Hi, I have a question about house wraps. I’m not going to be using it in the traditional manner though.
I’m building a tree house for my daughters and am concerned about bugs. I’m just about finished with the framing of the floor framing. I want to put on 5/4 x 4″ preasure treated flooring. I’m concerned about the bugs/spiders living under the flooring between the joists and coming up through it when the kids are playing. Especialy if they were sleeping in it.
There are some really nasty spiders ( brown recluse ) and other bugs I don’t want my kids to have to deal with.
So. What kind of house wrap could I put between the framing and the flooring that will hold up to some UV and stuff falling through the cracks?
I could flea bomb it once in while but it would still be nice to have something there.
Replies
My more immediate concern would be my kids playing directly on the PT flooring.
Could Ipaint over them? I can't build in this climate with out them being treated and I'm not going to spend a fortune trying to get some other "safe " material.
So how about paint?
That stuff usually has a very high moisture content so you may have problems with paint adhering well until it dries out some. But I would think a couple of good coats of heavy paint would be sufficient. Ditto on the window screening. It can also just be stapled to the bottom of the joists.Formerly just 'Don' but not the 'Glassmaster Don' or the lower-case 'don'.
" I can't build in this climate with out them being treated"
What's the climate got to do with it? A tree house, up in the air with circulation under it and a roof over it - this deck will never see enough water to make it rot, especially if you paint it.
you can also treat yourself with borates - boracare products - that are inert and non toxic to all mammals.
And even if you got a bit of rot in a corner or someplace - the girls will be grown and gone before that happens.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I was thinking of the fiberglass cloth used to reinforce resin when making things of "fiberglas". Can get woven or unwoven. I'd think either would hold up well and allow flow of air, but still keep bugs out. I'd probably streatch it over the joists, then put my deck boards over it and nail through to the joists. Don't know if you can buy small rolls or partial rolls of house wrap. Guess that would work too, but don't know about UV and tearing. Roofing felt (tar paper) is another possibility, though it might tear more easily.
Paint or heavy bodied stain should give some protection against contact with the treated boards (ACQ?). Could also put carpeting over the deck, but that would probably get mildewed and dirty pretty quickly--and may harbor bugs.
Fiberglass window screen ..it'll last they outgrow the fun of it.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
You're a smart boy with a good memory. Wasn't there a thread here about the guy building a deck or steps...........the guy?..............I think it might have been cag, now that I think about it. I wouldn't be getting in kid contact with that stuff. Hell, one of the reasons they outlawed the old, not as corrosive stuff, was because of skin contact with kids.
Should autta use composite or something. What the hecks the house built out of I'm wondering.
Then shoot yeah, might as well bomb the place every so often. Me, I'd sooner learn about spiders. But hey, here's a welcome to the guy anyway.
Shoulda gone to columbus.
But I digress.........Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I sorta remember that..but I agree, that a composite would be better..just left it to everyone else to tell him.
I wish I coulda gone, but I am SO busy..even with all the rain, I have inside work to catch up on..(notice the nights are getting chilly, I DO....lol, still no heat or final hole patching)
Looks like y'all had fun and got back alive..a miracle.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Thanks! The fiberglass window screen sounds good. I'll check the prices of the composite. Isn't it pretty expensive? Any way I'll check. It would be a better floor.
By the way I've heard of brown recluse bite that went untreated eating holes right into your body. I can't remember for sure but it got gangreen and infected the whole limb. We have them all over the place here. Grasshoppers eat whole areas of fields. This isn't a very outside friendly place but we are doing the best we can for the duration. If my wifes job goes away I will be wanting to move.
By the way although you guys have been helpfull, It hasn't been a pleasure.
Who do you think you are? If you aren't courteous, what are you?
Edited 9/18/2004 9:37 pm ET by david
david, I apologise if in fact you mistook my post as being unfriendly etc.
But david, you've been here awhile. I would have assumed you could cut through the #### and "understand" the way it was meant.........you know, good natured banter.
Best of luck on your project.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
If calvin is rude, I am the devil himself
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I knew it.
I told smitty my suspicions, he said no way.
Head for the hills!Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
...It hasn't been a pleasure. Who do you think you are? If you aren't courteous, what are you?
We are people who know what you apparantly do not: that poisoning your kids with PT lumber and chemical bug bombs in close quarters is an ignorant, dangerous, and unnecessary thing to do. Nobody was rude to you. The information offered you was given under the assumption that if you were intelligent enough to build a tree house in the first place, you probably didn't have to be spoon fed things that most people who occasionally swing hammers have long since learned.
Apparently that assumption was optimistic.
And by the way, you are not the only person in the world who ever had to deal with some of Mother Nature's creatures. The Brown or Violin Spider, loxosceles reclusa, which is incorrectly but commonly called the Brown Recluse, has a range from the southeast through the south central portion of the United States. It is not found west of the TX/NM border, but that still leaves somewhere in the vicinity of 20-30 million people living in areas inhabited by it.
The bite of this spider can produce what is called 'necrotic arachnidism', a phenomenon that destroys tissue in the area surrounding the bite. If the victim is taken to hospital within 8 hours of being bitten, surgical excision of the site can be accomplished before the blister becomes too large if the bite can be verified as having been from loxosceles reclusa. For this reason, the spider inflicting the bite must be captured and taken to hospital for identification. In that spiders tend to cling to the site of the bite, capture intact should be possible. (If no spider is found, it probably means the bite was inflicted by some other arachnid, such as a bedbug.) Treatment with corticosteroids is sometimes administered; intramuscular injection of Dexamethasone is one recommended program. Others include hydrocortisone or dapsone, but nothing is very satisfactory.
In any event, PT lumber, fibreglas matting, or window screening in the floor won't keep those spiders away from your children. As one other poster pointed out, it is difficult if not impossible to keep them out of your house, let alone a treehouse. The childrens' best defense would be training to recognize the spider and learning how to avoid places it would normally be found. A local public health officer or the natural history museum might be good places to look for such information.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
And it's unlikely that loxosceles reclusa will set up shop in a treehouse.
By the way I've heard of brown recluse bite that went untreated eating holes right into your body
The BR bite is hard to notice, IIRC, the venom has a nerve deadening or blocking agent. Again, IIRC, they often go untreated because they are un-noticed. Depending on how much venom is injected and the thickness of the skin layer, all BR bites have a necrotic ulcer (a semi-spheriodial mass of dead cells) at the bite site. If the necrosis is not treated, the ulcer can enlarge, leaving a less-than picturesque "hole" in one's skin.
Best treatment is prevention. BR's like debris, like leaf litter and the like. Clearing that out of play areas is a good way to not get bitten. If you are raking leaves, it's good to rake them to one spot and let them sit a bit. That allows any unintended passengers to sort out which way is up and decamp for quieter locations.
Wow, found the site I was thinking of on the very first google ("brown recluse" bite prevention) hit :
http://www.emedicine.com/aaem/topic412.htm#target3Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
The chemical from the bug bombs and the PT lumber is going to be far more of a hazard to the children than the spiders are. Use plywood for the decking and paint it or use in/out carpeting.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
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Either window screen or landscape fabric.
I don't think there is a thing that will keep spiders out of your house let alone a tree house. All you can do is find a spray poison that is very mild and last long enough between application
unless U are using t and G flooring ...
gaps are gonna happen ...
especially with PT decking ...
and no matter what U out under the decking ...
the bugs will get down there from the top ...
thru the gaps.
then ... they'll just live on the top of the screening or what ever is supposed to keep them out.
what about when the kids walk thru the yard to get to the tree?
what ebout when the climb the tree ...
how ya gonna bug proof the rest of the world?
I'd bet you made it thru life so far without having a bug proofed childhood.
Just build the thing and let the kids play ...
btw ... there was a tree house thread a coupla years ago ... we decided ..
it's not an official tree house unless the materials are scavanged by the kids from somewhere .. and the adults do little more than every now and they say ... that doesn't look safe. The kids are 'spoda build the tree houses themselves ...
leave them one old rusty hammer with one broken claw ...
that's to whack the spiders with ....
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Someday all the old, beat up hammers will be titanium and won't be rusty....
I visited the place where I grew up about a year ago. I was shocked to find that one of my old tree forts (built up in an old Yew tree out of odds and ends of scrap lumber) was still intact after 45 years!
what 45 years and no pressure treated! tells you alot about the wood we use today don't it. i noticed at hd today there pt 2x4's had growth rings that were 1/4- 3/8 wide, what kinda steriods do they feed these trees to make them grow that fast? larry
it's not steroids, it's called sunlight. New growth in a place that had been logged of overstory, let's the youngins reach for the sun at amazing rates. The "older wood" had less light from the shade above, and grew slower.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
True, bro...but the tree farmers up here load 'em up with chemical fertilizers, too. The guvmint pays fer it. They're cutting red pine stands that were planted less than 40 years ago; some less than 30 years ago.
Further up north, where jackpine rules, they cut 'em as soon as the butt is over 8 inches. That's the sh!t that goes into the PT tanks. Why all poisoned wood is so knarly and twisty and just plain useless....
I tried to special order some 5/4 R.E.D. spruce a couple of years ago for a client who didn't want his granddaughter getting arsenic-charged splinters in her tootsies; the local mill told me it'd take six months because they had orders for 27 million board feet of the stuff to ship to a big PT outfit. I asked 'em if they thought their big client would really miss 450 linear feet of 1¼x6 out of 43 million....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Edited 9/19/2004 11:01 pm ET by Dinosaur
I've seen it first hand. I have a lot of fruit trees planted around, but there were also several beautiful maples and birches I couldn't bear to cut down just yet.
So - after palnting all same size and same time, I now ( about four years later) have some that are twenty feet tall and others that are still crotch high. The only diff I can see is the amt of direct sunlight feeding them.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Up to a few years ago, at my pop's place where I grew up at, there were two sheds out back about 6 foot apart.
The one shed's outside walls were covered with tarpaper and as an 8 year old with the neighbor buddy we had put are hands in mud and made handprints on the tarpaper walls of the shed and wrote 1963 with mud beneath them.
Apparently the shelter of the other shed helped keep enough of the weather off it and if one looked closely you could still see the outlines and read the date on up till the late 90s.
No charge for that, just thought it interesting. work slow, work free, live long....huh?
Consider landscape fabric. The spun kind. Tough, and easy to work with.
Sorry some of our replies rubbed you the wrong way. The new pressure treated wood is suposed to be virtually harmless, isn't that why we had to change over to it (from CAA to ACQ)? If we switch to the ACQ because it's so safe, what's the worry? I'm not trying to be a smart Alec, really am wondering. May be nothing to be concerned about as far as kids touching this material--as long as they're not like gnawing on it or something!
There was a thread here, I wish I could point you to it. In effect it said a red rash appeared on the knees of someone (maybe cag) working on some acq stairs. Another respondent complained of rash from the sawdust. There you go, completely safe. Read the handling instructions on the MSD sheet b/4 you make a final decision.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I think I read the thread about the rash, but that was fresh (and still moist?) ACQ. I thought once it was thouroughly dry it would be okay. Guess you don't really want to risk kid's health on it. Guess paint is the answer.
more to it than just paint. There's been a surplus of threads and articles about how this nerw P{T corrodes fasteners unless double hot dipped galvanized or SS.
So we build a treehouse out of PT and how bad do the girls get hurt when it falls apart from totally corroded fasteners in the joints in five years? Paint won't hold a joint together very well.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I thought he was just using PT for the deck boards only, not the support structure, but point well taken--even if the deck boards come loose, not a good situation (especially in a tree house several feet off the ground).
I was one of those. My thighs soaked up enopugh to get a heat prickly rash from sliding and handling 2x10 PT for a couple weeks. I think I have had more bad reactions from a year of the new PT than from thirty years of the old. I'm pissed 'cause it's another case of fixing something that wasn't broken and then crearting a problem in the process.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=43368.1
hey, just re-read that thread, I've been told they put my post in the magazine, did they put my comment about the idiot at the EPA in there?
Well, if I had to put money on it...
it'd be like betting Arizona was going to be in the Superbowl this year.
I dont know what's worse. The certain leaching of chemicals from the PT decking and exposure to insecticides or the remote possibility of a spider bite.