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I’m remodeling a garage/guest house and need some more circuits, so instead of screwing around, we’re just going to pull a some 8 ga. for a 60 amp sub panel. The homeowner wants phones, alarm wires, etc as well, and I’m a little concerned about placing this stuff in the same conduit or maybe the same trench. Several questions:
1. What wires should we pull. Sure a couple 4 conducter phone wires, alarm, maybe and RJ45 for shits and grins. Anything else? Co-Ax?
2. What about interference with the 60 amp? In the same conduit? Separate conduit, in same trench? Separated, but how far?
Thanks in advance for all who reply.
Replies
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Boris,
For 60 amps I would use #6.
*Use a seperate conduit for the low voltage stuff preferably 12" away or more. They can almost touch without interferance problems if one or both are metal. Don't forget to leave in a pull rope for when you remember what cable you should have put in.
*And an extra 12-3 for exterior lights on a 3 way switch.
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Boris,
Don't use 4-conductor phone wire (I assume you're talking about JK station cable or station D wire, the red-green-yellow-black stuff?). Don't use that stuff, except as bell wire.
Use 4-pair unsheilded twisted pair (UTP), either cat 3 (if voice service only)or cat 5 (if the owner thinks s/he'll ever use a modem at the far end or link to a house LAN).
If I was doing this job, I'd keep at least 16" separation (if you're using PVC conduit). If you put the power in PVC and the other wiring in metallic couduit, you can put the conduits basically on top of each other with no problem.
I second Steve's suggestion...you need #6 copper (or bigger, if the distance is more than 60 ft one way).
More unsolicited advice ( and excuse me if you're already got a bead on this...): because you've got metallic paths from house to outbuilding (wires and pipes), Code requires you to run an equipment grounding conductor (in addn to the hots and neutral) to the subpanel (which has to have separate neutral and ground bars). And you need a ground rod at the subpanel, too.
Regards.
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To repeat: #6 copper for 60 amps and 4 conductors, two hots, neutral and ground. Do not bond ( connect together ) the neutral and ground at the subpanel. You must have a neutral terminal bar and a ground terminal bar.
Frank
*Great Post, and good answers.Here in SoCal, not only does the subpanel have to have a ground from the house (to the earth and to a water main 4' from entry into home), the subpanel has to be separately grounded to earth.Interesting stuff about the two types of conduit in the same trench, I didn't know that.
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Scooter--
My point about the diff types of conduit is based on the fact that if one is metallic, it will act as a shield against the EMF radiated by the AC conductors. Because the phone and other signalling wires will require the smaller pipe, I suggested that they go in the metallic raceway (IMC with compression fittings, preferrably, EMT as a poor second choice, because of its lack of resistance to corrosion).
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Good info.
My 2cents. Here is a nifty voltage drop calculator.
http://www.mikeholt.com/volt_drop.html
As you can see, #6 is good for 61.023 feet with a 3% drop at 120 volts running 60 amps.
#4 will get you to 97 feet.
You can also drop down the grounding conductor by 2 wire sizes (ie if you pull 3 #6 conductors, the ground can be #10). If you use #4, then the ground must be #8 or thicker.
I'd just put in a 3/4 or 1" conduit for all the low voltage stuff, and pull what you need later. Heck, I've added CATV and Cat 5 wiring to my old telephone lines to the barn 3 years after I built it - smiling at the conduit the whole time.
And you thought it was an easy question...
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Great information, now some variations on a theme.
I'm considering running buried #6 (?) aluminum wire and a pvc water line about 1/3 of a mile to some creekfront property. I just want to be able to power some lights. No way to get municipal service down there ... it floods on occasion, and they won't run unless there's a dwelling.
How much voltage drop will I experience, and how much pressure drop in the water line with 3/4 pvc ?
No obstacles, it's a straight run through the pecan grove. I plan to run along the fence line, about 30" deep.
Thanks in advance.
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Do what I did. Set an 'RV' pole. They have all the specs you need at the utility company. Do it all by yourself like I did, or go to a local electrical contractor and ask him/her to set one for you.
You should not have to actualy have an RV there, just tell them you are planning on bringing one in.
I have 200 amp service. I am allowed to run the service further up the hill if I wish to do so.
Once the RV pole has been set, and passes the utility company's inspection, they will come out and do the strike for you. (Run the electicity from the street to the pole for you, and connect it.) There is usualy a distance limit, after which they start charging you by the foot. There are also clearance issues that have to be addressed.
*Cool. No problem. With #6 aluminum you can get 1.5 light bulbs(100W each). (Check out the earlier post with the voltage drop calculator.)You'll have NO pressure drop in the water line - until you turn on the faucet.Both questions are basically the same: electrcial current is water flow, pressure drop is voltage drop.I imagine that the 3/4 PVC would let you wash dishes under a moderate trickle. But that's just a guess. Given the cost of trenching, I'd throw 2" in the hole.What you might do is see how far you could get a pole mounted service to a spot that doesn't flood. Use Luka's suggestion on an RV location. You can then run smaller stuff to the creek.
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Do you by chance mean 3/4" PE black plastic pipe sold in a roll?
I ran about 800 feet of 3/4" line and had no noticeable loss of flow, even for "high flow" things like washing a car or filling buckets. I also have a place where I have 500 feet of that black PE pipe coiled up lying in the sun as a sort of makeshift solar heater. I haven't noticed any loss of flow there, either. Unless you're planning to use the water to supply a full size house, I don't think you'll have any trouble.
The voltage drop will be your problem.
Good luck...
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I'm remodeling a garage/guest house and need some more circuits, so instead of screwing around, we're just going to pull a some 8 ga. for a 60 amp sub panel. The homeowner wants phones, alarm wires, etc as well, and I'm a little concerned about placing this stuff in the same conduit or maybe the same trench. Several questions:
1. What wires should we pull. Sure a couple 4 conducter phone wires, alarm, maybe and RJ45 for shits and grins. Anything else? Co-Ax?
2. What about interference with the 60 amp? In the same conduit? Separate conduit, in same trench? Separated, but how far?
Thanks in advance for all who reply.
*
Don't forget to put some kind of a marker in the trench so that the next guy with a back-hoe will know what kind of expensive stuff he just dug up. I assume that the 2" plastic ribbon (tape?) would do the job - even saw some that said "danger - water line" on it.
Might want a mark on the wall where the trench starts so that you can find it someday when it is all grown over with weeds.