I’m interested in tools policies – how do you contractors out there handle the issue of employees using their own tools? Do you provide all tools? Do you expect employees to provide all their own tools? Most of you have something in between, I suspect. Do you differentiate between a worker providing tools for themself only and supplying tools that other workers may use?
Extra question for Canadian posters: is there a way of compensating employees for tools without it being viewed as taxable income? Simply adding a few bucks an hour to the guy’s wage just ends up costing the employer more in payroll deductions.
Lignum est bonum.
Replies
In the carpenter's union, all power tools are provided by the contractor. The carpenters as well as carpenter apprentices provide their own hand tools. Upon begging an apprenticeship, apprentices are given a list of about 40 tools they're expected to have. However, most apprentices only purchase the hand tools they need for the job they're doing at the time. Basically, the way it works is, you either have enough hand tools to get the job done, or you get laid off and they hire someone who can.
-T
The outfit I work for is growing fast and can't or won't keep up with tools. I've just started an exterior trim project that requires finish nailer, brad nailer, mitre saw, router, hammer drill, table saw, planer, sander etc etc. The company doesn't have enough tools and they are really stretched for people and time. I haven't been asked directly, but if I don't use my own stuff then they will have to rent virtually everything for about 3 weeks. I've been pushing for some kind of written tool policy for some time, but now it needs to be addressed. The kicker for me is I have an apprentice who will also be using the tools and I know he's pretty hard on stuff, mostly inexperience but still there'll be some pretty hard use. It's one thing to bring tools for oneself, but another altogether to provide tools for other workers.
I went to the rental centre and got prices on all the stuff needed. Rented on a monthly basis, it adds up to $1800 plus taxes, and they don't rent table saws (Too much damage...) So my question is, how much is reasonable to ask for as compensation if I use my own tools? I figure I don't have the same overheads and profit motives as a rental centre so half that figure is about right. That still seems like a lot of money, the boss is going to quickly calculate that out as almost $6 an hour and have a hissy fit, hence my interest in ways of keeping it out of payroll and at least avoiding the employer burden on this additional payment.
Lignum est bonum.
>>> but if I don't use my own stuff then they will have to rent virtually everything for about 3 weeks.>>the boss is going to quickly calculate that out as almost $6 an hour and have a hissy fit, It seems that this is one profession where employers put up ahelp wanted add and tell you to send pictures of your tools/truck.Did you hire on knowing that you would have to be supplying yourown tools? If your sub-contracting I think it is a no brainer thatyou would be required to supply these tools....but as an employeeI really think you should be compensated some way...but how much I haven't a clue. Or you could tell your boss you got robbed andnot bring your tools and see what happens.As a side note, the co. I work for supplies everything, includinghand tools.
If a boss approached me, I would ask for 40% (or so) of the value of the tools if purchased new as a tool allowance, and I would retain ownership.
We would work out some type of tool allowance per hour, and the boss' 40% share would be in the form of an advance on that or I would be paid outright. A dollar or so an hour would be enough for me if the tool requirement was the "basics" and maintenance.
That's where I would start- but that is only if the boss seemed to be open to it. Some figure if you have the stuff, yet refuse to use it without compensation- then you are a goner. Been there.
Does the company have all the tools you mentioned, but just not enough to outfit more than one crew? I think that is what you are saying, but not sure.
I have been in similar situations a few times. Without hesitation I have ask for a fixed dollar amount, based on the number,type, and length of time the needed tools will be used. Breakage is an additional 100% replacement charge. No negotiation allowed. We agree to terms or the tools stay in my shop or truck and his job sets idle untill he provides the tools.
A guy who bids a job knowing he doesn't have the equipment to do the job is over reaching. You provide the third leg to hold him up for what? Wages? That is not enough. You just invested your after tax money in his business and he profits from your "goodwill". You wouldn't invest money in any business without some expectation of a return on your investment, but because you make you living from this guy you will for him?
Tell him to pay or provide the tools. His job, his profit, his problem!
Dave
I'm from Alberta and carpenters are expected to provide their own hand tools. Tape, hammer, pouch, level, square, chisels, screwdrivers, etc, etc.
Anything power tools or special hand tools (sledge hammer, pry bars, etc), the employer should provide.
I would only compensate for a tool broken on the job. If a tape breaks, give the guy a new one. Most hand tools should last for a long time.
I ask guys to use their own hand tools, and I provide everything else. No point in dealing with someone's feelings about how their saw burned up on your job. Occasionally I have someone who has all their own stuff and really wants to use it and really doesn't have any issue about it--then I say go for it. I still provide lights, ladders, hoses, cords, all the boring stuff that gets broken and worn out.
I'm relatively small so its just me and a helper, and I supply all the tools. My subs bring their own, but I know them and trust them enough that if they need one for a minute, i'm cool with it.
I supply all the tools except hand tools that are suppopsed to be in a tool pouch.
If someone doesn't want to use my wormdrives they can bring their own sidewinder (crybabys) and I supply the blades for their saw.
I don't expect my guys to, but one has started to bring a stick framing gun saying that my coil guns are to heavy for him with a roll of 16's in it.
Can't you hear the violin playing your song.
Here in northern AZ, no non union company supplies any power tools. If you've got a framing gun, saw, sawzall, level, cords, hoses, etc., you can get a job at $14-16/hr. If all you have is your bags and hand tools, you get $10-12 and grunt around for the guys that have their own stuff. It's amazing how the job market can place such a burden on a guy making $350 a week.
Made the deal today. $3/hr or actually $500/month as they will be paying me a separate cheque shown as 'tool rental'. I declare it as income and pay fed tax but no pension, UI or compo deductions on it for me or the company. Plus retroactive for a few weeks as apprentices have been using my tools for a while.
Although only a quarter of what it would cost to rent on the open market, I also realise that this figure would be enough to replace everything over the course of a year. The actual cost of rentals is not really a big deal to them, they pass on retal charges directly to customers. The market is so hectic here that they no longer bid projects, they just run them on a management fee basis. So having higher or lower tool costs doesn't really concern them at this time. (It might when things slow down one of these days, probably after the Olympics).
Lignum est bonum.
as an employee i would prefer to use all my own hand and power tools (specialty tools not included in this). there better, safer, avail when i need it.
as an employer i would rather not have to deal with maintenence, theft, who broke this, high cost of rentals, job slow downs because of any of the above ect.
as an employee a $2-3000 a year will keep me in a nice stock of tools
as an employer a few grand extra will pay for itself in production.
i have a question for all ya all.
do you charge for circ saw blades, drill bits, sawzall blades screw bits. ect... as material because there disposable? or do you buy them as tools?
Tmaxxx
Urban Workshop Ltd
Vancouver B.C.
cheers. Ill buy.
Those are supplies in my scheme of things... expendables.
blades, bits, abrasives, wire brushes, other things with short life spans all get dropped in "consumables" for me.
I've heard things for estimating tool overhead. Some people say you should charge assuming a complete replacement of all tools every few years- do you guys quantify it like that, or do you estimate from prior experience how much you'll need to charge?zak
"so it goes"
"I declare it as income and pay fed tax."
You should be able to deduct the cost of the tools off that as an expense, I think. It would be worth asking your tax guy about it.
According to my calculations, the problem doesn't exist.
"You should be able to deduct the cost of the tools off that as an expense, I think. It would be worth asking your tax guy about it."Not in #$%^ Canada. Every other decent country I've lived in allows tools as a deduction for payroll employees, but not here. One more reason why I'll be going on my own next year. Hopefully this tool allowance I've just been given, oops, tool rental, does indeed prove to be allowable as non taxable reimbursement.Lignum est bonum.