Replies

1. 
   DANL | Jun 16, 2005 02:52am | #1

   I agree with you--and you aren't the only one to have that problem. I retrofited my toilets with some oversized valves I got from a catalog and are glued on with silicone. The new valves worked for several (maybe going on five or six?) years. One toilet has started to run again occassionally due to water leaking past the valve and lowereing the level until the fill valve opens, but that stopped recently, so I'm just hoping for the best! Got the replacement valves from some home improvement catalog.

   Faucets on sink and shower are another story--the Deltas have to be rebuilt every year or so, but the pricey Grohe are a real disappointment. Of course, the previous owner, who installed them, didn't know what he was doing and that probably didn't help! (I think he bent the valve stem on the hot.)

1. 
   goldhiller | Jun 16, 2005 04:43am | #3

   I think Dan has your cure. Fluidmaster 555C Flush Fixer .....which contains a new drain seat.Odds are you're having problems because your drain seat is slightly pitted from corrosion. A few bucks, a few minutes and likely your problem is resolved.(Detach and remove the timing cup if you don't need it.)Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

1. 
   joekaye | Jun 16, 2005 04:00pm | #4

   Dear Y'all;

   Thanks for your feedback.  Danno: I'm glad to see I'm not the only crazy one with flush valve problems. As far as faucets go.... they all give lifetime warranties. I had a Standard that leaked every six months. Standard sent a new cartridge every time. Back to the flush valve, I'm not having corrosion problems with the seat. I generally start with a complete, new, all plastic valve and have problems. DanH:I'm familiar with the flusher fixer and I think it's great for your situation. I also think it's good if you don't want to get too involved and possibly get into trouble. For me, I've tried to do the right thing; like if I have to pull the whole bowl and tank any way and the guts look old, I figure why not replace everything in the tank to save future work/headaches.  And as I've said, I've seen multiple packets of contractor replacement flappers of such hard plastic they have to leak. With the plastics today, they should be able to make the seating areas of these valves pliable and long lasting. Sincerely, J.K.

    

1. 
   JTC1 | Jun 17, 2005 12:29am | #5

   DanH and Goldhiller have got it -- FluidMaster 555C.

   Don't care why they work, they just do -- for a long time.

   Jim

   Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.

1. 
   joekaye | Jun 17, 2005 05:31pm | #6

   Thanks, JTC1. I think maybe I will give this another look. J.K.

2. 
   DanH | Jun 16, 2005 04:12am | #2

   Our house came with Eljer toilets which has molded-in ceramic flush valve seats. Seems like a good idea at first, but the ceramic surfaces were left unglazed (rough) and the aren't flat. A flapper would last about 6 months before wearing out and beginning to leak.

   Discovered the Fluidmaster "Flusher Fixer" that is an assembly of a metal seat, pivot, and flapper. It attaches to the existing seat with something resembling plumber's putty. (Really quite secure, since water is pressing it down most of the time.) We're on our second one in about 25 years downstairs (had to replace the whole thing because they changed the pivot design and needed a new flapper). The upstairs unit has been in place for 20 years or so. The flappers last 5 years or better.

3. 
   Shacko | Jun 17, 2005 11:21pm | #7

   It looks like some of the posts have hit on the head, Fluidmaster Flusher-Fixer is the way to go.  If you want to try a new flapper again, when you install it pour some food coloring into the tank, wait a few minutes and see if the color comes into the bowl, if it does more than likely the seat is bad. [I do plumbing for a living and I became a fan of Fluidmaster in the 60's]. Lot of luck.

1. 
   joekaye | Jun 18, 2005 05:53pm | #8

   Dear Shacko;

   Thanks for your input. I do know about the food coloring method. I sometimes just shut off the water feed and wait to see if the water level drops. I always inspect the valve body/seat I don't just change the flapper. My conundrum has been when I change the whole dang valve for a new one and still have a leak. Sincerely, J.K.

1. 
   DanH | Jun 18, 2005 06:19pm | #9

   Don't forget that another potential path of "leakage" is siphoning through the fill valve and overflow tube.If the hose from the fill valve to the overflow tube terminates below the water level in the tank then you have the potential for siphoning to occur.

1. 
   RCovell | Jun 19, 2005 07:27am | #10

   Dan-
   I've run into this same sneaky problem a couple of times in 14 years. Something I watch out for now. For a good flapper, my current favorite is the Fluidmaster SuperFlapper. Nice plastic frame to keep things lined up, the hard plastic frame will not bind on the overflow pipe ears and the seal part is pliable rubber. The plastic chain floats so it doesn't get caught under the flapper if you leave it too long or have excess that doesn't get cut off. Bob.

1. 
   DanH | Jun 19, 2005 03:26pm | #12

   That plastic chain is my one gripe with the FluidMasters. It tends to tie itself in knots. I'd prefer the old bead chain.

2. 
   Shacko | Jun 19, 2005 01:26pm | #11

   The food clororing method lets you see a leak rapidly.  If you have a minute leak it may not show up for a long time visually without the coloring.  One of the other posts mentioned siphoning that should not be the problem, the ball cock should have a vaacum breaker on it. If you have one without a breaker on it, get one.  Thats a safety device! LOTS OF LUCK

1. 
   DanH | Jun 19, 2005 03:28pm | #13

   It's possible to have siphoning even with the vaccum breaker, depending on the overall design. And the vacuum breaker generally depends on the valve height being properly adjusted, which doesn't always happen.

1. 
   Shacko | Jun 19, 2005 04:56pm | #14

   In effect you don't have a vacuum breaker under those circumstances. The way I understand the post, the individual is sure his leakage is in the flush valve.  I did tell him how to be certain.  If its not in the flush valve, then we look for other problems. Thanks for the input, I've never run into that problem myself. HAVE A GOOD ONE1

2. 
   DanH | Jun 19, 2005 05:21pm | #15

   Granted, when the valve head is adjusted too low you don't have a vacuum breaker. But you can have an effective vacuum breaker and still have siphoning if the valve design is of a certain type.The way to assure that siphoning isn't the problem is to turn off the inlet supply, trip the flush valve slightly to lower the level visibly below the level of the fill hose end, and then mark the the tank level and let it sit for awhile. Simply using dye in a tank won't do it since dye can be siphoned as well as it can leak through the flush valve.One other odd case I once heard of was a case where the tank had a defect in the hole for the flush valve. Water leaked past the gasket and managed to find its way into the bowl.

3. 
   joekaye | Jun 20, 2005 01:46am | #18

   I did consider the possibility that water could be leaking under the flush valve to the tank, but when I've put some vasolene on the flush valve seat, the leak stopped. I could see this as a real problem with the one piece (tank/bowl) combos.

2. 
   joekaye | Jun 20, 2005 01:41am | #17

   I know my way is slow. I use it when I have the time; overnite or I'm going out and I won't need that toilet. Food coloring is fast, I agree.

4. 
   WillGeorge | Jun 19, 2005 09:20pm | #16

   I think it is not the valves.. But the uneaven surface of the TANK!.. I get a gasket that fits the valve.. INSIDE of the tank..

   Just me though...

1. 
   joekaye | Jun 20, 2005 01:47am | #19

   It's the valves-vasolene on the valve seat proves this.