-wiring appears to of been done by retarted monkeys...I haven't had the electrical inspector in to look at the place but I know when he see's the current state he's going to make me fix a ton of stuff.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I'm just thinking of your expense to upgrade the service$$$$$ With a good trouble shoot? what about dropping a sub panel below and taking off additional circuit? Possibility that you could do a 40A to sub and split it from there picking up some space.
I'm just thinking of your expense to upgrade the service$$$$$ With a good trouble shoot? what about dropping a sub panel below and taking off additional circuit? Possibility that you could do a 40A to sub and split it from there picking up some space.
Thats an idea..there is a single 220V 20 Amp breaker in the panel that we could replace with a bigger breaker to power a remote panel in the garage nearer the room. That would certainly be cheaper..not sure if a 200amp panel would be a selling point over a 100amp panel...maybe not in this 'hoodDaniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Before you want to do much, make a load calculation on the house and existing panel. If it's 100a you probably have enough to do a safe takeoff. And if thats the case then you could sub panel to make a safer configuration.
If you've got all gas appliances and no electric hot tub or kiln, 200A won't be a major selling point over 100A.I upgraded to 200A because I wanted an electric kiln in the garage and I didn't want to ever have to upgrade again -- and my electrician *still* told me I was going overboard, but since the PG&E guys said we needed new underground conduit from the street even to upgrade to 100A, and the trenching was a good chunk of the extra cost to put in 200A, I went with the 200A.Which brings me to another point:If you already have 100A and can avoid upgrading the service, do avoid it. PG&E in Oakland charges an arm and a leg (I believe it was close to, if not over, $4000 in my case) to upgrade the underground service to 200A, and it took them about 6 months. And copper wire has quadupled in cost since then. I had to because of the kiln and because I only had 60A (the kiln needs 60A all by itself).
If you already have 100A and can avoid upgrading the service, do avoid it. PG&E in Oakland charges an arm and a leg (I believe it was close to, if not over, $4000 in my case) to upgrade the underground service to 200A, and it took them about 6 months. And copper wire has quadupled in cost since then. I had to because of the kiln and because I only had 60A (the kiln needs 60A all by itself).
Yea that's a good point...I think that it might be possible to do I need to figure out what the biggest subpanel I can use with the 100amp main panel would be.
This might all be for naught as my wife just found a fixer in Alameda that sounds perfect to us and we are going to see it Sat morn.....
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
the cost of improvement may or may not pay off big, but one thing the extra finished space might do for you is make a diff whether it sells in three weeks or in six months. IOW, the space makes it more desireable
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
an honest appraiser! never heard of one!
from what I've read,the best return on home improvement is in landscaping followed by kitchen/bathroom improvements.
Dan;
Clean it up and just bail out, if this house is in the ghetto, you are paying retail for the reno and not getting the benefit of living in it.
there are always hidden costs and extras to eat the budget alive and lower the $ you will take away.
Sell and buy the smelliest ugliest house in the best neighborhood with the best schools nearby, you can always live in a trailer parked on the property while you reno.
How much work are you capable of doing yourself? if it is less than 30% bail out tomorrow.
WW
With other variables being similar, finished square footage is often the basis of cost comparisons between comparible properties in an aprasal. If you believe there is enough evidence to support this idea then it's not a large stretch to generalize that you are much better off simply finishing the space as inexpensively as possible. Nothing fancy, just sheetrock and carpet.
Often, you aren't increasing the properties value by the new finished square footage multiplied by it's value, but rather the new finished square footage multiplied by your house's average value per square foot.
In other words, the simple addition adds more value in apprasals than it should.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
finished square footage is often the basis of cost comparisons
In CA, it's the permitted, finished square footage. I've known of several TFT's (Transaction Fell Through), where the advertised square footage was different than the "official" square footage (in the building department records). The differences are usually due to a garage conversion, closing in a deck, and/or bumping out the back of the house without observing the proprieties - lol.
If the house does sell, it's usually at a reduced price based on the "legal" footprint and the seller offering it "as-is".
Earlier this year, I got a call from a real estate agent who had a unique problem. Her client had bought a display home from a builder and the garage had been used as a sales office. The owner never used it as a garage. She put in a TV and some furniture and called it a "family room" when it was listed. The listing square footage didn't match the "official" footage and she was looking for a way to get a permit for something she had bought from a builder.
We also have a place in the listing forms where the seller has to disclose information about any unpermitted work they know of. It's a YES or NO response, and there's space to describe unpermitted work. I've been trying to find out if anyone has been caught lying about it - and what happened to them.
I would not bother with attic space. Cost of finishing is likely not going to generate a good return.
As far as the extra footage, I would do it. A 3 bedroom is easier to sell than a 2 bedroom. If unfinished, the space would not be a benefit to the sale for most people. I would do it as inexpensively as possible, and get it done. Insulate, sheetrock, tape and carpet or tile. Stop talking about it and fretting. Do it. sounds like the hardest part would be the electric and the heat/air conditioning. One room - should only take you a few weeks. If you're slow, a couple months.
I represented (as a lawyer) many buyers and sellers of properties over a 14 year period. I had occasion to use appraisers and brokers. I was also a hearing officer for a few years on tax grievances. There are positives and negatives to both. As far as doing it yourself, that's not so easy in my book. How do you know which area is comparable to which? Without the lilsting sheet, you can't tell what each property has. You don't know if it has a fireplace or a two car garage, a finished basement, new or old appliances etc. Where are you going to get reliable info? Did one house have a bad layout or was it next to a bad neighbor? How do you adjust for the extra square footage, or bathroom or _______ between the houses? Appraisers can do that for you - at least theoreticaly. Most of the appraisers will even get you photos of at least the outside of the comps. They usually give you 3 close comps. if you want more, ask for them.
A good real estate broker can do it too, if they want. You don't want to talk to the "kid" that happens to be the one on duty that day. Talk to somebody that has experience and grey hair, like somebody that's been doing this through at least one down market. You can interview several brokers. Be honest. Tell them you aren't selling this month, you are trying to get ready for a future sale and you want some help. Hopefully you plan on using a broker, for this house it sounds like it might be a good investment. I don't always use brokers, and don't always care for their tactics, but I have seen some local brokers that could tell you in a heartbeat what a house would sell for in a given area and how long it would take to do it.
Real estate isn't as good in most places as it was last year and some of the brokers (agents) will be a little hungrier than others. Some might try to "buy the listing" but others will be more honest. Ask around to see who has been in business a while and has a good reputation.
You ask about choosing one or the other. No need to choose. Do both. Bring in a broker and hire a competent appraiser. Tell the appraiser what you are looking for. As someone else said, if you are going to wait a year before selling, the numbers you get now will likely not reflect the then current values.
Good luck.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Thanks for the reply Don.
As far as the extra footage, I would do it. A 3 bedroom is easier to sell than a 2 bedroom. If unfinished, the space would not be a benefit to the sale for most people. I would do it as inexpensively as possible, and get it done. Insulate, sheetrock, tape and carpet or tile. Stop talking about it and fretting. Do it. sounds like the hardest part would be the electric and the heat/air conditioning. One room - should only take you a few weeks. If you're slow, a couple months.
I represented (as a lawyer) many buyers and sellers of properties over a 14 year period. I had occasion to use appraisers and brokers. I was also a hearing officer for a few years on tax grievances. There are positives and negatives to both. As far as doing it yourself, that's not so easy in my book. How do you know which area is comparable to which? Without the lilsting sheet, you can't tell what each property has. You don't know if it has a fireplace or a two car garage, a finished basement, new or old appliances etc. Where are you going to get reliable info? Did one house have a bad layout or was it next to a bad neighbor? How do you adjust for the extra square footage, or bathroom or _______ between the houses? Appraisers can do that for you - at least theoreticaly. Most of the appraisers will even get you photos of at least the outside of the comps. They usually give you 3 close comps. if you want more, ask for them.
We have pretty much decided on doing the room now. We are not going to be extravagant about it but we want it to look similar to the other rooms in the house. We dont want folks to step into it and immediately feel its cheaper.
We do want to use an apraiser but am wary. When we were buying the place the mortage company had to send out three different guys because they kept sending out folks who had no clue to the area or to old houses and they were next to useless. I just have to find a local appraiser who is worth his salt...got a migic formula for that?
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
that one pharse in the condition report is why i will only sell buy owner. i would venture to say that 90% of houses over 10 years old have had something done without a permit,maybe something small,maybe big. anyway when i check that box yes or no i have set the line for a lawsuit.if it said " have you done work without permit" i might check it. for sale by owner i am probably just as libel,but you gotta prove it and thats a whole different ballgame than saying you checked this box and signed the form.hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Hello mad... - Go to zillow.com for a listing of sales in your area.
Hello mad... - Go to zillow.com for a listing of sales in your area.
Thanks that site was helpfulDaniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Here's another site:http://prices.homegain.comThis one gives a range of values, which seems more reasonable than zillow's single point value -- although both are undoubtedly based on the same public records data (they've got the same error in the number of bathrooms in my house, for instance)Yahoo apparently uses zillow to power theirs(http://realestate.yahoo.com/Homevalues), which is nice to know in case the zillow site itself is misbehaving as it sometimes does.However, I think both overestimate values in my neighborhood (San Pablo just above Stanford) significantly.Try entering one of the recently sold houses' addresses and see what you get for a valuation, and contrast it with the actual sales price...Rebeccah
In CA, it's the permitted, finished square footage. I've known of several TFT's (Transaction Fell Through), where the advertised square footage was different than the "official" square footage (in the building department records). The differences are usually due to a garage conversion, closing in a deck, and/or bumping out the back of the house without observing the proprieties - lol.
In these West Oakland neighborhoods it seems like every house for sale has space added without permits or so long ago that permits were not required. the agent we used when we bought the house said that it couldn't offically add to the vlaue of the house but in practice it really did.
BTW all of our major stuff is being down with permits so we should be okay in that respect.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
In other words, the simple addition adds more value in apprasals than it should.
This is a good argument to fix up the room no? From talking to a mortage broker friend of ours who works with appraisers all the time he says that square footage is the main consideration on value with the condition and such just being relatively small modifiers to that.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Yep.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
We just had a realtor come by and check the house out and run some comps. These were realtors that are not really familar with my neighborhood, they are based and work in the 'nice' city we hope to move to. What they said was a bit depressing. They said that if we finished the room that people would not be willing to spend that amount to live in our neighborhood. That people would rather spend the money on a smaller house in a nicer neighborhood. I am not sure if I believe that completly since they are not really familar with our particular micro-market and they have their own biases against living in a 'bad' neighborhood. Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
madmadscientist,
It certainly tells you who not to go for a listing.. Attitude really does count in sales..
I suspect the numbers given were on the low side because it certainly sounds like they didn't want to handle the listing.. That's not all bad.. Use those numbers for budget reasons and when it comes time use a local eager beaver to list your property..
What sort of costs do you estimate the room will have if finished to a decent but basic standard?
Not all low income families are small. the added room may be the attraction needed to sell it to a larger family who isn't willing to take a smaller house in a nicer neighborhood.
It won't hurt as long as it doesn't dramatically add to your cost basis..
I can give you contact information for the Realtor who got me my house, and you could see if her opinion is any different. She works with a wide variety of clients and income levels, and my neighborhood isn't exactly great, either.Rebeccah
Hi Rebeccah,
Sure if you think your Realtor was worth their salt I would like to hear about them. I need someone who knows our neighborhood and isn't scared to do buisness in it. I also don't want a scammer who will tell me that they can sell our place for a ridiculous price. Maybe PM me with the info?Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I clicked on "send e-mail" in your profile and sent you her contact info the same day I posted. Did you get it? Her name is Zanna Knight.Rebeccah
Find a realtor who believes the neighbourhood is but a few years away from a turn-around,
or,
re-plumb and re-wire to 'grow-op' specifications. Don't put in a window. Someone will know what to do with the new space.
Dan;
I am sure that several of us are intrigued by these posts and following your experience closely.
Bottom line is that if you can make a buck from this the rest are sure to follow, if you can not, the miner's canary is horizontal at the bottom of the cage. There is only so much square footage in SF, nobody is making any more.
Good luck with this I for one hope you win.
WW
Right. Neighborhood makes a BIG diff on pricing
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Of course the neighborhood makes a big difference on overall price of the house. But the difference in price from 1200-1600 sq ft. house should be something that is more concrete..maybeDaniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Clean it up and just bail out, if this house is in the ghetto, you are paying retail for the reno and not getting the benefit of living in it.there are always hidden costs and extras to eat the budget alive and lower the $ you will take away.Sell and buy the smelliest ugliest house in the best neighborhood with the best schools nearby, you can always live in a trailer parked on the property while you reno.How much work are you capable of doing yourself? if it is less than 30% bail out tomorrow.
I just started a new job that if is pans out we can afford to move to an 'offical' nice neighborhood next year-we are not going to have the reasonably secure cash flow till then. The housing market here is jsut insane we live 5 min from San Francisco so even though our neighborhood is not the greatest the prices are still insane compared to the rest of the US. To move to a nice city in the area we are going to have to pay ~1.75 times what we can sell our current house for.
We will be doing all the work ourselves except for the service upgrade from 100 to 200amps.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
A house in the ghetto is going to increase in value by $200K????????
And you want more???
Why do I question that?
Ozlander
A house in the ghetto is going to increase in value by $200K????????And you want more??? Why do I question that?
You have not filled out your profile so I can't tell where you are. What I can say it that where we live the housing market is crazy and that from our own informal comparibles research we think that we can make that much on the sale of the house.
Now as to why I am trying to maximize the value of the house...if we want to move to a nice city with good schools we are going to have to pay ~1.75 times what we can sell this house for.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Get out and cut your losses. Get what you can out of the house. Spend the money on your new house. Put it up for sale now to get the ball rolling. The market is very slow and new house prices are down. I think they will stay that way for at least two years.
In the past, when we have shopped for houses, we were more than once put off by a house that had a higher price because the owner decided to put in new appliances or to remodel a kitchen or a bath. I prefer to pick my own appliances. I also prefer to pick my own cabinets if I am going to have to pay for a renovation. Additionally, I prefer to pick my own colors if a room is going to be painted. When the seller does this or any other work to enhance the selling price, your choices are greatly reduced, and you will have to live with that. Bottom line is I would rather have a less expensive house and pay for the improvements myself.
One reason in favor of buying a house with a significant upgrade is that the cost of the upgrade becomes part of the selling price and that is tax-deductible. Unfortunately, I don't think what you save on taxes makes up for the padding that the seller is going to put in the price.
Of course if you don't care about such things, then it would make sense to do an upgrade.
My personal rules when moving into a new home are:
1. Put in new appliances, fans, etc. as soon as you move in so you can get the benefit of use.
2. Do upgrades as soon as possible, preferably with cash, for the same reason.
madmadscientist,
No to your attic work..
As for your appraisel go ahead and get a few freebies, ask your questions. Not all realitors will play the buy a listing game.. Get enough of them and you will at least know the high end it could go for with the right buyer and etc.. Tell your realitors that you are thinking you might have to move quickly and you need the numbers for a quick sale. They tend to be more realistic.
Not all appraisels are realistic even when professionally done..
Ask first if the value of the house will increase if you have service brought in and what will that be worth. let's say you get a quote of $5000 but it won't increase the value of the house more than $1000, why reach into your pocket to give away $4000?
Maybe the lower price means someone can qualify for that amount but not the higher amount, maybe they want to do it themselves.
One hint, always have one family member have to rush out as soon as the realitor arrives.. gotta pick up great aunt tilly or some such excuse. That way you most likely won't be pressured to sign the realitor up right away. (they can be very good at that) your defence is you want to discuss it with your wife or husband if that's who takes off..
One hint, always have one family member have to rush out as soon as the realitor arrives.. gotta pick up great aunt tilly or some such excuse. That way you most likely won't be pressured to sign the realitor up right away. (they can be very good at that) your defence is you want to discuss it with your wife or husband if that's who takes off..
Thats a good one. I am so imune to that kind of stuff. My dad owned a car dealership for most of his life and that kind of hard sale stuff just washes right over me.
We are going to contact the realtors that specialize in our 'hood and have them give us some quotes as to what the place could sell for as is or with the room finished.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
If you believe the market is about to adjust downwards, put it up for sale asap and move into a rental place. Bank the sale proceeds in guaranteed securities that can be cashed in on short notice for when you pull the trigger on your next home - when the market has tanked.
Don't wait for the market to adjust downwards before you sell. When the market tanks, other more desirable neighbourhoods will tank as well, and those better locations will be the first ones to attract buyers...and you would be left holding the bag.
Generally not a good idea to increase the asking price of a home that is not in a desirable neighbourhood. Keep it affordable for the next guy.
As to your reno...minimize your outlay, but don't try to sell the house with open walls. Keep it simple and affordable: wire for lights/plugs, insulate, vb, drywall, door, window, trim and paint the new room. Forget about the bathroom, they are expensive; do not run pipes in the walls 'for the next guy'; instead, turn that space into a 'walk-in closet', with a switched light overhead. The attic stays as is.
The rest of the interior should be cleaned and painted. Fix any loose ends, broken handles, missing trim. Clean the carpets. Get rid of clutter so the house feels spacious. Remember that buying a house is as much an emotional decision as a financial one.
As to the heavy metals, since they are not on your property I can't see how you should feel obliged to take a financial hit for things that are not your doing. For that matter, should you disclose that the air in the neighbourhood is polluted by TVA sulphurous emissions? Every NE state and Eastern Canadian province breathes TVA fumes.
imo, caveat emptor remains a valid and wise principle.
Edited 12/23/2006 9:54 pm ET by Pierre1
Thanks for the reply Pierre1
If you believe the market is about to adjust downwards, put it up for sale asap and move into a rental place. Bank the sale proceeds in guaranteed securities that can be cashed in on short notice for when you pull the trigger on your next home - when the market has tanked.
Don't wait for the market to adjust downwards before you sell. When the market tanks, other more desirable neighbourhoods will tank as well, and those better locations will be the first ones to attract buyers...and you would be left holding the bag.
You make some good points there. I just am not sure what exactly is going to happen to the market. The difference in price between my current 'hood and where we want to live is so great that folks considering living in one are not looking at the other. We are in the low end of the market here. I thought I've been told that the upper end of the market loses value faster than the lower end? Maybe I'm hoping to sell our place during the lag before the lower end prices get reduced?
That is if prices get reduced significantly.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Dan,
1. I would clean the place up and get it as ready for sale as I could. Then I would call a reputable appraiser and get a rough gestimate with and without the additional space. 400 sqft may or may not put you in a different group of comps. That would be the deciding factor for me but it needs to be weighed against what the neighborhood will support. Having the biggest most expensive house on the block isn't always the best plan. Ask about the metal plating place also. That disclosure may effect the dynamic greatly.
b. I would then decide if I was finishing the project. You don't need to do it like you were staying. Just a nice neat properly done bedroom/bathroom. My past experience says that anything that could even be considered as "Needing a little work" or "A handyman special" brings out the bargain hunters.
Thirdly, Don't loose perspective. $200K is a big score for something in the 'hood. How will that set you up for your next move? Around here $200K would put you in a townhouse in a very good neighborhood in a good school district. $350K would put you in 2400sqft in a great area with awsome schools.
But you're in California. A week or so ago 6 of 10 places listed as overvalued and about to fall in price were in California. So, like someone else said, you might want to get it sold and rent for a while.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/18/magazines/fortune/worstmarkets.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2006121906
Yeah, Oakland made the list. Unfortunately, too many people buy the hype. A year ago, the same group listed the Lehigh Valley PA area as one fo the safest markets to be in for the next ten years and it caused an alomst overnight 10% jump in prices. They then settled a little a few months later.
It sounds like you have potential cash in your pocket but you might need to act fast to actually feel it there.
I would skip the attic project. Most people won't care. A bedroom and bathroom are an easy to see benefit. Being able to walk around in the attic with all your old junk you don't want to part with.............. not so much.
thanks for the link robert i had a lot of fun poking around there, i am feeling much better after looking at the trends in different national areas, i moved from the biggest overvalued area (california) to the area expected to grow and appreciate the most (south) although my particular neighborhood did go down in value because of overspeculation, i am sure that over time it will appreciate just because we are on the coast.
there are incredible bargains in my area now, and next winter may be even better!
Thirdly, Don't loose perspective. $200K is a big score for something in the 'hood. How will that set you up for your next move? Around here $200K would put you in a townhouse in a very good neighborhood in a good school district. $350K would put you in 2400sqft in a great area with awsome schools.
Yea the median home price here in Oakland is ~$625,000. Even with the $200,000 increase in price we would still be well under the median.
The house is small at 1200Sq Ft. a lot of the places in the neighborhood are bigger so I don't think adding the extra room will hurt us.
Skipping the attic is probably going to happen. It'll take us till late spring to get the room done and get the house staged for sale so we can't really do anything right away.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Hi Daniel,
I'm living and working in Oakland- specifically the Eastlake district- and have been involved in several remodels/sales in the past year.
In this area it's taking longer to sell but prices have not significantly fallen. Low interest rates seem to have helped create a "soft landing" rather than the bubble pop. However, the realtors I've spoken with all say that if you're going to sell do so sooner rather than later, and in spring/summer rather than fall/winter.
I think a 3 bedroom has much greater saleability than 2 bedrooms around here because there are not as many available. But as one realtor with a lot of experience told me this year, even though comps give you a general sense of the market almost every house is unique. He would say that it's impossible to state with any precision that putting in $30k now will bring back $40k when you sell in a year.
In my experience savvy buyers of Victorians are concerned about the following:
1. Electrical. The whole knob and tube thing. Sounds like you're covered here.
2. Plumbing. Galvanized pipes from the 1920s and 30s.
3. Foundation.
4. Insulation. Or the lack thereof.
5. Windows. The old double hung are drafty.
Just an opinion, for whatever it's worth. I'm curious where you're located. I'm mostly between 5th Ave to 14th Ave, from East 12th Street up to 580.
The house is located in West Oakland on 29th between West and MLK. I think that our two neighborhoods are different enough that its going to be hard to draw conclusions about them.
We already know that our house is the nicest in the area and has the nicest backyard and landscaping. Not sure how much directily those will effect the price but we are figuring that the square footage will set the price mostly and the condition of the place will make it sell faster while adding some to the price (we hope).
Heck we already have one buyer lined up for $500,000 if we finish the 3rd room and bath but I am not convinced how serious this person is. This is a friend of ours who has been looking in the area for a while and thinks the place is a steal at $500,000
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Beware the Zillow.com
If you are in a neighborhood with a low turnover rate the prices may not be anywhere near reality. Not too long ago there was an article at CNNMoney.com about a few realtors whp were considering suing Zillow for it's outdate estimates.
The house I just moved out of was the first step on the ladder of an excellent neighborhood with top notch schools. Becasue of that, the houses seemed to turn in "Generations" of about 5-6 years. Young couples moved in, had kids, hung around until mom went back to work and then moved to something bigger a few blocks away. I bought in for $100K. The first series of turnovers was about $135-$140K. A few months ago when we looked at Zillow it put the price of my home as well as all the others on my block between $135-$140K.
Problem was, two had sold for $180K or more and appraised for slightly more in the two months prior.
The house I'm in now is in a neighborhood that has had some turnover in the last year and Zillow was within about $10K of what it appraised for.
Hey, Daniel, where's the toxic waste dump and how did you find out about it? I know you live in the ghetto, 'cause I'm not that far from you. With the huge rise in crime in all of Oakland this year, and the loss of the dedicated PSO/team for our area to political shenanigans (we passed measure Y and they still can't manage to hire more cops or even keep a fingerprinting dept running? Sheesh), my fiance and I have been thinking about getting out of here, too.
Rebeccah
The old metal plating place is on 31st between Market and West. You do not want to be downstream from that place. The heavy metals have leached all the way into the ground water 25' below and are flowing out towards the ocean.
There was a neighborhood meeting (at the Y at Brockhurst and Market) about it that we got flyered for.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner