Hi all, I live in a home that is ~40 yrs old with the original Crane toilets. Recently we started having a problem witht both of our toilets doing a slow flush.
We called in a sewer/plumber outfit to snake out the common vent for the two thrones. They are back to back in separate baths. Snaking out the vent didn’t seem to help so they snaked out the toilets as well with no improvement. They then tell me that water deposites have built up and interfere with the siphon jet that helps to direct the water to the back toward the siphone.
I don’t know if I believe this story because both are doing this where the water goes down it just nevet looks like that vacume that causes the siphon never gets the siphon going. As a result paper and “floaters” are a problem.
We realy don’t want to get rid of our old water wasters for a new low flush version. If water deposits are the problem can they be chemically treated or is there some other plumbing problem going on that is causing this.
Replies
That vent runs up and through the roof. I bet a bird or somethig got in there and is stopping it up. You know how if you dip a straw in a glass of water and hold your finger over the end of the straw and pull the it out of the water and the water stays in the straw until you let it open? Same pricipal. If I'm right I just saved you the cost two replacement toilets. Merry Christmas.
By the way, the plumber knows this ;o)
~ WebTrooper ~
"I was wrong once and it could happen again"
Viper
Just changed out my 30+ year old American Standard Low profile unit because the #### failed. The replacement part alone was over $100................so I invested in a new Kohler 1.6 gal flush.
When I put the American Standard (whole) into the 9 cy dumpster the trash man set it aside as "too big and heavy" to be compacted. So for the next trash pick-up I broke the stool into pieces...........and did a post mortem on the toilets internals.
The jet/siphon channel was 70% occluded with multiple layers if deposit. The rim drip channel was half clogged, and the trap throat was coated over with a rough deposit of mineral.............thus the reason over the last several years the Amer.Std was often a slow spinning double flush.
The new 1.6 is flushing very well, even with a 70's code stack vent of 1-1/2"!
..........................Iron Helix
Edited 12/23/2002 7:34:36 AM ET by Iron Helix
up under the rim are a whole series of little holes , these are the source of the flush water.. take a coat hanger and unbend it and REAM out all of the holes..
it may restore the initiating action for a better swirl and restore the old flushing abilities
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
One more item to check....
The flapper, which is suppose to stay floating up after it is raised for a flush,
can deteriorate and leak, causing it to drop back down too quickly after
you let go of the flush lever.
This causes less then a full tank of water to be dumped for the flush.
If you have to keep the flush lever depressed for the duration of the flush,
replace the flapper.
This is a very common and often overlooked item because the flapper
appears fine when inspected by just looking down in the tank.
try the coat hanger trick first cheap and easy.
We had a toilet that was borderline to begin with, but every 6 months or so I had to clean out the deposits. I did two things: one, pour a bunch of vinegar or other descaler type stuff in the bowl. Then, put on rubber gloves, and take a little wire brush like you use to clean your .303, and I would ream out the holes under the rim and also the siphon at the bottom.
That would keep it going for another six months, and then we sold the house!
I know I'll likely catch hell-fire for this but here it is anyway.
If the vent is indeed open and Wain's coat hanger trick doesn't work (it would be the safer and more preferred route to go for these holes)…….. I've dealt with some lime-plugged toilets over the years with the use of muriatic acid. It's not that I get a big charge out of doing this, but if the toilets had been changed out it would have meant installing a new flooring material because it had been cut up to the toilet and the footprint of any new toilet wouldn't match.
I've unplugged the ports under the lip by applying foil tape over the under-lip holes (dry the area off first) and then with the aid of a tall funnel stuck down the main flush hole, poured the muriatic in there to eat out the lime. MAKE CERTAIN that the room is well ventilated (forced with a fan out the window is best) and that you don't breathe any resulting vapors. About two minutes of exposure will likely be enough to do the trick. Then remove the tape (rubber gloves are in order here) and flush the toilet a couple of times. Don't spill any on yourself or anything else. Have a bucket of water and a sponge handy, just in case.
If a lime-clogged trap of the toilet is the culprit, it would require removal of the unit. Take it outside and then have a hose handy or a few buckets of water. Stand the toilet up as per normal in an appropriate location (acid will damage most anything it contacts) and pour the muriatic in there until the trap is full. Stand back, Jack, cause there's apt to be quite a cloud of vapor rolling out of there if lime/calcium deposits are present. A couple minutes should be sufficient and I've never been able to see any discernable damage to the glazing as a result. Then begin flushing with copious amount of water. I've had an unbelievable amount of lime chunks come falling out of there. Again, DO NOT breathe any of the vapors.
Although I've cured flushing problems with perhaps a dozen toilets via this method, my description does not constitute recommendation that you do it. There, I think that covers my behind.
Okay, I've got the chicken wire up, so start pitchin'.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 12/23/2002 12:32:42 PM ET by GOLDHILLER
Edited 12/23/2002 12:34:10 PM ET by GOLDHILLER
Also try some of the thickened acid type cleaning products that you can get from a janitorial supply house. Same chemical idea, but made gloppy so they stay where you brush them on. Also useful for the rest of the bathroom fixtures and kitchen sink.
-- J.S.
John,
For some reason, I haven't found find myself at a janitorial supply house for years. Good idea...... that I will remember.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
OK, after doing all of that and you still have a "slow" toilet, could it be that there is something in the toilet ??? Take it off, turn it over, and check and see if there is a pencil, kids toy or what ever that is blocking the hole in the toilet. Check both. All this will cost will be two new toilet rings.
Good luck, Ken
Ken,
Why didn't I think of that? I had a mess here one day after some friends and their kids left. Turned out the kids had dropped a bunch of quarters in the toilet, but you couldn't see them lodged in there at all. Come to think of it.........I wonder how many quarters went down the tubes?
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
I just reread this thread............my message (#3) for this post contained the correct term for the device that controls the flow of water into the toilet water tank.....and the CENSOR removed the term which causes the sentence I wrote to become difficult to understand. Why is the word B*A*L*L*C*O*C*K not allowed, when it even appears on the packaging for the replacement stool parts????
What about sill ####, or pet ####, or ball valves..............?
Maybe the "CENSOR" is ignorant of the subjects we discuss!
Maybe it is a brainless computer program that searches only certain combinations.
....................Iron Helix
>> Maybe the "CENSOR" is ignorant of the subjects we discuss!
You got that right.
>> Maybe it is a brainless computer program that searches only certain combinations.
A redundancy. All computer programs are brainless. Even some computer programmers are brainless.
At CooksTalk and Over the Fence they've had some success petitioning the board moderator to have specific words added to the list that the censor recognizes and allows. I believe the relevant e-mail address is [email protected]
I've run into this story 3 times; plumber at HD, my own 0ne year old potty & a daughter's ten yr old pot. My toilet stopped flushing after being installed for a yr. Had to use my best friend on it every time you flushed it. Took it out, checked everything external to pot - DWV, vent pipt. Matter of fact -= we had NO VENT stack at that point. No, it had not been inspected yet. Vent was about to be added. Added the vent, and it made no difference. Fast Fwd to HD plumber and long discussion about failing toilets. His had failed, and he replaced it after a ton of troubleshooting the house. Cracked it open and found a chunk of broken porcelein in the ring at the top that kept flush water from flowing. It had been loose since the toilet was built, and just not moved to the fatal location. The HD customer no -service folks conned American Standard into taking my toilet back after it had been installed for a yr. (It pays to be nice to those folks.) Got a new one free, and it has now been flushing successfully for nearly 4 yrs. Same well water, so probably not crusty garbage. We only have rust, no calcium.
Daughter had three toilets, all same make & model. One stopped flushing, other two worked fine. checked out the house systems, they all worked - no apparent plugs. Got a brilliant idea - had daughter put on rubber gloves and stick finger up the hole for the flush jet to check flow in all three toilets. Two had a strong jet; the failed toilet had no flow at all. Took toilet out into front yd, placed on 5 gal bucket; filled tank w/ hose and commenced to flush it several times. Son-in-law disappeared into housw, mutterting something about "...another father-daughter project," and being thankful it was after dark and the whole subdivision couldn't see the drama unfolding in the grass. New toilet solved all problems. She did not have calcium problems w/ city water, so we are at a loss to explain. Never did have guts to whack it w/ a hammer and generate a ton of porcelein shards.
I am now known as the family toilet expert, and consult over the phone to kids all over the country.
Interesting story - nice to know I don't ride a great white stallion & have a faithful indian companion...
DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
Thanks, Unc Dunc.................Merry Christmas, too!...............................Iron Helix
> Maybe it is a brainless computer program that searches only certain combinations.
Yes, that's exactly what it is. It once ##-ed over a reference I made to the Los Angeles community of H*a*n*c*o*c*k Park. That's a nice part of town, the official mayor's residence is even there. Perhaps the last four of those letters are a combination that should be taken off its no-no list.
-- J.S.