Ok here’s a novice framer question: Basically what tolerance if any is there to have a wall out of plumb?
The background story: renovating a bathroom, I’m retrofitting a 2×6 wall to a 2×4 wall, because the 2×4’s have been seriously damaged by previous retrofit of DWV pipe. I plan to hang a biga** 48″ medicine cabinet on it. I plan to leave the original 2x4s, some of the them have plaster on the back. The issue is that the original 2×4 wall is out of plumb (leaning back) by 3/16″ top to bottom. So I have the choice of:
– making the new 2x6s plumb or
– making the new 2x6s parallel to the 2x4s
Various things would be easier if I followed the studs of the original wall: drywalling the back of the wall, furring out with 2x material, …. But I worry about the negative effects especially on the medicine cabinet of being even slightly out of plumb.
If I’m parallel to the original studs, I’ll have vanity cabinets with a 1/16″ gap at the back, but that’ll be covered by a tile backsplash.
Replies
I'm not as expert with finish carpentry as some here, but 3/16" out of plumb doesn't seem too bad. At least it's leaning back, so stuff won't fall out of the cabinet. Maybe someone else has good ideas on what to do: I suppose the DWV is behind where you're putting the medicine cabinet, so you couldn't inlet the cabinet into the wall?
If you are furring the wall with 2x's, why not use shims to make it plumb? Are you putting the new 2x6 wall in front of the old 2x4 wall, or removing part of it and replacing with 2x6's?
Edited 9/25/2004 9:06 pm ET by Danno
Thanks all for the helpful feedback, I've been stuck in an echo chamber debating it with myself. I plan to leave the existing 2x4s and add 2x6s beside some of them; some of the 2x4s have plaster and lath attached on the back that I want to leave. The DWV pipe will be inside the wall and presumably oblivious to all of this. I guess as I think about it, it just seems like making the new 2x6s plumb will make it a nightmare of shimming (on the front for furring, on the back for DWing). "Split the difference" seems like the best approach.... This is a small 6' wide wall, it will only have room for cabinets so I won't have to worry about doors or windows, although at some point in its existence it had a doorway....
Edit: I used a plumb bob to figure out the difference between top and bottom plate. The bubble in the level is just within the lines so I guess the existing wall is technically within the margin of error....?
Edited 9/26/2004 6:54 am ET by Taylor
There's no reason that I can see why the two sides of the wall have to be parallel. Can't you space the 2x6s a little away from the back side so you can install them plumb, while still leaving the plaster on the back side in its original plane?
There's a space that used to have a doorway, where I'll have to DW both sides, and the surface on both sides will be the new 2x6s. Just as much of a PITA is on the front where the easiest way to bring the wall out in some places (where the DWV doesn't run) would be furring with 2x, but making the wall plumb now requires farting around with shims. I can't stick in 2x6s everywhere instead, I've got just enough straight 2x6s to reinforce the butchered 2x4s, and getting new KD 2x6s requires driving 70 miles....
Well, our builder had a level that was out 1/8" in four feet. (I kid you not -- EVERYTHING in the house is off by this amount.) It is frustrating at times but in general not all that noticeable. It only gets bad in the places where he flipped sides on the level and you get a 1/2" error in 8 feet between two surfaces.
So the error you describe is not critical.
Just be sure to take measurements in several places. Likely the wall is not flat or square with anything, and you may have to fudge several more things to achieve a "compromise".
For only a six foot wide wall, I'd probably rip it out and start over! (Easy to say, since it's not my job!) When I did framing, we always said a quarter inch over eight feet was okay.
Yeah ripping out is not an option....there's a closet retrofitted to the back of the wall, and I want to confine my mistakes to the back of that closet and not have anything telegraph through the plaster walls to the bedroom outside the closet....
Unless I'm missing something here I cant think of any reason to put a new wall in and install it out of plumb. Just add the new wall in plumb, is there a down side to this that I am missing?
Doug
This is a little subjective as far as questions go. I think the "national standard" put out by the NAHB is no more than 1/4 in an 8' wall, but try hanging a door in that. 3/16" is probably survivable. I think what you're saying is old meets new and is it better to make the new match the old or put it in plumb.
Frankly, you have the surface off the studs on the old. Split the difference and use shims to get the new DW into an even plane. You should have about 3/16" left.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
Are you using an 8' level or straight edge? 3/16 is pretty good IMO.........you're working (probably) with studs that are not perfectly straight anyways............
You can be too anal in remodeling..........the eye is very important when mixing and matching .......rule #1 When the job is finished it must look like you planned it and it must look good.